darn it.... I did call and ask the guy at motorcycle rider safety course in New Jersey about provide ASL interpeter for the deaf. it say do not have any provide an interpreter in the class for learning rider a motorcycle. GRRR....
Are any other Bikers here?
- Thread starter C.C.Sinned
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Man, that doesn't seem right. You might need to "go over his head" to get the terp.Chelle said:
Try starting a new thread under the Interpreting topic, asking for advice. There might be some other people with suggestions that aren't reading the biker posts.
I will meet you at that thread and continue the discussion. I think we are getting too much :topic: here.
vfr
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loud pipes
let me honest...any body thinking pipes make a diffence are kidding themselves.
i custum build bikes..and built a 145 CI s&s nitromethane guzzlin drag bike with14 inch long pipes..yep that short.. no baffles.. with10 inches of fire shooting out of them.. i mean it was a drag bike...
so what happens?????
i started it up and coasted to the front of the shop and pulled out on to street..revved the damb thing to red line to warm it up and smoked the tire in a good burn out... and nearly got run over by a fucking cop!
dunkin donuts was right next stoor and when pulled out of my shop i had pased the driveway of DD's and the fucking moron cop ,busy sipping his coffee, did not hear a fucking 240 decible roar 20 feet away!the smell of burning rubber did not do shit either........
the only reason the the retard stopped was the fact he happened to look up from his tiny dick as he turned. he stopped after he moved the bike about 2 inches.
if you haver seen a biker get pissed a scratch on a new bike.. i made that look like a kitten mewwing. the only thing that stopped me from killing the fucking cop was the fact that my boss saw the whole thing and ran out to stop me.
needless to say the moron got desk duty..i wanted the fucker fired. if you cant see a 14 foot long neon green drag bike..or hear it...or smell it.. you should be put in a home for special people!
my daily ride is a honda rc45..thats a crotch rocket from hell for those of you who dont know, with straight though muffler ..no baffle . and standing still anywhere its louder than a harly..and people still fucking try to pull in to where i am!
so i carry a u lock..and have my plate bent under the seat..so every time some shithead bumps me or cuts me off. i smash his mirrors or headlights or the fucking windsheild with the u lock, then take off like a bat outa hell!
i simply do not take shit any more!
let me honest...any body thinking pipes make a diffence are kidding themselves.
i custum build bikes..and built a 145 CI s&s nitromethane guzzlin drag bike with14 inch long pipes..yep that short.. no baffles.. with10 inches of fire shooting out of them.. i mean it was a drag bike...
so what happens?????
i started it up and coasted to the front of the shop and pulled out on to street..revved the damb thing to red line to warm it up and smoked the tire in a good burn out... and nearly got run over by a fucking cop!
dunkin donuts was right next stoor and when pulled out of my shop i had pased the driveway of DD's and the fucking moron cop ,busy sipping his coffee, did not hear a fucking 240 decible roar 20 feet away!the smell of burning rubber did not do shit either........
the only reason the the retard stopped was the fact he happened to look up from his tiny dick as he turned. he stopped after he moved the bike about 2 inches.
if you haver seen a biker get pissed a scratch on a new bike.. i made that look like a kitten mewwing. the only thing that stopped me from killing the fucking cop was the fact that my boss saw the whole thing and ran out to stop me.
needless to say the moron got desk duty..i wanted the fucker fired. if you cant see a 14 foot long neon green drag bike..or hear it...or smell it.. you should be put in a home for special people!
my daily ride is a honda rc45..thats a crotch rocket from hell for those of you who dont know, with straight though muffler ..no baffle . and standing still anywhere its louder than a harly..and people still fucking try to pull in to where i am!
so i carry a u lock..and have my plate bent under the seat..so every time some shithead bumps me or cuts me off. i smash his mirrors or headlights or the fucking windsheild with the u lock, then take off like a bat outa hell!
i simply do not take shit any more!
cabaca
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C.C.Sinned said:
Were you there in Sturgis with DBA this year??
EyesBlueDeaf
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Another motorcycle owner here! Got Honda CMX 250 last August.. practiced on my own until last weekend - took motorcycle class in NJ (free) and PASSED! Ya ya ya.. Already am thinking about upgrading my bike to Honda Shadow VLX.
Right now I'm suffering a severe PMS... "Parked Motorcycle Syndrome" I'll be waiting and
until March.. hopefully earlier.
Right now I'm suffering a severe PMS... "Parked Motorcycle Syndrome" I'll be waiting and
diehardbiker
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Ahem! I kinda of like your attitude! Generally I hate these crotch rockets because I look at them as scumbag jerks who thinks they are invencible. The reason I viewed this way is because they leave bad remarks for cool bikers. Why they need to brag and have their front wheel up in the air for a mile? Going from zero to 150 mph in no time! I am sorry, but I gave them middle fingers few times! Surely, cops hate them because they are almost impossible to catch! These idiot biker would even be lucky if he or she never made one small mistake! Once a small mistake, end of story as you know it!
But what you did with cop, I love ya!!! And yea, I know some rice burner is MUCH louder than Harley! I rode on Yamaha Vstar 1100cc custom, MOFO its WAY louder than Harley shovelhead with straight pipe. This sure make Harley like a wussy!
But what you did with cop, I love ya!!! And yea, I know some rice burner is MUCH louder than Harley! I rode on Yamaha Vstar 1100cc custom, MOFO its WAY louder than Harley shovelhead with straight pipe. This sure make Harley like a wussy!
vfr said:
C.C.Sinned
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this says it all (part one)
This is commentary on Ken Codon's article, which a copy of can be found at:
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/proficient_motor/PMC03A.pdf
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/proficient_motor/PMC03B.pdf
quote:
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The quiet bike proponents argue that exhaust noise is an unreliable collision deterrent.
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So is everything else in itself. For example, if you wear only bright cloths, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. If you know perfect curve theory but not much of anything else, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. If you know how to threshold brake perfectly but not much of anything else, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. Etc. Etc. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
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But sound has its limitations as a way of getting attention. We all know that it can be hard to get the attention of a person who is deep in thought, distracted by conversation, or deafened by the noise of a loud party.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is very true, but those people seem to be immune to everything. You can honk your horn at them as well and they will not respond. You can wear bright clothing and they will not notice you. Eventually something may work, but there is no guarantee with such people. I have honked my horn over and over just to see someone slowly backing into me. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
Here are excerpts to think about from More Proficient Motorcycling. (1) “Well, many of us suspect that conspicuity isn’t that simple. How is it that a driver can pull out in front of a yellow motorcycle with its headlight blazing on high and the rider wearing a glowing orange “safety” vest and leaning on a pair of air horns? Well, think about those newspaper accounts of drivers who motored across the railroad tracks right in front of a freight train, apparently unable to see the flashing lights or hear the blasts of the locomotive’s horn.” (More Proficient Motorcycling 143). That implies not only that sound has its limitations, but so does sight. No doubt it works on the majority of people, but no guarantees.
(2) “Years ago, a pessimistic Road Rider journalist didn’t think much of the conspicuity suggestions offered by the Hurt Report. So he did a little informal test of the high-visibility suggestions during his daily commutes to work. On different weeks, he rode with different levels of conspicuousness and tallied the number of drivers who violated his right-of-way. One week he rode a “stealth” bike: a narrow dark-colored machine with no accessories and the headlight turned off. To decrease his conspicuity he wore dark riding gear. The next week he rode a “conspicuity” bike: a white machine with a big fairing and the headlight and taillight blazing. When riding the conspicuity bike, he wore a bright-colored riding suit and flashy helmet. The third week he tried the “motor cop” appearance: the black stealth bike outfitted with white saddlebags and a clear windshield, but with the headlight turned off. His motor cop costume included a short-sleeved khaki shirt, tall leather boots, a half helmet with shiny visor, and sunglasses. Okay, he also attached his club name badge to the left breast pocket. His conclusions: there were far fewer infractions when he was riding with the motor cop setup. The conspicuity package didn’t do any better than the stealth package (More Proficient Motorcycling 145-146).
quote:
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Noise from a motorcycle's exhaust can make drivers aware of a motorcycle's presence, but are likely to be effective only in lower speed situation where road and wind noise are at a minimum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words that means that on the superslab exhaust noise will not be effective, but in the city it can be. For this answer I turn to my motorcycle bible (The Proficient Motorcycling book by Hough that I call the Old testament and the More Proficient Motorcycling book by Hough that I call the New testament). And I quote "Statistically, superslabs are much safer than city streets or two-lane back roads. The old standby Hurt report from 1981 indicated that only 10 percent of motorcycle accidents occurred on freeways. Later data on fatal crashes based on type of roadway hints that superslabs are getting even safer." unquote (Proficient Motorcycling 119). That means that exhaust noise would matter the most in the low speed city streets anyways where it would be the most effective. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
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Even though you can make your presence known by making a loud noise, it's also important for the intended receiver to figure out where the sound is coming from.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is commentary on Ken Codon's article, which a copy of can be found at:
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/proficient_motor/PMC03A.pdf
http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/proficient_motor/PMC03B.pdf
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The quiet bike proponents argue that exhaust noise is an unreliable collision deterrent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So is everything else in itself. For example, if you wear only bright cloths, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. If you know perfect curve theory but not much of anything else, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. If you know how to threshold brake perfectly but not much of anything else, then that is an unreliable collision deterrent as well. Etc. Etc. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But sound has its limitations as a way of getting attention. We all know that it can be hard to get the attention of a person who is deep in thought, distracted by conversation, or deafened by the noise of a loud party.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is very true, but those people seem to be immune to everything. You can honk your horn at them as well and they will not respond. You can wear bright clothing and they will not notice you. Eventually something may work, but there is no guarantee with such people. I have honked my horn over and over just to see someone slowly backing into me. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
Here are excerpts to think about from More Proficient Motorcycling. (1) “Well, many of us suspect that conspicuity isn’t that simple. How is it that a driver can pull out in front of a yellow motorcycle with its headlight blazing on high and the rider wearing a glowing orange “safety” vest and leaning on a pair of air horns? Well, think about those newspaper accounts of drivers who motored across the railroad tracks right in front of a freight train, apparently unable to see the flashing lights or hear the blasts of the locomotive’s horn.” (More Proficient Motorcycling 143). That implies not only that sound has its limitations, but so does sight. No doubt it works on the majority of people, but no guarantees.
(2) “Years ago, a pessimistic Road Rider journalist didn’t think much of the conspicuity suggestions offered by the Hurt Report. So he did a little informal test of the high-visibility suggestions during his daily commutes to work. On different weeks, he rode with different levels of conspicuousness and tallied the number of drivers who violated his right-of-way. One week he rode a “stealth” bike: a narrow dark-colored machine with no accessories and the headlight turned off. To decrease his conspicuity he wore dark riding gear. The next week he rode a “conspicuity” bike: a white machine with a big fairing and the headlight and taillight blazing. When riding the conspicuity bike, he wore a bright-colored riding suit and flashy helmet. The third week he tried the “motor cop” appearance: the black stealth bike outfitted with white saddlebags and a clear windshield, but with the headlight turned off. His motor cop costume included a short-sleeved khaki shirt, tall leather boots, a half helmet with shiny visor, and sunglasses. Okay, he also attached his club name badge to the left breast pocket. His conclusions: there were far fewer infractions when he was riding with the motor cop setup. The conspicuity package didn’t do any better than the stealth package (More Proficient Motorcycling 145-146).
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noise from a motorcycle's exhaust can make drivers aware of a motorcycle's presence, but are likely to be effective only in lower speed situation where road and wind noise are at a minimum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words that means that on the superslab exhaust noise will not be effective, but in the city it can be. For this answer I turn to my motorcycle bible (The Proficient Motorcycling book by Hough that I call the Old testament and the More Proficient Motorcycling book by Hough that I call the New testament). And I quote "Statistically, superslabs are much safer than city streets or two-lane back roads. The old standby Hurt report from 1981 indicated that only 10 percent of motorcycle accidents occurred on freeways. Later data on fatal crashes based on type of roadway hints that superslabs are getting even safer." unquote (Proficient Motorcycling 119). That means that exhaust noise would matter the most in the low speed city streets anyways where it would be the most effective. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though you can make your presence known by making a loud noise, it's also important for the intended receiver to figure out where the sound is coming from.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C.C.Sinned
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part two
You can honk your horn, but every vehicle has a horn and they all pretty much sound similar. That means if you honk the receiver doesn't know who honked. Did a car honk? Did a SUV honk? Did a truck honk? The loud pipes on a motorcycle make a distinct sound that the great majority of people recognize as a motorcycle. Thus, loud pipes can help a receiver of that noise filter out 95% of the traffic because you know it's not a car or SUV or truck. You know it's a motorcycle and can start searching for the location of the bike. Even Ken supports this by saying:
quote:
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Loud pipes may alert a driver that a motorcycle is in the vicinity, but the driver may be left wondering where the bike is until he actually sees it.
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That is correct. However, loud pipes mean a motorcycle. That means the driver won't spend time looking at 95% of the traffic which consists of trucks and SUVs and cars. A good example is an ambulance. When you hear ambulance sirens you don't know where it is but you don't look at cars or motorcycles or trucks, but you search for the ambulance. I'm going to support this a little more by something Hough said on pg. 143 of More Proficient Motorcycling "There is some evidence that the human brain disregards objects it doesn't expect to see." Loud pipes means the human brain expects to see a motorcycle as opposed to a horn where it expects to see a vehicle with HIGH chances of it being a car. Thus, loud pipes can aid in finding a motorcyclist.
quote:
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NHTSA statistics report that 76% of motorcycles involved in two-vehicle crashes were impacted from the front, with only 5% coming from the rear. Rear facing exhaust outlets face the wrong way to be especially effective at alerting drivers ahead of you to your presence.
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That is very interesting. Why would frontal crashes be so severely disproportionate?
I mean a car facing a motorcycle from the front or the back is looking pretty much through the same window of view. Also, 76+5 = 81. So that means that roughly 10% would be impacts on each side, which is much more consistent with the 5% rear impacts. Even stock exhausts on cruisers produce a descent amount of noise. Many Harley cruisers, although stock, will still have pipes you can hear. The same applies to many metric cruisers. Could it be that because the sound of pipes is more effective at making your presence known rearward that they actually help prevent some rear end collisions? That would be a possible explanation for the disproportionate frontal impacts. I can’t prove this, but I would very much like to see a study done. Will rear end impacts increase when you put a completely silent exhaust on a cruiser? Now that would be a great study. Also if you think about it, a motorcycle going to collide with something else at the front has more control over that impact. They can brake, swerve, or accelerate. An impact from the rear only allows for swerving and accelerating and that is if you have the room to move. The horn on a motorcycle is usually mounted toward the front, so why doesn’t the biker just use the horn to prevent at least some of the frontal impacts? Like Ken said it’s mounted in the right location and produces the right high frequency sound. I have reason to suspect that something else is going on here. Another possibility is just bad driving. If these frontal impacts are happening because of biker mistakes such as going wide in a turn, or not being able to brake in time, or not paying attention, then really nothing can prevent that except good training. In my opinion, this doesn’t really offer conclusive proof against loud pipes. It would require further study.
quote:
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Arguably, the louder exhaust may have provided some added conspicuity. But evidence suggests that it is better to make yourself more visible, by tactics such as wearing bright clothing, and using lane positions that keep you in sight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can honk your horn, but every vehicle has a horn and they all pretty much sound similar. That means if you honk the receiver doesn't know who honked. Did a car honk? Did a SUV honk? Did a truck honk? The loud pipes on a motorcycle make a distinct sound that the great majority of people recognize as a motorcycle. Thus, loud pipes can help a receiver of that noise filter out 95% of the traffic because you know it's not a car or SUV or truck. You know it's a motorcycle and can start searching for the location of the bike. Even Ken supports this by saying:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loud pipes may alert a driver that a motorcycle is in the vicinity, but the driver may be left wondering where the bike is until he actually sees it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is correct. However, loud pipes mean a motorcycle. That means the driver won't spend time looking at 95% of the traffic which consists of trucks and SUVs and cars. A good example is an ambulance. When you hear ambulance sirens you don't know where it is but you don't look at cars or motorcycles or trucks, but you search for the ambulance. I'm going to support this a little more by something Hough said on pg. 143 of More Proficient Motorcycling "There is some evidence that the human brain disregards objects it doesn't expect to see." Loud pipes means the human brain expects to see a motorcycle as opposed to a horn where it expects to see a vehicle with HIGH chances of it being a car. Thus, loud pipes can aid in finding a motorcyclist.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHTSA statistics report that 76% of motorcycles involved in two-vehicle crashes were impacted from the front, with only 5% coming from the rear. Rear facing exhaust outlets face the wrong way to be especially effective at alerting drivers ahead of you to your presence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is very interesting. Why would frontal crashes be so severely disproportionate?
I mean a car facing a motorcycle from the front or the back is looking pretty much through the same window of view. Also, 76+5 = 81. So that means that roughly 10% would be impacts on each side, which is much more consistent with the 5% rear impacts. Even stock exhausts on cruisers produce a descent amount of noise. Many Harley cruisers, although stock, will still have pipes you can hear. The same applies to many metric cruisers. Could it be that because the sound of pipes is more effective at making your presence known rearward that they actually help prevent some rear end collisions? That would be a possible explanation for the disproportionate frontal impacts. I can’t prove this, but I would very much like to see a study done. Will rear end impacts increase when you put a completely silent exhaust on a cruiser? Now that would be a great study. Also if you think about it, a motorcycle going to collide with something else at the front has more control over that impact. They can brake, swerve, or accelerate. An impact from the rear only allows for swerving and accelerating and that is if you have the room to move. The horn on a motorcycle is usually mounted toward the front, so why doesn’t the biker just use the horn to prevent at least some of the frontal impacts? Like Ken said it’s mounted in the right location and produces the right high frequency sound. I have reason to suspect that something else is going on here. Another possibility is just bad driving. If these frontal impacts are happening because of biker mistakes such as going wide in a turn, or not being able to brake in time, or not paying attention, then really nothing can prevent that except good training. In my opinion, this doesn’t really offer conclusive proof against loud pipes. It would require further study.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arguably, the louder exhaust may have provided some added conspicuity. But evidence suggests that it is better to make yourself more visible, by tactics such as wearing bright clothing, and using lane positions that keep you in sight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
C.C.Sinned
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part three
Yes, being seen is more important than being heard but there are only two dimensions in riding; sight and sound. Not only being seen, but being heard as well adds an additional benefit. You are covering both realms then. In the end, don't good riders look for additional ways to be more conspicuous for that slight advantage? Those slight advantages add up. On some drivers getting their attention might work by wearing bright cloths, but on some drivers loud pipes might work better. What evidence suggests that using tactics such as bright clothing is better? I would like to see sources cited here. From what I know, there really haven’t been any studies done on loud pipes. If that is the case, then you can’t say that bright clothing is better because you have nothing to compare it to. If I’m wrong, then I would be interested in those studies.
quote:
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Riders who rely on noisy pipes rather than keen riding strategies are probably putting themselves at increased risk.
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Yes they are, but so are those riders that rely on bright clothing than keen riding strategies. Same thing with those riders who rely on bright headlights. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
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quote:
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If it isn't obvious, the majority of citizens don't ride motorcycles, and therefore most people consider motorcycle sounds are obnoxious noise, not acceptable music.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
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Some municipalities and private associations have gone so far as to ban all motorcycle from certain areas because of the noise generated by a few riders.
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quote:
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In Europe, many of the best mountain passes have been closed to motorcyclist because of noise.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that is the real issue. There is no doubt in my mind that loud pipes provide a clear advantage. One day when I have the time I may actually do a study to prove my ramblings with hard data. However, people are close minded and discriminate against motorcyclists. I can whip out my two stroke engine snow blower that is twice as loud as any straight pipes and spews white smoke out the exhaust and it's ok. The same is ok if it's a lawn mower. Chain saw? No problem neighbor. But when a motorcycle rides by with loud pipes, then how dare they disturb the environment. ?!?!?!?!?! Why weren't you complaining when you were inhaling the oil burned by my two-stroke snow blower engine?
But no matter how unfair and stupid people are the real issue remains. Those same people will go and vote on legislation against motorcycles even if it's unfounded. Sad but true. However, I do still believe that loud pipes give an advantage to bikers. No loud pipes themselves won't save your life, but they will help others be MORE aware of your presence. Bright cloths alone won't help save your life but neither will anything else. Think about it.
Yes, being seen is more important than being heard but there are only two dimensions in riding; sight and sound. Not only being seen, but being heard as well adds an additional benefit. You are covering both realms then. In the end, don't good riders look for additional ways to be more conspicuous for that slight advantage? Those slight advantages add up. On some drivers getting their attention might work by wearing bright cloths, but on some drivers loud pipes might work better. What evidence suggests that using tactics such as bright clothing is better? I would like to see sources cited here. From what I know, there really haven’t been any studies done on loud pipes. If that is the case, then you can’t say that bright clothing is better because you have nothing to compare it to. If I’m wrong, then I would be interested in those studies.
quote:
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Riders who rely on noisy pipes rather than keen riding strategies are probably putting themselves at increased risk.
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Yes they are, but so are those riders that rely on bright clothing than keen riding strategies. Same thing with those riders who rely on bright headlights. Thus, that is not a valid criticism of loud pipes.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
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If it isn't obvious, the majority of citizens don't ride motorcycles, and therefore most people consider motorcycle sounds are obnoxious noise, not acceptable music.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some municipalities and private associations have gone so far as to ban all motorcycle from certain areas because of the noise generated by a few riders.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Europe, many of the best mountain passes have been closed to motorcyclist because of noise.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that is the real issue. There is no doubt in my mind that loud pipes provide a clear advantage. One day when I have the time I may actually do a study to prove my ramblings with hard data. However, people are close minded and discriminate against motorcyclists. I can whip out my two stroke engine snow blower that is twice as loud as any straight pipes and spews white smoke out the exhaust and it's ok. The same is ok if it's a lawn mower. Chain saw? No problem neighbor. But when a motorcycle rides by with loud pipes, then how dare they disturb the environment. ?!?!?!?!?! Why weren't you complaining when you were inhaling the oil burned by my two-stroke snow blower engine?
But no matter how unfair and stupid people are the real issue remains. Those same people will go and vote on legislation against motorcycles even if it's unfounded. Sad but true. However, I do still believe that loud pipes give an advantage to bikers. No loud pipes themselves won't save your life, but they will help others be MORE aware of your presence. Bright cloths alone won't help save your life but neither will anything else. Think about it.
EyesBlueDeaf
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That's not true. I got 2 interpreters for my classes. You did not try hard enough or follow through enough, that's all.... and I passed the test.Chelle said:
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A bit off point, but it's about noise...
There was a very old front tine tiller (circa 1930's) that churns up the soil for gardening that we had, it's loud as a harley motorcycle revving. It was so loud that it made my eyes rattle a little! It had a 4 stroke 1 cylinder engine producing about 7 h.p.
There was a very old front tine tiller (circa 1930's) that churns up the soil for gardening that we had, it's loud as a harley motorcycle revving. It was so loud that it made my eyes rattle a little! It had a 4 stroke 1 cylinder engine producing about 7 h.p.
Flying Fingers
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Hi there!
Sorry to jump on at the end of a long thread, but we have rides!
I have an 89 Shadow 1100 and my fiance has a 93 Shadow 1100, we just got them, tooooooo bad it's always raining here now, can't wait for spring!
I'll see if I can dig up some photos, my bike isn't too pretty yet, it needs to be repainted!
For you car enthusiasts, I also have a 1966 Datsun 1600...sweet!!
Sorry to jump on at the end of a long thread, but we have rides!
I have an 89 Shadow 1100 and my fiance has a 93 Shadow 1100, we just got them, tooooooo bad it's always raining here now, can't wait for spring!
I'll see if I can dig up some photos, my bike isn't too pretty yet, it needs to be repainted!
For you car enthusiasts, I also have a 1966 Datsun 1600...sweet!!