ASL vs Oral in Education

[Nesmuth]

What I see is www.oraldeafed.org producing and passing out free videos, glossy brochures, and books to people especially parents of deaf kids promoting the use of oralism in education. They are spending millions and millions of dollars promoting oralism in education of young deaf people.

What I dont see is anyone producing the same media promoting ASL in education of the young deaf people. Can someone tell me why there is nothing out there that I can obtain free of cost and distributing it out to parents of young deaf kids promoting ASL in education?

Richard

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Richard-

What I dont see is anyone producing the same media promoting ASL in education of the young deaf people. Can someone tell me why there is nothing out there that I can obtain free of cost and distributing it out to parents of young deaf kids promoting ASL in education?

Maybe you can visit ASLRose? While they don't appear to have anything yet, that may change in the future.

Part of the answer lies in the fact that using 'ASL' isn't considered 'sexy' as would be trying to make 'miracles' with children speaking. The romantic notion of Deaf children speaking really holds considerable sway among the Hearing community and is a hard one to counter.

 

[deafdyke]

And there's ALSO the fact that there's a lot of money in going oral only.
The kids need speech therapists, access to good quality health care, CIs,hearing aids etc......wheras ASL really doesn't have a way for hearies to make money off of it.

 

[vfr]

again

as i said before.. i know people born deaf, and after lots of hard work the read,write,and TALK 5 or more languages..
being able to talk ,even witha weird voice will make your life much easier,even is it saying" one please" at ticket booth.

 

[deafdyke]

VFR, I am NOT bashing speech. As someone who is hoh, I am incredbily grateful for speech skills. Speech is a great survival skill. However, many of the people who push oralism are INCREDIBLY audist about it, and they look down on sign. (oh only kids who can't speak should learn Sign)

 

[vfr]

got it

those people need to have theirs plugged up ,then be pushed into a mall and be told to go buy a brown pair of jeans..then be pushed into gally cafeteria..and see every body signing..

 

[Teresh]

those people need to have theirs plugged up ,then be pushed into a mall and be told to go buy a brown pair of jeans..then be pushed into gally cafeteria..and see every body signing..

We could lock them in the LBJ building at NTID. That building is one confusing maze of passageways (I've gotten lost more than once >> ). Better yet, we could lock the main and secondary entrances.

 

[Casperman]

oral vs asl

i had serval good debates on that issues with my kids grandparents.. myself from a big strong deaf family but other side hearing family and they asked me why my boys not learn speech and wanna them to learn speech and i simply reply why cant yall learn signs as well.... bec hearing members of my moms and dads family know signs... i think thats fair if hearing try force Deafies learn oral then we shall force hearies learn signs

really oral vs ASL been in debates since Abe Grahman Bell vs Edward Miner Galladuet back in 1800s

 

[vfr]

work

how many deaf people who sign only work in high paying jobs not conected to the deaf world?
i know deaf talkers that are stock brokers and business owners,high paid chef at a 5 star restruant,a assiant coach for a pro foot ball team....and bunch more... but i have yet to meet some who is asl only meet the same level.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Casperman--You actually raise an interesting point. I know of school districts that require all students to be exposed to languages like Spanish, French, and German even if they do not continue those courses in high school. Why is this not done with ASL, considering that it's more common in the U.S. than French or German? It would seem reasonable to me, and I would have appreciated the opportunity.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

Why is this not done with ASL, considering that it's more common in the U.S. than French or German? It would seem reasonable to me, and I would have appreciated the opportunity.

While I'm all for more ASL classes and awareness, I'm not so sure if ASL should be offered as a part of the foreign language requirement for a high school education. An elective would make more sense, I guess.

Part of my reason is based on my experiences as an ASL teacher, having taught high school classes. By large, hearing students do not seem to want to learn about ASL and Deaf culture. Granted, if they were in other foreign language classes, they probably would hold similiar attitudes about French or Italian languages.

Gotta admit that the few hearing students who do want to learn ASL makes high school teaching all that worthwhile!

 

[Rose Immortal]

Eyeth--My bad, I didn't explain the kind of program I was thinking of.

Also, please understand I'm just a 22 year old hearing student who didn't get the chance to take ASL. (I was already taking 2 foreign languages in high school and had no room in my schedule for more, even though I would do languages all day if I could get away with it!) In other words, I don't presume to have the kind of experience and authority you do. I speak only from the experience of a student who loves languages in all shapes and sizes, so please don't be upset with me for this...

In one very good middle school I know of, 8th graders spent time for a quarter exposed to 4 foreign languages. In their case I think it was Spanish, French, German, and Latin. These were the same 4 courses then offered in the high schools. That same district had a 3-year foreign language requirement for ALL students. The idea of this program was to help these children decide which of the 4 languages they wanted to take in high school, since they had to have one.

I guess my line of reasoning is, since a district like this is MAKING all of their students take a foreign language anyway (so all of the disinterested folks are stuck in a language class for 3 years whether they like it or not), why not offer them another option that's going to be as useful in this country as Spanish? Even if only a few signs or cultural lessons actually stick from that introduction, that's way better than the ZERO they probably had before.

 

[shel90]

how many deaf people who sign only work in high paying jobs not conected to the deaf world?
i know deaf talkers that are stock brokers and business owners,high paid chef at a 5 star restruant,a assiant coach for a pro foot ball team....and bunch more... but i have yet to meet some who is asl only meet the same level.

Yea, I have noticed that too..it is sad cuz deaf people without oral skills are capable of doing all those things with some accodomations.

My husband told me that many companies would rather hire deaf people who have oral skills than a deaf person with no oral skills due to the cost of interpreting. What these companies fail to realize that many deaf people with oral skills still need terps to recieve information.

 

[deafskeptic]

Yea, I have noticed that too..it is sad cuz deaf people without oral skills are capable of doing all those things with some accodomations.

My husband told me that many companies would rather hire deaf people who have oral skills than a deaf person with no oral skills due to the cost of interpreting. What these companies fail to realize that many deaf people with oral skills still need terps to recieve information.

Indeed. I haven't forgotten how my boss from my job would complain about accomadations that she had to make for me even though I've excellent oral skills. *News Flash* Oral skills doesn't always equal no need for terps.

 

[Tousi]

Yeah, this is why the ADA can be a double-edged sword.

 

[Interpretrator]

While I'm all for more ASL classes and awareness, I'm not so sure if ASL should be offered as a part of the foreign language requirement for a high school education. An elective would make more sense, I guess.

Part of my reason is based on my experiences as an ASL teacher, having taught high school classes. By large, hearing students do not seem to want to learn about ASL and Deaf culture.

I have to disagree with you here. I think ASL should absolutely be offered in high schools as an option for the foreign language requirement. French, German, and Spanish are all very well, but in many parts of the country, students may never end up using the languages at all. Spanish is probably the major exception (depending on where you live), but except for isolated pockets of the country, German and French are really only useful if you're going overseas. However, ASL is a major language used all over the U.S.

And if more students had the option to be exposed to ASL in high school, perhaps more would be motivated to continue to learn about ASL and Deaf culture.

Granted, if they were in other foreign language classes, they probably would hold similiar attitudes about French or Italian languages.

Exactly! There will be those who are only taking the bare minimum they need to pass no matter what language it is. They'll probably forget all the French or ASL they learn and won't benefit from it. But I don't think this is a reason to exclude ASL as a possibility for students to learn. Because as you said, if there are one or two students who really love the language and culture and go on to study it further, isn't that worth it?

 

[shel90]

I have to disagree with you here. I think ASL should absolutely be offered in high schools as an option for the foreign language requirement. French, German, and Spanish are all very well, but in many parts of the country, students may never end up using the languages at all. Spanish is probably the major exception (depending on where you live), but except for isolated pockets of the country, German and French are really only useful if you're going overseas. However, ASL is a major language used all over the U.S.

And if more students had the option to be exposed to ASL in high school, perhaps more would be motivated to continue to learn about ASL and Deaf culture.



Exactly! There will be those who are only taking the bare minimum they need to pass no matter what language it is. They'll probably forget all the French or ASL they learn and won't benefit from it. But I don't think this is a reason to exclude ASL as a possibility for students to learn. Because as you said, if there are one or two students who really love the language and culture and go on to study it further, isn't that worth it?

 

[jillio]

I have to disagree with you here. I think ASL should absolutely be offered in high schools as an option for the foreign language requirement. French, German, and Spanish are all very well, but in many parts of the country, students may never end up using the languages at all. Spanish is probably the major exception (depending on where you live), but except for isolated pockets of the country, German and French are really only useful if you're going overseas. However, ASL is a major language used all over the U.S.

And if more students had the option to be exposed to ASL in high school, perhaps more would be motivated to continue to learn about ASL and Deaf culture.



Exactly! There will be those who are only taking the bare minimum they need to pass no matter what language it is. They'll probably forget all the French or ASL they learn and won't benefit from it. But I don't think this is a reason to exclude ASL as a possibility for students to learn. Because as you said, if there are one or two students who really love the language and culture and go on to study it further, isn't that worth it?

I so agree! And with the push to mainstream deaf students into public schools with their "peers", wouldn't it be nice if their "peers" could actually communicate with them?

 

[shel90]

I so agree! And with the push to mainstream deaf students into public schools with their "peers", wouldn't it be nice if their "peers" could actually communicate with them?

That would make a huge hiuge difference for those deaf who are mainstreamed and use ASL. Too often, many deaf children are the only ones deaf at their schools and oral communication can be difficul. Even if a handful of kids do have the motivation to fully acquire ASL, it helps a lot. Heck maybe even oral deaf children can even learn ASL from those classes too. Wonder if I had that in high school, would I have taken it? That's a good question. LOL

 

[SJCSue]

Interpretrator, I love studying world languages! I was very excited about my college offering Arabic and Russian last spring. In hs, I studyed four years of Spanish, two years of French, a year of Italian and a semester of ASL. There are times at work when I wish I remeber more of Spanish I learned in school. I am 25% Puerto Rican (from my grandfather the singer).