ASL: A Paradigm Shift

jillio said:
I'm sure that there is a national registry on schools and methodologies employed in teaching deaf kids. One might start with state depts. of ed. on a state-by state basis.

Unfortunately, many teachers are not aware of the research, or are so comfortable in using their standard methodology that has been part of their teaching practices for so long that they are reluctant to shake the situation up and make changes. Their teaching philosophy is quite often extemely dependent upon their training institution's philosophy. In-service is geared to sopport the methods already in place, continuing ed is chosen to reflect their personal teaching philosophies rather than stepping outside the box and learning something new and innovative.

In teacher's defense, they are over worked and underpaid. Very few have the energy or the time to do these investigations on their own time. If they are motivated to seek out this information, to insitute it would require a battle with administration, and often time consuming activities such as a written proposal including a lit review that would have to be submitted to school district and the board that would include proving economic feasability. It takes an unusually dedicated and selfless indiviudal to shake up the status quo.
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More bleakness... sighs
 
jillio said:
Didn't mean to be bleak....I just try to stay realistic regarding the obstacles.
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I understand that but the more I hear about how broken the system is and the more I ask how to fix it the more I get the impression that its not fixable. Hell if it were then we wouldn't be having much of the discussions on the subject. It really paints a bad picture when I think of my sons future. It also re-enforces what is said about deaf kids comming out of school with low literacy rates. I would be better to spend my energy securing a future for my son than trying to fight a system that cant be fixed.
 
rockdrummer said:
I understand that but the more I hear about how broken the system is and the more I ask how to fix it the more I get the impression that its not fixable. Hell if it were then we wouldn't be having much of the discussions on the subject. It really paints a bad picture when I think of my sons future. It also re-enforces what is said about deaf kids comming out of school with low literacy rates. I would be better to spend my energy securing a future for my son than trying to fight a system that cant be fixed.
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It can be fixed, just not immediately. We have to learn to get some satisfaction out of the small victories, but I do understand what you are saying. When my son was younger, it seemed like a good deal of my time was spent fighting the same battle over and over.

But don't despair, rd. Your son's future is every bit as bright as my own son's future. And my son, despite all of the problems in the system is doing very well. I don't think, as a parent, I could have asked that achieve any more than he has at this point even if he were hearing. And, I'm sure your son will do the same.
 
rockdrummer said:
More bleakness... sighs
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It is not really too bleak but just something that many of us, teachers, have accepted. I just worked from 730 AM to 830 PM today with no overtime pay cuz of back to school night. I dont mind doing that once in a while without the pay but it does not leave me any extra energy to tackle on a research project. Jillo is right...we, teachers, dont have enough time in each day to do our duties let alone to tackle on a massive project like the one you suggested. It would take someone who doesnt have small children at home. Most older teachers are usually so burnt out and just want to use whatever free time to really enjoy their lives so like Jillo said, it would take that special someone to really to do something like that.
 
shel90 said:
It is not really too bleak but just something that many of us, teachers, have accepted. I just worked from 730 AM to 830 PM today with no overtime pay cuz of back to school night. I dont mind doing that once in a while without the pay but it does not leave me any extra energy to tackle on a research project. Jillo is right...we, teachers, dont have enough time in each day to do our duties let alone to tackle on a massive project like the one you suggested. It would take someone who doesnt have small children at home. Most older teachers are usually so burnt out and just want to use whatever free time to really enjoy their lives so like Jillo said, it would take that special someone to really to do something like that.
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You have just re-enforced my point even further. You may not agree but what I hear from folks here about educating deaf children does paint a bleak and hopless picture. The fact that after years and years it's still broken confirm that it's hopeless or that it's not important enough for the people that can have the largest impact to go the extra mile for.
 
jillio said:
It can be fixed, just not immediately. We have to learn to get some satisfaction out of the small victories, but I do understand what you are saying. When my son was younger, it seemed like a good deal of my time was spent fighting the same battle over and over.

But don't despair, rd. Your son's future is every bit as bright as my own son's future. And my son, despite all of the problems in the system is doing very well. I don't think, as a parent, I could have asked that achieve any more than he has at this point even if he were hearing. And, I'm sure your son will do the same.
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I get that Jil.. but how long? The fact is that deafness has been around since the begining of time. Educating deaf children has been around for decades and even centuries. The studies and metrics have been around for decades and yet little if anything is done to make changes for many of the reasons you and shel have stated. I'm sorry but for me this doesn't offer much comfort. I do appreciate you kind words and only hope to God that my boy can be successful in life. I know that I will do everything in my power to secure his future.
 
rockdrummer said:
I get that Jil.. but how long? The fact is that deafness has been around since the begining of time. Educating deaf children has been around for decades and even centuries. The studies and metrics have been around for decades and yet little if anything is done to make changes for many of the reasons you and shel have stated. I'm sorry but for me this doesn't offer much comfort. I do appreciate you kind words and only hope to God that my boy can be successful in life. I know that I will do everything in my power to secure his future.
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Actually, rd, if you will review history, you will see that prior to Milan Congress, students were taught in a bilingual environment and that literacy rates and achievement rates of deaf students paralleled that of their hearin peers. Then with the advent of strict oralism, these scores plummeted. Int he early 1970's, we began to make a shift back toward Total Communication, and the use of sign and speech together. At this time, we began to see the achievemnt scores rise. Then along comes the ADA, and the LRE. Suddenly, the push is to put the deaf student into a mainstream environment, as that is what is interpreted by hearing adminsitrators as the Least Restrictive Environment. Enrollment at deaf schools went down, as the public systems began to attempt to serve the students int heir home districts. However, they did not have the faculty and staff necessary to a ctually address these kid's needs....therefore, we see literacy rates and achievement scores start back down again. Then along comes CI, and the parent's push to fully assimilate their child into the mainstream classroom without even the minimal accommodations provided under the ADA.

The constant variable in allthis is the philosophy that removing deaf children from an environment that educates them as deaf children, and places them in an environment that attempts to educte them as hearing children with auditory deficits has resulted, time and again, in the reduction of the quality of education provided for these children.

So yes, deafness has been around since time began, and deaf people have been telling htehearing population what they need and what works for them since that time. Everytime we seem to make progress, andthe hearing community starts to listen and we start making imporvements based on providing the deaf student what he/she needs from a deaf perspective, another hearing zealot comes along to prey on the hearing parents of a deaf child's fears for their child's future, and we make a giant leap backwards. As hearing parents of deaf children, we have to keep challenging these manipulations and assumptions of the hearing community that they know better how to deal with deafness than do the deaf themselves. When enough hearing parents have the courage to stand up and say, "You're wrong!" people will start to listen. But as long as the hearing parents continue to buy into the manipulations of the surgeons and the manufacturerers and the oralists who stand to make a profit off of the method chosen to educate deaf children, our progress will be slow. You cannot beat awareness and insight into people, unfortunately.
 
Let me just say that the LRE interpretation back then was a crock!
 
rockdrummer said:
You have just re-enforced my point even further. You may not agree but what I hear from folks here about educating deaf children does paint a bleak and hopless picture. The fact that after years and years it's still broken confirm that it's hopeless or that it's not important enough for the people that can have the largest impact to go the extra mile for.
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What people? The teachers, parents, or Deaf people themselves?

Deaf Ed doesnt have to be bleak. In fact, I have a class this year who are not language delayed and man, I am telling u, I am seeing so much progress with my students already since school started 5 weeks ago. Gosh, one of my students described in her own words what Venn Diagrams are for..many 8 year olds cant do that! It is not all bleak for everyone.
 
rockdrummer said:
I get that Jil.. but how long? The fact is that deafness has been around since the begining of time. Educating deaf children has been around for decades and even centuries. The studies and metrics have been around for decades and yet little if anything is done to make changes for many of the reasons you and shel have stated. I'm sorry but for me this doesn't offer much comfort. I do appreciate you kind words and only hope to God that my boy can be successful in life. I know that I will do everything in my power to secure his future.
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Preface: I'm not Deaf, I don't have children who are Deaf/deaf; in fact, I don't have children at all (although, I have an almost-2-years-old d/Deaf nephew). I'm just a 34 year old guy in an Interpreter training program, who took a FASCINATING Deaf History/Deaf Culture class one semester.

Our "textbook" for that class was A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD, by Harlan Lane, Robert Hoffmeister and Ben Bahan (who I just love). This book was, simply put, AMAZING. I learned SO much about the Deaf community that semester, and learned things about Deaf history that I knew NOTHING about.

The reason I'm bringing this up in this thread is that in that book, there's an entire chapter on Deaf Education (and several other chapters that reference it) that I think you might find interesting. If you haven't had occasion to read that book, I highly recommend it. To be honest, though, the picture IS rather bleak, in some areas. Oftentimes, I'd get so frustrated reading about various struggles that Deaf people have gone through (and continue to go through), and I found myself asking over and over again, "Why aren't they advocating for themselves, to make the situation with Deaf Ed better? Where the hell are the advocacy groups??"

The only answer I could come up with was that within the Deaf community, there are SO many different factions of people who believe X over Y, etc. Even on this forum, you can see just how many disagreements there are among people within the community about things like cochlear implants, Bi-Bi education, oralism, mainstream education, ASL vs SEE vs Cueing, etc. There's not really one cohesive voice, and I think that impedes progress in the matter. Because in the hearing world, when it comes to things like Deaf Ed, their voice is much more cohesive. In the medical community, as it relates to cochlear implants, their voice is much more cohesive. It just makes it that much more of an uphill battle.

I'm sorry if this post isn't very uplifting, and that it doesn't offer any real solution. But I will say that there ARE success stories out there, and that it's not all doom and gloom. Jillio's son is a prime example... and Shel90's own experiences, and those experiences of several other AD members here. It CAN be done, it's just going to involve a struggle. And as a parent, I know you want your son's life to be as struggle-free as possible. But, as you know with your own life, "that which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger". More often than not, a little struggle makes one the better for it. :hug:
 
InTheGenes said:
Preface: I'm not Deaf, I don't have children who are Deaf/deaf; in fact, I don't have children at all (although, I have an almost-2-years-old d/Deaf nephew). I'm just a 34 year old guy in an Interpreter training program, who took a FASCINATING Deaf History/Deaf Culture class one semester.

Our "textbook" for that class was A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD, by Harlan Lane, Robert Hoffmeister and Ben Bahan (who I just love). This book was, simply put, AMAZING. I learned SO much about the Deaf community that semester, and learned things about Deaf history that I knew NOTHING about.

The reason I'm bringing this up in this thread is that in that book, there's an entire chapter on Deaf Education (and several other chapters that reference it) that I think you might find interesting. If you haven't had occasion to read that book, I highly recommend it. To be honest, though, the picture IS rather bleak, in some areas. Oftentimes, I'd get so frustrated reading about various struggles that Deaf people have gone through (and continue to go through), and I found myself asking over and over again, "Why aren't they advocating for themselves, to make the situation with Deaf Ed better? Where the hell are the advocacy groups??"

The only answer I could come up with was that within the Deaf community, there are SO many different factions of people who believe X over Y, etc. Even on this forum, you can see just how many disagreements there are among people within the community about things like cochlear implants, Bi-Bi education, oralism, mainstream education, ASL vs SEE vs Cueing, etc. There's not really one cohesive voice, and I think that impedes progress in the matter. Because in the hearing world, when it comes to things like Deaf Ed, their voice is much more cohesive. In the medical community, as it relates to cochlear implants, their voice is much more cohesive. It just makes it that much more of an uphill battle.

I'm sorry if this post isn't very uplifting, and that it doesn't offer any real solution. But I will say that there ARE success stories out there, and that it's not all doom and gloom. Jillio's son is a prime example... and Shel90's own experiences, and those experiences of several other AD members here. It CAN be done, it's just going to involve a struggle. And as a parent, I know you want your son's life to be as struggle-free as possible. But, as you know with your own life, "that which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger". More often than not, a little struggle makes one the better for it. :hug:
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Ah, very good! I'm happy to see that we won't be needing to beat insight and awareness into you....you have already achieved it!:giggle:
 
jillio said:
Actually, rd, if you will review history, you will see that prior to Milan Congress, students were taught in a bilingual environment and that literacy rates and achievement rates of deaf students paralleled that of their hearin peers. Then with the advent of strict oralism, these scores plummeted. Int he early 1970's, we began to make a shift back toward Total Communication, and the use of sign and speech together. At this time, we began to see the achievemnt scores rise. Then along comes the ADA, and the LRE. Suddenly, the push is to put the deaf student into a mainstream environment, as that is what is interpreted by hearing adminsitrators as the Least Restrictive Environment. Enrollment at deaf schools went down, as the public systems began to attempt to serve the students int heir home districts. However, they did not have the faculty and staff necessary to a ctually address these kid's needs....therefore, we see literacy rates and achievement scores start back down again. Then along comes CI, and the parent's push to fully assimilate their child into the mainstream classroom without even the minimal accommodations provided under the ADA.

The constant variable in allthis is the philosophy that removing deaf children from an environment that educates them as deaf children, and places them in an environment that attempts to educte them as hearing children with auditory deficits has resulted, time and again, in the reduction of the quality of education provided for these children.

So yes, deafness has been around since time began, and deaf people have been telling htehearing population what they need and what works for them since that time. Everytime we seem to make progress, andthe hearing community starts to listen and we start making imporvements based on providing the deaf student what he/she needs from a deaf perspective, another hearing zealot comes along to prey on the hearing parents of a deaf child's fears for their child's future, and we make a giant leap backwards. As hearing parents of deaf children, we have to keep challenging these manipulations and assumptions of the hearing community that they know better how to deal with deafness than do the deaf themselves. When enough hearing parents have the courage to stand up and say, "You're wrong!" people will start to listen. But as long as the hearing parents continue to buy into the manipulations of the surgeons and the manufacturerers and the oralists who stand to make a profit off of the method chosen to educate deaf children, our progress will be slow. You cannot beat awareness and insight into people, unfortunately.
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Thanks. That's some good insight. What ammunition can I as a parent use to effect this change. In other words if I am going to second guess the teaching methods I need to have concrete information to back up my position.
 
InTheGenes said:
. Oftentimes, I'd get so frustrated reading about various struggles that Deaf people have gone through (and continue to go through), and I found myself asking over and over again, "Why aren't they advocating for themselves, to make the situation with Deaf Ed better? Where the hell are the advocacy groups??"
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Thanks and I ask the same question. Where are the d/Deaf advocates. Why aren't the people that stand to have the most impact not organizing and advocating for this. The fact that the deaf community has mixed opinions makes it even more difficult to figure out which is right or the most effective. It really gets overwhelming sometimes.
 
shel90 said:
What people? The teachers, parents, or Deaf people themselves?
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In my opinion the people that can have the biggest impact are firstly the deaf educators and secondly the d/Deaf community followed by the experts that are privy to the studies and also the parents. But first and foremost I believe that the people that have the knowledge and access to the metrics would have the greatest impact because they can formulate the best case because of their expertise.

But as Inthegenes says even within the deaf community there are mixed opinions. Combined (in my view) this all paints a pretty hopeless picture. I can't believe that statistics show one method yields better results than another and that information can't be used to effect changes. If teaching deaf kids in a given method yields higher literacty rates on par with hearing peers, why in Gods name aren't the schools MADE to incorporate the methods that work better? And why aren't there organized advocacy groups lobbying or doing whatever it takes to make this happen?
 
rockdrummer said:
Thanks. That's some good insight. What ammunition can I as a parent use to effect this change. In other words if I am going to second guess the teaching methods I need to have concrete information to back up my position.
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A lot of the research you have been coming up with will be helpful. Also, I woulkd recommend a book titled "Sound and Sign by Kathryn Meadows, a well respected developmental psychologist and expert in deaf education and the cognitive development of deaf children.

As a parent, you have the right to say, "These are the accommodations that I am requesting for my child because.......and you can base that on research as well as your personal observations regarding your child. If the system refuses, simply refuse to sign the IEP, and, with a smile on your face, say, "Well, I guess I'll see you at the due process hearing."
 
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