Are you saying you wouldn't check out your surgeons credentials before he operated on you? Wouldn't you want to know how many of this type he had perfomed. Wouldn't you like references?
Anyone Else Feel Like They Have Asperger Syndrome?
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Are you saying you wouldn't check out your surgeons credentials before he operated on you? Wouldn't you want to know how many of this type he had perfomed. Wouldn't you like references?
jillio
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Absolutely.
jillio
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What does that have to do with naturopaths not being medical practitioners? You pulled that one from the twilight zone.
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Yes it's a start for all. I took a couple of courses that you listed. It was fun. professors were great (no i did not ride in the bus). Age is irrelevant. What's at issue is your qualification. The face that you are unlicensed/un-certified is questionable and brings skepticism. Would you want to have a surgery performed by a surgeon with only undergraduate degree?
It's ok to state your opinion/thought on certain procedure based on your life experience or whatsoever but to debate its validity and to denounce other known medical procedures.... that's a whole different story. In order to defend your position - it is best to present it with support of well-documented/peer-reviewed cases, data, reports, studies, etc. that are recognized by medical community - not some website links.
that's all. it's simple. I understand what you're trying to say but you just need to present us with well-founded sources, not some websites and you need to be able to argue your case in your own words. That is the best way to demonstrate to prove your extensive knowledge and competence in this matter - you don't even need a ph.d but it helps a great deal. that's all. it's easy.
you should understand and expect that in medical field - any theory/procedure/argument would be subjected to intensive scrutiny which is why it's important to be able to defend your case with sources and more importantly - your ability to withstand the scrutiny.
There you go putting words in my mouth again. I do not think they are unethical. I think the tool is tool little understood to be used as it is now. And there are unethical practitioners in every field.To think there are not is naieve And memory recovery is only one area, I clearly stated that. It is unethical to twist peoples words around and imply they said one thing when they didn't. If you are so concerned about inacuracies you should not put words in peoples mouths.
jillio
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I don't find it difficult to believe that you have an Associate's Degree. I find it difficult to believe that you would allow that Associate's Degree to make you so presumptuous as to question a professional with many more years advanced study on her particular area of expertise. Quite frankly, I attempted to have a civil discussion with you, despite the fact that from the first post you made, you were challenging and insulting.
Empathy and understanding are but two clinician characteristics that are required. Another one is to be able to see through people's BS and to call them on it.
jillio
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Thank you, Bott. And again, you are correct.
jillio
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First of all, you are again making assumptions without all of the facts, and I would venture a guess that you are totally incorrect on this one, just as you have been on the other assumptions you have made with lack of sufficient knowledge.
Secondly, that is where you are making your mistake. You can't determine the cause of the harm without the education that provides you with the skills to make that determination. You really have no idea whether it was expected course of a disorder, or something the therapist did, something the client did, or something created environmentally until you have the advanced training that permits you to make such a determination. And an AA does not provide you with that knowledge or that training.
jillio
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Perhaps you have very little understanding of the tool, and I would say definitively that this is most certainly the case. However, because you don't have an in depth understanding is not an assumption that a clinically trained psychologist doesn't have an in depth understanding. You are going on the assumption that everyone has as little knowledge on the subject as you do, and thank Gawd, that is not the case.
And it isn't necessary for me to twist your words. Its right there.
jillio
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I just checked out a curriculum for a naturopath 4 yr degree. Only 1.5 semester hours out of the entire 8 semesters of study is spent learning anything about psychological assessment. In contrast, a Master's level degree in counseling requires appproximately 16 quarter hours spent on assessment alone, (not to mention twice that many spent on theory and technique and diagnosis and treatment topics) and about 1000 hours of supervised clinical experience. Which do you think would be more qualified to assess, diagnose, and treat mental disorders?
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jillio
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naturopathy
Naturopathy is a system of therapy and treatment which relies exclusively on natural remedies, such as sunlight, air, water, supplemented with diet and therapies such as massage. However, some naturopaths have been known to prescribe such unnatural treatments as colon hydrotherapy for such diseases as asthma and arthritis.
Naturopathy is based on the belief that the body is self-healing. The body will repair itself and recover from illness spontaneously if it is in a healthy environment. Naturopaths have many remedies and recommendations for creating a healthy environment so the body can spontaneously heal itself.
Naturopaths claim to be holistic, which means they believe that the natural body is joined to a supernatural soul and a non-physical mind and the three must be treated as a unit, whatever that means. Naturopathy is fond of such terms as "balance" and "harmony" and "energy." It is often rooted in mysticism and a metaphysical belief in vitalism (Barrett).
Naturopaths are also prone to make grandiose claims about some herb or remedy that can enhance the immune system. Yet, only medical doctors are competent to do the tests necessary to determine if an individual's immune system is in any way depressed (Green). Naturopaths assume that many diseases, including cancer, are caused by faulty immune systems. (The immune system, in simple terms, is the body's own set of mechanisms that attacks anything that isn't "self." Although, in some cases rather than attack "foreign bodies" such as viruses, fungi, or bacteria, the immune response goes haywire and the body attacks it own cells, e.g., in lupus, multiple sclerosis, and rheumatoid arthritis.) Naturopaths also promote the idea that the mind can be used to enhance the immune system and thereby improve one's health. However Dr. Saul Green argues that
there are no reports in the scientific literature to support the contention that any AM [alternative medicine] operates through an established immunological mechanism. Regardless of the means used to evoke an antitumor response, all the evidence available from clinical and animal studies clearly shows that only after the attention of the NIS [normal immune system] has been attracted by some external manipulation of its components, is there any recognition by NIS of the existence of the tumor (Stutman, O. and Cuttito MJ. (1980). In: R.B. Herberman (ed). Natural Cell Medicated Immunity Against Tumors. N.Y. Academic Press: 431-432.). All the evidence amassed over the past 30 years provides a clear answer to the question, “Does any AM treatment stimulate the NIS and cause it to identify and destroy new cancer cells when they appear?” The answer clearly is NO! (Green 1999: 20)
Furthermore, the evidence that such diseases as cancer occur mainly in people with compromised immune systems is lacking. This is an assumption made by many naturopaths but it is not supported by the scientific evidence. Immunologists have shown that the most common cancers flourish in hosts with fully functional and competent immune systems (Green 1999: 18). The notion that vitamins and colloidal minerals, herbs, coffee enemas, colonic irrigation, Laetrile, meditation, etc., can enhance the immune system and thereby help restore health is bogus. On the one hand, it is not necessarily the case that a diseased person even has a compromised immune system. On the other hand, there is no scientific evidence that any of these remedies either enhance the immune system or make it possible for the body to heal itself.
Naturopathy is often, if not always, practiced in combination with other forms of "alternative" health practices. Bastyr University, a leading school of naturopathy since 1978, offers instruction in such things as acupuncture and "spirituality." Much of the advice of naturopaths is sound: exercise, quit smoking, eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, practice good nutrition. Claims that these and practices such as colonic irrigation or coffee enemas "detoxify" the body or enhance the immune system or promote "homeostasis," "harmony," "balance," "vitality," and the like are exaggerated and not backed up by sound research.
naturopathy
Naturopathy is a system of therapy and treatment which relies exclusively on natural remedies, such as sunlight, air, water, supplemented with diet and therapies such as massage. However, some naturopaths have been known to prescribe such unnatural treatments as colon hydrotherapy for such diseases as asthma and arthritis.
Naturopathy is based on the belief that the body is self-healing. The body will repair itself and recover from illness spontaneously if it is in a healthy environment. Naturopaths have many remedies and recommendations for creating a healthy environment so the body can spontaneously heal itself.
Naturopaths claim to be holistic, which means they believe that the natural body is joined to a supernatural soul and a non-physical mind and the three must be treated as a unit, whatever that means. Naturopathy is fond of such terms as "balance" and "harmony" and "energy." It is often rooted in mysticism and a metaphysical belief in vitalism (Barrett).
Naturopaths are also prone to make grandiose claims about some herb or remedy that can enhance the immune system. Yet, only medical doctors are competent to do the tests necessary to determine if an individual's immune system is in any way depressed (Green). Naturopaths assume that many diseases, including cancer, are caused by faulty immune systems. (The immune system, in simple terms, is the body's own set of mechanisms that attacks anything that isn't "self." Although, in some cases rather than attack "foreign bodies" such as viruses, fungi, or bacteria, the immune response goes haywire and the body attacks it own cells, e.g., in lupus, multiple sclerosis, and rheumatoid arthritis.) Naturopaths also promote the idea that the mind can be used to enhance the immune system and thereby improve one's health. However Dr. Saul Green argues that
there are no reports in the scientific literature to support the contention that any AM [alternative medicine] operates through an established immunological mechanism. Regardless of the means used to evoke an antitumor response, all the evidence available from clinical and animal studies clearly shows that only after the attention of the NIS [normal immune system] has been attracted by some external manipulation of its components, is there any recognition by NIS of the existence of the tumor (Stutman, O. and Cuttito MJ. (1980). In: R.B. Herberman (ed). Natural Cell Medicated Immunity Against Tumors. N.Y. Academic Press: 431-432.). All the evidence amassed over the past 30 years provides a clear answer to the question, “Does any AM treatment stimulate the NIS and cause it to identify and destroy new cancer cells when they appear?” The answer clearly is NO! (Green 1999: 20)
Furthermore, the evidence that such diseases as cancer occur mainly in people with compromised immune systems is lacking. This is an assumption made by many naturopaths but it is not supported by the scientific evidence. Immunologists have shown that the most common cancers flourish in hosts with fully functional and competent immune systems (Green 1999: 18). The notion that vitamins and colloidal minerals, herbs, coffee enemas, colonic irrigation, Laetrile, meditation, etc., can enhance the immune system and thereby help restore health is bogus. On the one hand, it is not necessarily the case that a diseased person even has a compromised immune system. On the other hand, there is no scientific evidence that any of these remedies either enhance the immune system or make it possible for the body to heal itself.
Naturopathy is often, if not always, practiced in combination with other forms of "alternative" health practices. Bastyr University, a leading school of naturopathy since 1978, offers instruction in such things as acupuncture and "spirituality." Much of the advice of naturopaths is sound: exercise, quit smoking, eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, practice good nutrition. Claims that these and practices such as colonic irrigation or coffee enemas "detoxify" the body or enhance the immune system or promote "homeostasis," "harmony," "balance," "vitality," and the like are exaggerated and not backed up by sound research.
naturopathy
The naturopathic physician is defined by the U.S. Department of Labor as one who “diagnoses, treats, and cares for patients, using a system of practice that bases its treatment of all physiological functions and abnormal conditions on natural laws governing the body, utilizes physiological, psychological and mechanical methods, such as air, water, heat, earth, phytotherapy (treatment by use of plants), electrotherapy, physiotherapy, minor surgery, mechanotherapy, naturopathic corrections and manipulation, and all natural methods or modalities, together with natural medicines, natural processed foods, herbs, and natural remedies.
Excludes major surgery, therapeutic use of x-ray and radium, and prescribing of drugs, except those assimilable substances containing elements or compounds which are compounds of body tissues and are physiologically compatible to body processes for maintenance of life.”
Since you seem to value only information presented by professionals I have copied your post and will ask my ND for a response. In the meantime here is the real information on the course of study. This four year course is after getting a BA.
Program of Study for Naturopathic Doctors
The N.D. degree course of study at National College of Naturopathic Medicine is an intensive four-year doctoral program that prepares candidates for state board licensing examinations and the general practice of naturopathic medicine. Upon graduation, alumni are eligible to sit for board examinations in states and provinces that license naturopathic physicians. The core, or required, curriculum provides the foundation and skills necessary for naturopathic family practice.
First year comprises the study of the normal structure and function of the body with a solid introduction to naturopathic theory, philosophy, and therapeutics.
Second year focuses on the study of disease and diagnosis with the beginning of the botanical, therapeutic manipulation, clinical nutrition, and homeopathic medicine sequences. To enter into the clinical training of the third year, students must pass all basic sciences and diagnostic courses as well as a clinic entrance examination.
Third year continues with focus on the botanical, manipulation, clinical nutrition, and homeopathic medicine sequences, begins the organ systems courses (which emphasize case management), and gives major emphasis to clinical training. Students must pass a clinical primary status exam to proceed in the clinic.
Fourth year continues the organ systems courses. The major focus of the fourth year is practical clinical training, working side by side with licensed physicians caring for patients. A clinic proficiency exam ensures clinical competency prior to graduation.
Because the program is rigorous and the course load heavy, students may choose to complete the N.D. degree in five rather than four years. In some cases, students may be required to be in the five-year track. The student may take no more than seven years to complete the program.
What education and training do naturopathic doctors have?
Naturopathic physicians have a minimum of 7 years of post-secondary education including:
* At least 3 years of university including prerequisites in biology, psychology, English, general chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry. Most naturopathic physicians have an undergraduate degree.
* Four years of naturopathic medical education from one of six recognized schools in North America. Click here for a list of accredited schools. These schools are carefully regulated to ensure a high quality, standardized education. The education required to become a licensed naturopathic doctor is rigorous and includes four intense years of theoretical learning and clinical training. Upon completion of this education, naturopathic physicians are qualified to work as primary care physicians. As an example, my education at the Boucher Institute of Naturopathic Medicine was divided into academic and clinical streams.
* Academics – 3500 classroom hours divided amongst:
• health sciences – much like the curriculum at a conventional medical school, the first two years of naturopathic medicine are spent gaining an in depth understanding of physiology, biochemistry, anatomy, pathology, microbiology, neuroanatomy, physical clinical diagnosis, differential diagnosis, laboratory diagnosis and diagnostic imaging
• therapeutic modalities – throughout the four years there are courses in botanical medicine, clinical nutrition, homeopathy, psychology, Traditional Oriental Medicine and physical medicine
• clinical sciences – building on the foundation of basic medical sciences, third and fourth year students take courses necessary to be a primary care physician such as pharmacology, dermatology, environmental health, gynecology, oncology, obstetrics, pediatrics and geriatrics
• professional development – this includes courses in ethics, personal wholeness, jurisprudence and practice management
* Clinical training – 1200 hours in the teaching clinic, treating patients under the supervision of a licensed naturopathic physician and 300 hours observing naturopathic doctors in their own offices.
jillio
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My post speaks for itself.
I have already posted the curriculum for a naturopath.
This discussion needs to go to the proper thread. In this one we are discussing mental disorders. There is another thread devoted to naturopathy. Lets not confuse the two.
Oceanbreeze
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I've read this entire thread and I must say that I find certain viewpoints frightening. In no way, would I go to someone who was underqualified to treat me or my loved one. Furthermore, I would urge everyone reading this thread to check out the credentials of anyone treating them or their child. If that person has LESS than what is required for that particular field, RUN! Find someone else! That person doesn't have a clue what they're saying or doing!
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most importantly - ALWAYS ask for credential before HEARING any advice from that person!
Oceanbreeze
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Exactly! Thank you!
The amount of harm someone underqualified could do to someone is frightening.
Oceanbreeze
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Qualifications for a nutrionist
I took the time to google the qualifications for a nutritionist/dietitician. As previously stated, if the person you are seeing has LESS than the minimum requirement of a Bachelor's Degree, I would RUN!
Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement [About this section] Back to Top
Dietitians and nutritionists need at least a bachelor’s degree. Licensure, certification, or registration requirements vary by State.
Education and training. Becoming a dietitian or nutritionist usually requires at least a bachelor’s degree in dietetics, foods and nutrition, food service systems management, or a related area. Graduate degrees also are available. College students in these majors take courses in foods, nutrition, institution management, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, microbiology, and physiology. Other suggested courses include business, mathematics, statistics, computer science, psychology, sociology, and economics. High school students interested in becoming a dietitian or nutritionist should take courses in biology, chemistry, mathematics, health, and communications.
As of 2007, there were 281 bachelor’s degree programs and 22 master’s degree programs approved by the American Dietetic Association’s Commission on Accreditation for Dietetics Education.
Licensure. Of the 48 States and jurisdictions with laws governing dietetics, 35 require licensure, 12 require statutory certification, and 1 requires registration. Requirements vary by State. As a result, interested candidates should determine the requirements of the State in which they want to work before sitting for any exam.
In States that require licensure, only people who are licensed can work as dietitians and nutritionists. States that require statutory certification limit the use of occupational titles to people who meet certain requirements; individuals without certification can still practice as a dietitian or nutritionist but without using certain titles. Registration is the least restrictive form of State regulation of dietitians and nutritionists. Unregistered people are permitted to practice as a dietitian or nutritionist.
Certification and other qualifications. Although not required, the Commission on Dietetic Registration of the American Dietetic Association awards the Registered Dietitian credential to those who pass an exam after completing academic coursework and a supervised internship. This certification is different from the statutory certification regulated by some States and discussed in the previous section. To maintain a Registered Dietitian status, workers must complete at least 75 credit hours in approved continuing education classes every 5 years.
A supervised internship, required for certification, can be completed in one of two ways. The first requires the completion of a program accredited by the Commission on Dietetic Registration. As of 2007, there were 53 accredited programs that combined academic and supervised practice experience and generally lasted 4 to 5 years. The second option requires the completion of 900 hours of supervised practice experience in any of the 265 accredited internships. These internships may be full-time programs lasting 6 to 12 months or part-time programs lasting 2 years.
Advancement. Experienced dietitians may advance to management positions, such as assistant director, associate director, or director of a dietetic department, or may become self-employed. Some dietitians specialize in areas such as renal, diabetic, cardiovascular, or pediatric dietetics. Others leave the occupation to become sales representatives for equipment, pharmaceutical, or food manufacturers. A master’s degree can help some workers to advance their careers, particularly in career paths related to research, advanced clinical positions, or public health.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos077.htm#training
I took the time to google the qualifications for a nutritionist/dietitician. As previously stated, if the person you are seeing has LESS than the minimum requirement of a Bachelor's Degree, I would RUN!
Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement [About this section] Back to Top
Dietitians and nutritionists need at least a bachelor’s degree. Licensure, certification, or registration requirements vary by State.
Education and training. Becoming a dietitian or nutritionist usually requires at least a bachelor’s degree in dietetics, foods and nutrition, food service systems management, or a related area. Graduate degrees also are available. College students in these majors take courses in foods, nutrition, institution management, chemistry, biochemistry, biology, microbiology, and physiology. Other suggested courses include business, mathematics, statistics, computer science, psychology, sociology, and economics. High school students interested in becoming a dietitian or nutritionist should take courses in biology, chemistry, mathematics, health, and communications.
As of 2007, there were 281 bachelor’s degree programs and 22 master’s degree programs approved by the American Dietetic Association’s Commission on Accreditation for Dietetics Education.
Licensure. Of the 48 States and jurisdictions with laws governing dietetics, 35 require licensure, 12 require statutory certification, and 1 requires registration. Requirements vary by State. As a result, interested candidates should determine the requirements of the State in which they want to work before sitting for any exam.
In States that require licensure, only people who are licensed can work as dietitians and nutritionists. States that require statutory certification limit the use of occupational titles to people who meet certain requirements; individuals without certification can still practice as a dietitian or nutritionist but without using certain titles. Registration is the least restrictive form of State regulation of dietitians and nutritionists. Unregistered people are permitted to practice as a dietitian or nutritionist.
Certification and other qualifications. Although not required, the Commission on Dietetic Registration of the American Dietetic Association awards the Registered Dietitian credential to those who pass an exam after completing academic coursework and a supervised internship. This certification is different from the statutory certification regulated by some States and discussed in the previous section. To maintain a Registered Dietitian status, workers must complete at least 75 credit hours in approved continuing education classes every 5 years.
A supervised internship, required for certification, can be completed in one of two ways. The first requires the completion of a program accredited by the Commission on Dietetic Registration. As of 2007, there were 53 accredited programs that combined academic and supervised practice experience and generally lasted 4 to 5 years. The second option requires the completion of 900 hours of supervised practice experience in any of the 265 accredited internships. These internships may be full-time programs lasting 6 to 12 months or part-time programs lasting 2 years.
Advancement. Experienced dietitians may advance to management positions, such as assistant director, associate director, or director of a dietetic department, or may become self-employed. Some dietitians specialize in areas such as renal, diabetic, cardiovascular, or pediatric dietetics. Others leave the occupation to become sales representatives for equipment, pharmaceutical, or food manufacturers. A master’s degree can help some workers to advance their careers, particularly in career paths related to research, advanced clinical positions, or public health.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos077.htm#training
jillio
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Thanks for that info, Oceanbreeze. As is eveidenced by this, as well as the qualifications I listed earlier for a clinical psychologist or a clinical counselor, there is extensive training that goes with these careers, and individuals are held accountable for their actions through licensure and certification.
Education, licensure, and certification all serve to protect the public from unscrupulous providers. Always, always check the credentials of your care provider.
Education, licensure, and certification all serve to protect the public from unscrupulous providers. Always, always check the credentials of your care provider.
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and also - you may advise someone on something that you are qualified/certified/licensed for it.