Any Vegan/Vegetarians Out There?

DeafCaroline said:
you eat at Taco Bell but you have a problem with people supporting companies and factory farms that consistently torture animals for human consumption?

Err...
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hence... my Post #83
Jiro said:
yea.

however - I'm cool with person's choice to be vegetarian for health reason. that's understandable and logical but I just can't get over it when a person chose to be a vegetarian cuz it sickens them to see poor Bambi being slaughtered. It just makes me wanna yank their chain because that person tends to be a huge hypocrite :nana:

don't take it wrong - I do believe that slaughterhouse and farms should be more humane and they should treat animals with dignity and respect. I can choose to not eat at McDonald if I disagree with they way they're raising and slaughtering animals and the way they cook it but it won't stop me from eating meat. since couple years ago, I rarely eat at franchise because they don't treat their food with respect. I eat locally.
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most of people I have encountered who converted to vegetarians/vegans solely based on "Poor Bambi" sympathy have comical reasoning for their stance against meat. very comical.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Maybe because kind and moral is not that common when it comes to treatment of animals. It's too bad you missed the point of "earthlings". And also, no, not all you see in earthlings is a slaughterhouse. Did you see the whole film? It shows how animals raised for profit are treated. i.e. pet stores, puppy mills, animals shelters and factory farms.
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Yes I did and it has not changed me to become vegetarian.

All I have is one comment for Earthlings movie - "yea so?"
 
Jiro said:
Yes I did and it has not changed me to become vegetarian.

All I have is one comment for Earthlings movie - "yea and.... so?"
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Oh, so cruelty towards animals gets a "yeah...so?" response from you? Would you say the same thing if I decide that your cat looks really delicious and kill it so I can eat it because I'm hungry and there's nothing wrong with eating animals?

Or would you still shrug and say so? if I decide your dog should live in a wire cage that is too small for him and the wires would make his feet hurt all day every day?

Jiro, c'mon. I find your post disturbing that in face of such widespread cruelty, you shrug and say so? 10 billion animals are killed every year for their meat and tens of millions of animals are killed in shelters every year because no one wants them. Puppies and kittens are raised on cruel mills and many die because of their living condition and you shrug and say so?

Sad.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Oh, so cruelty towards animals gets a "yeah...so?" response from you? Would you say the same thing if I decide that your cat looks really delicious and kill it so I can eat it because I'm hungry and there's nothing wrong with eating animals?

Or would you still shrug and say so? if I decide your dog should live in a wire cage that is too small for him and the wires would make his feet hurt all day every day?

Jiro, c'mon. I find your post disturbing that in face of such widespread cruelty, you shrug and say so? 10 billion animals are killed every year for their meat and tens of millions of animals are killed in shelters every year because no one wants them. Puppies and kittens are raised on cruel mills and many die because of their living condition and you shrug and say so?

Sad.
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so... what do you propose? there are only 2 solutions - extinct them. or we go extinct so that this won't happen.

Yes I said "yea so?" because what are you trying to tell me? I don't do any of these cruel stuff that you mentioned in your post and I don't deny the fact that animal cruelty is happening. So why pull the "Poor Bambi" card on me or anybody else? You cannot convince people logically and rationally without playing on their emotions? How does that make you different from politicians using fear-mongering tactics to make people support their war games?

Whenever people use "Poor Bambi" card... it usually reeks of hypocrisy. This tactic always fail and it never works. That applies for certain people using fear-mongering propaganda.
 
Jiro said:
so... what do you propose? there are only 2 solutions - extinct them. or we go extinct so that this won't happen.

Yes I said "yea so?" because what are you trying to tell me? I don't do any of these cruel stuff that you mentioned in your post and I don't deny the fact that animal cruelty is happening. So why pull the "Poor Bambi" card on me or anybody else? You cannot convince people logically and rationally without playing on their emotions? How does that make you different from fear-mongering politicians to make people support their war games?

Whenever people use "Poor Bambi" card... it usually reeks of hypocrisy. This tactic always fail and it never works. That applies for certain people using fear-mongering propaganda.
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I didn't play the poor Bambi card but if we're going to talk about animal cruelty, we have to acknowledge it for what it is and acknowledge what kind of cruelty takes place. How can one discuss the graphic nature of this cruelty without being accused of playing the poor bambi card? How can anyone understand the extent of this cruelty if we don't illustrate exactly what it is with photos and videos and descriptive writing? Just the word "cruelty" alone doesn't describe anything.

Secondly, there are solutions - don't buy from factory farms, adopt animals, not buy them from pet stores or puppy mills. The more informed you are, the better choices you make. That's the whole point of earthlings - to bring the truth about such industries to the public - to make them see for themselves what really goes on because it's not exactly on the front page of the news every day, it's always hidden from view so it's easy for us to buy meat at the grocery store completely clueless to how that meat came about in the first place, how it was raised, how it was treated, how it was fed. Films like earthlings show humans exactly the entire process from the day a cow or a chicken was born to when they are slaughtered.

If one cannot bear witness to such processes, then maybe they shouldn't be endorsing it with their dollars which is another point earthlings was making. If you cannot bear to keep your eyes open and see for yourself what really goes in terms of cruelty in animal shelters, puppy mills and factory farms, then don't support it.
 
This is the part of going vegetarian that I really don't like. I did it for the healthy benefits and such. I just detest all the stuff regarding the "cruelty" to animals. A lot of animals were bred or raised purely for food. A person does not need to see all the gory stuff that a few places are guilty of. I have been through some very clean and humane cattle processing and pork processing plants before. Yes, there are the crappy places, but then they do not get inspected like they should.

I have gone vegetarian on the advice of my doctor. He thinks it will help me in my efforts to lose weight, gain more energy and achieve overall healthiness. I will be monitored by the doctor and my mother will be as well. She will have to have regular blood work, but then she already does once a month as it is.
 
KristinaB said:
This is the part of going vegetarian that I really don't like. I did it for the healthy benefits and such. I just detest all the stuff regarding the "cruelty" to animals. A lot of animals were bred or raised purely for food. A person does not need to see all the gory stuff that a few places are guilty of. I have been through some very clean and humane cattle processing and pork processing plants before. Yes, there are the crappy places, but then they do not get inspected like they should.

I have gone vegetarian on the advice of my doctor. He thinks it will help me in my efforts to lose weight, gain more energy and achieve overall healthiness. I will be monitored by the doctor and my mother will be as well. She will have to have regular blood work, but then she already does once a month as it is.
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Sigh. It's not just "a few places". Whatever. People will believe what they want to believe.
 
DeafCaroline said:
I didn't play the poor Bambi card but if we're going to talk about animal cruelty, we have to acknowledge it for what it is and acknowledge what kind of cruelty takes place. How can one discuss the graphic nature of this cruelty without being accused of playing the poor bambi card? How can anyone understand the extent of this cruelty if we don't illustrate exactly what it is with photos and videos and descriptive writing? Just the word "cruelty" alone doesn't describe anything.

Secondly, there are solutions - don't buy from factory farms, adopt animals, not buy them from pet stores or puppy mills. The more informed you are, the better choices you make. That's the whole point of earthlings - to bring the truth about such industries to the public - to make them see for themselves what really goes on because it's not exactly on the front page of the news every day, it's always hidden from view so it's easy for us to buy meat at the grocery store completely clueless to how that meat came about in the first place, how it was raised, how it was treated, how it was fed. Films like earthlings show humans exactly the entire process from the day a cow or a chicken was born to when they are slaughtered.

If one cannot bear witness to such processes, then maybe they shouldn't be endorsing it with their dollars which is another point earthlings was making. If you cannot bear to keep your eyes open and see for yourself what really goes in terms of cruelty in animal shelters, puppy mills and factory farms, then don't support it.
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Was it necessary to make people change their mind by recommending Earthlings video?

You're talking about just one bad slaughterhouse. one bad puppy mill. one bad farmer. It is no different from politicians using fear-mongering tactics to "show" the truth to people to gain their favors.

There are other ways to show the truth and to convince people but this is not the right way to do so. Food, Inc. is a much better method to provoke people into having an intellectual discussion about our food and animals with all sides factored in.

Earthlings is stupid. It did not give me anything to make an informed decision. It's one-sided and it's a fear-mongering video to disgust people into giving up meat and they didn't realize that they will be supporting vegetable industry which will eventually end up like meat industry - vegetable cruelty... forcing plants to grow unnaturally during out of season and beyond its original size. investing in genetically modified food. etc.

You want people to stop supporting puppy mill? Then educate the public about the misconception with spaying/neutering, consequence of not spaying/neutering their pets, etc.... not fear-mongering them by showing them animal cruelty behind the scene.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Sigh. It's not just "a few places". Whatever. People will believe what they want to believe.
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One can say same for you. You seem to believe most slaughterhouses do this horrible stuff. You seem to believe that it's best if we all don't eat meat so that slaughterhouse will go away and cows/pigs/chickens will live happily ever and get to live to old age.

That (bold printed above).... is an animal cruelty too.
 
Jiro said:
One can say same for you. You seem to believe most slaughterhouses do this horrible stuff. You seem to believe that it's best if we all don't eat meat so that slaughterhouse will go away and cows/pigs/chickens will live happily ever and get to live to old age.

That (bold printed above).... is an animal cruelty too.
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No, I said we shouldn't support FACTORY farming. Have been saying that the whole time.

And I am an advcocate for animals so I do a lot of research and no, I don't just read radical advocates' websites, I also do a lot of reading on government's websites in relation to agricultural farming and also the news in relation to factory farming.

I am one of the most skeptical people you will ever meet so you can be sure that I researched carefully before making opinions for I don't like PETA any more than you do for the exact same reasons. I just like plain straightforward facts and having a grip on reality.
 
DeafCaroline said:
No, I said we shouldn't support FACTORY farming. Have been saying that the whole time.

And I am an advcocate for animals so I do a lot of research and no, I don't just read radical advocates' websites, I also do a lot of reading on government's websites in relation to agricultural farming and also the news in relation to factory farming.

I am one of the most skeptical people you will ever meet so you can be sure that I researched carefully before making opinions for I don't like PETA any more than you do for the exact same reasons. I just like plain straightforward facts and having a grip on reality.
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yea? then you shouldn't have suggested Earthlings since it's misleading.
 
Jiro said:
You want people to stop supporting puppy mill? Then educate the public about the misconception with spaying/neutering, consequence of not spaying/neutering their pets, etc.... not fear-mongering them by showing them animal cruelty behind the scene.
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We, humans, are the ones imposing this cruelty so we might as well look at it for exactly what it is instead of saying 'well, we don't need to hear or see such things".

Yeah, we do. It's too easy to pretend it's not so bad if we haven't got a grasp of what such cruelty really means or in what forms it takes.

Anyway, I've had this argument so many times that I'm actually kinda weary of going through it again. So, backing out now.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Misleading how exactly?
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why did it not show both sides?

don't you think this video is very one-sided and that it can lead people to assume that most slaughterhouses are like this?
 
I havent seen this earthling video........ But... Factory farming - If you guys have any questions about it, I work in this very system every fall. I can tell you every pro/con about it.

I can even make a video that makes factory farming look great. I'm only a mile from two large feedlots.

The only cruelty at these feedlots I can see is that the cows wade around in mud sometimes after rain.
 
Actually, I think its more civil than hunting them down. This is a reason I haven't went out and killed a bambi or something of that nature. The factor of them running away injured is too much for me.
 
CSign said:
Another product you don't expect gelatin in: Power Bars.

Not the "regular" kind, but types like the "double chocolate brownie" and peanut butter. The kind that is thicker/creamier (don't know how else to describe) in the middle.
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Another one: Casein protein in almond cheese or some sort of cheese...

(Whey)
 
Wirelessly posted (sent from a smartphone. )

One sentence....yes one. We are ominvores and we eat both plant and animals, we have teeth designed to chew both plant and animals.
 
DeafCaroline said:
We, humans, are the ones imposing this cruelty so we might as well look at it for exactly what it is instead of saying 'well, we don't need to hear or see such things".

Yeah, we do. It's too easy to pretend it's not so bad if we haven't got a grasp of what such cruelty really means or in what forms it takes.

Anyway, I've had this argument so many times that I'm actually kinda weary of going through it again. So, backing out now.
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We are aware of it and we don't need to be shown like this in order to influence our choice into their favor. It's egregious and hypocritical. By doing that, you don't get to criticize about politicians or corporations because you're in same boat as them. A dirty fear-mongering business.

There are better ways to engage in intellectual conversation that will provoke people into thinking about choices they make. Let them think about it on their own terms without us influencing them with horrible stuff from both sides.
 
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