Are Drug Users Persecuted?

See it all the time. Physician says, there is nothing wrong with you. You just need to stop using drugs, and I am not giving you anything mood altering.

Psychologist does a complete history. Psychologist says: "It appears that you have had an underlying depression since childhood. Have you ever been treated for that?"

Patient says: "No. The doc said there wasn't anything wrong with me except that I used drugs."
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And certainly psychiatrists who are also physicians most definitely deal with addiction from the past emotional experiences pov.



Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And certainly psychiatrists who are also physicians most definitely deal with addiction from the past emotional experiences pov.



Fuzzy
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:laugh2: Find me a psychiatrist that treats addiciton. In fact, you are going to be hard pressed to find many psychiatrists that even treat patients, other than to prescribe and refer out for therapy.
 
jillio said:
The opiates prescribed to him are legal. He wasn't satisfied with a medically therapeutic dose. He wanted more. He obtained them illegally. He stepped outside the bounds of the law. Oh, well.
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and who did he harm during his crime spree, besides himself?

Drug laws are more about control than actual crime.
 
Find me a psychiatrist that treats addiciton. In fact, you are going to be hard pressed to find many psychiatrists that even treat patients, other than to prescribe and refer out for therapy.
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Some do. nevertheless.
besides, that wasn't what we were talking about.

Last but not least, nowadays even the layman knows about psychological roots of most addiction, you don't have to be physician to know that.
So does the qualified professional, all the more.

As much as I respect the field of psychology, I wouldn't assume you know better
if an addict comes to your office with a sob story "a doctor told me I don't need anything, I just need to quit" - because junkies lie, and doctors know what they do.


Maybe indeed all what the addict needs do is to QUIT, not more drugs.

Fuzzy
 
other than to prescribe and refer out for therapy.
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ps = forgot to add

if you are diagnosed with depression, you often need antidepressants,
and these can be addictive too.
Not the best idea for an addict who tries to quit, unless absolutely necessary.
Fuzzy
 
Doug5 said:
and who did he harm during his crime spree, besides himself?

Drug laws are more about control than actual crime.
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It doesn't matter if he harmed anyone or not. He still engaged in criminal activity by purchasing drugs illegally and scamming doctors. You don't have to cause injury to another to be guilty of illegal behavior. The drugs are legal. His behavior was illegal. Get it?

Just a pretty good indication that your assertion that making drugs legal will take the criminal behavior away is just a bunch of BS.:lol:
 
Audiofuzzy said:
ps = forgot to add

if you are diagnosed with depression, you often need antidepressants,
and these can be addictive too.
Not the best idea for an addict who tries to quit, unless absolutely necessary.
Fuzzy
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The vast majority of depression is treated without medication.

You are referring to cases in which the patient is taking a subtherapeutic dose and abruptly stops the medication. There are many medications that need to be tapered off, not because of true physical addiction, but to allow brain chemistry and blood chemistry to slowly return to non-medicated levels.

Seriously, Fuzzy. You are way over your head on this one. You know absolutely nothing about the neurological issues, the biopsychiatric issues, nor the biopharmacological issues of medication as part of a treatment plan.
 
Just a pretty good indication that your assertion that making drugs legal will take the criminal behavior away is just a bunch of BS.
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Really? how about prohibition, and then legalizing alcohol?
didn't that put stop to illegal activities involved with it,
and put mafia out of business once and for all?

Seriously, Fuzzy. You are way over your head on this one. You know absolutely nothing about the neurological issues, the biopsychiatric issues, nor the biopharmacological issues of medication as part of a treatment plan.
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Oh, don't worry Jilly :laugh2: no need to feel threatened - you are the smartest one in the sandbox, yes you are, yes you are, pat pat on the head :laugh2:

:wave:

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Really? how about prohibition, and then legalizing alcohol?
didn't that put stop to illegal activities involved with it,
and put mafia out of business once and for all?



Oh, don't worry Jilly :laugh2: no need to feel threatened - you are the smartest one in the sandbox, yes you are, yes you are, pat pat on the head :laugh2:

:wave:

Fuzzy
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I guess you haven't checked the DWI stats lately. Of course it has not removed the illegal behavior associated with alcohol. Where do you think White Lightening comes from? Illegal distilleries. No, of course it hasn't stopped the criminal behavior associated with alcohol.

The Mafia out of business. You aren't serious, are you?:laugh2:

Threatened? By whom? Don't flatter yourself.:laugh2:
 
I didn't say legalizing alcohol stopped alcohol USE. of course there are DUI.
Legalizing alcohol stopped the big illegal mafia alcohol monoply, and no matter
how do you try to deny that, IT DID, sweetie.

correct, I didn't mean mafia as a whole but just a alcohol part.

Today's illegal distilleries are not the same as it were in the time of prohibition.

Illegal bootleg always was, even before prohibition, is now and will be whether alcohol is legal or not - but not as huge as during
the prohibition scale anymore.

Same goes for cigarettes. In Canada, we do have serious illegal cigarettes smuggling due to high prices and taxes.
But still, this is not as big a business as narcotics are.


Legalizing narcotics would do exactly the same thing to the narcotic illegal trade what it did to the prohibition.
There at least could be a tax money from narcotic sales that could be used for also treating addicts for a change.
There could be less crime involved with getting narcotics legally.
There could be legal paying jobs with growing narcotics. Safer jobs environment producing narcotics. and so on.
Oh, sure it wouldn't be all roses, after all we don't live in paradise.
But it could be better.

Threatened? By whom? Don't flatter yourself.
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Relax already - now, now, look at the nice sand, see how nice it is?
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I didn't say legalizing alcohol stopped alcohol USE. of course there are DUI.
Legalizing alcohol stopped the big illegal mafia alcohol monoply, and no matter
how do you try to deny that, IT DID, sweetie.

Please don't call me sweetie. Your attempts at patronization are feeble. You said it stopped the illegal activity associated with alcohol. The last I checked, DWI was illegal.:cool2: As is public drunkeness, panhandling to purchase cheap wine, stealing to purchase alcohol......and on and on and on. Just admit it, you were wrong.
correct, I didn't mean mafia as a whole but just a alcohol part.

You are not very good at backpedaling.

Today's illegal distilleries are not the same as it were in the time of prohibition.

Yes, they are.

Illegal bootleg always was, even before prohibition, is now and will be whether alcohol is legal or not - but not as huge as during
the prohibition scale anymore.

So, legalizing alcohol does not eradicate the illegal activity associated with alcohol. Thanks for confirming my point.
Same goes for cigarettes. In Canada, we do have serious illegal cigarettes smuggling due to high prices and taxes.
But still, this is not as big a business as narcotics are.

Because cigarrettes are not mood altering. Duh.


Legalizing narcotics would do exactly the same thing to the narcotic illegal trade what it did to the prohibition.
There at least could be a tax money from narcotic sales that could be used for also treating addicts for a change.
There could be less crime involved with getting narcotics legally.
There could be legal paying jobs with growing narcotics. Safer jobs environment producing narcotics. and so on.
Oh, sure it wouldn't be all roses, after all we don't live in paradise.
But it could be better.


Relax already - now, now, look at the nice sand, see how nice it is?
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Fuzzy
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You live in a very, very strange world, Fuzzy. Legalization is not even in the first 100 issues that need to be addressed regarding narcotics. Legalization is not going to prevent people from getting addicted. Addiction is the issue. Address the social issues that prompt people to use mood altering substances to the extent we see today. Anything else is sticking a band aid on a festering wound. Only people who have no understanding of the whys and wherefores of the interaction of society and drugs thinks legalization is the answer. They are usually around 17 or 18 years old. It becomes comical when they never advance their knowlege past that point.:lol:
 
jillio said:
You live in a very, very strange world, Fuzzy. Legalization is not even in the first 100 issues that need to be addressed regarding narcotics. Legalization is not going to prevent people from getting addicted. Addiction is the issue. Address the social issues that prompt people to use mood altering substances to the extent we see today. Anything else is sticking a band aid on a festering wound. Only people who have no understanding of the whys and wherefores of the interaction of society and drugs thinks legalization is the answer. They are usually around 17 or 18 years old. It becomes comical when they never advance their knowlege past that point.:lol:
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However illegalizing drugs does cause problems of its own and I do believe legalizing anything that can be grown in your backyard would be a step in the right direction.

What laws might be made that would reduce drug addiction?

Oddly it would be eliminating and/or altering laws that have nothing to do with drugs.

Drug abuse becomes attractive when life becomes uninteresting and boring.

What makes life interesting for many people, especially, but not limited to, young people, is risk and danger to one degree or another. High speed cars, fighting, being shot out of a cannon, and other things that in our "Be SAFE" world are illegal.

So a great place to start is to look for ways to legalize those things that make life interesting to people who don't want to "Walk on the safe side" 24/7.

The belief that you can't succeed no matter what makes drugs attractive to blunt the pain of certain failure.

The belief that the world is made up of leaders and losers makes drugs attractive for those who believe they once had a chance and blew it.

The belief that the only measure of success is money. If you aren't a billionaire you suck.

I'd go on but this crap is depressing and I have a novel to write for NaNoWriMo.
 
Legalization is not going to prevent people from getting addicted. Addiction is the issue.
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Show me where I said legalization will prevent people from getting addicted,
and that addiction itself is not the issue????

Address the social issues that prompt people to use mood altering substances to the extent we see today.
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It depends on the drug - the raise of use on antidepressants is a whole different subject that the use of drugs like marijuana or crack.
And I would dispute the social causes for uses of the latest changed that much
for centuries.



Anything else is sticking a band aid on a festering wound. Only people who have no understanding of the whys and wherefores of the interaction of society and drugs thinks legalization is the answer.
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And you think you do ?? :giggle: :laugh2:

I am glad you are not actively participating in the legalization, just bicker on the sidelines :laugh2:

Fuzzy
 
Doug5 said:
Supposedly, addicts have a genetic predispostion. Isnt that similar how being gay is genetic or born that way? People dont choose to have urges or cravings.

It wasnt long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Currently illegal drug use is considered the mental illness of addiction. Yet costly treatment programs have limited sucess if any. Even with longterm sobriety, the drug cravings never completely go away. For many, relapse is only a matter of time.

The drug user deals with jail, disease risks, discrimination, violence, artifically costly adulturated drugs. Things that are exaggerated by war on drugs. :hmm:
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Predisposition or no predisposition, here are the facts.

Some addicts have concomitant traits that are socially destructive, others do not.

Some addicts will use the rent money, their children's lunch money, and sell everything in the house to support their addiction.

Others are willing and able to show up to work everyday, take care of their family obligations, and still support their addiction, whatever it may be. They are functional addicts.

The latter group is the one society seems to attack the hardest. Once a functional addict is discovered they are forced into the choice of losing their addiction or losing their job -- Both their livelihood and their means of supporting their addiction.

In many places if a sober driver runs a red light and broadsides a drunk driver -- By law it is the person driving under the influences fault.

So I would say yes, society does discriminate unfairly against the functional addict.
 
Berry said:
However illegalizing drugs does cause problems of its own and I do believe legalizing anything that can be grown in your backyard would be a step in the right direction.

What laws might be made that would reduce drug addiction?

Oddly it would be eliminating and/or altering laws that have nothing to do with drugs.

Drug abuse becomes attractive when life becomes uninteresting and boring.

What makes life interesting for many people, especially, but not limited to, young people, is risk and danger to one degree or another. High speed cars, fighting, being shot out of a cannon, and other things that in our "Be SAFE" world are illegal.

So a great place to start is to look for ways to legalize those things that make life interesting to people who don't want to "Walk on the safe side" 24/7.

The belief that you can't succeed no matter what makes drugs attractive to blunt the pain of certain failure.

The belief that the world is made up of leaders and losers makes drugs attractive for those who believe they once had a chance and blew it.

The belief that the only measure of success is money. If you aren't a billionaire you suck.

I'd go on but this crap is depressing and I have a novel to write for NaNoWriMo.
Click to expand...

You must be reading my mind.
 
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