Alternatives to Animal testing.

dreama

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It is often assumed that the only alternative to Animal testing is human testing. This already happens since animals and humans function differantly. New drugs must be tested on humans after the animal testing has been completed. Far from improving medical progress, animal testing has been shown to hold research back. The more up to date testing using computer modeling is far more preferable.

Here is just one example of successes without Animal testing.
Read here:
TMS and brain function

Dr Hadwen Trust Research Fellowship 1998 — 2001
Using Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) to model brain damage in human subjects
V Walsh, M Rushworth and A Ellison, then at the Department of Experimental Psychology, University of Oxford

This Dr Hadwen Trust research grant to develop transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) has had wide-reaching applications, as the technique is now used internationally in neuroscience research, often in place of non-human primates.

Dr Hadwen Trust's Science Room: Success stories
 
This is just absurd, dreama. Of course human trials are conducted following the animal trials. The animal trials are intended to insure the safety of the medication for human use. The human trials test the effectiveness of the medication for the condition it is designed to treat, once animal trials have determined it to be safe to be introduced into the human body.

You may be comfortable taking a medication that has never been tested for safety nor approved for human use, but I doubt seriously that many people would be comfortable doing so. The purpose of a medication is to cure or treat an illness, not kill someone because it is unapproved as safe for human consumption.

BTW, they are using humans to test the transcranial magnetic stimulation. That is better than primates?
What about experimental surgical procedures? Do you want to be the first living being that the procedure is tried on, or would you prefer that it be perfected before the surgeon cuts into you?
 
This is just absurd, dreama. Of course human trials are conducted following the animal trials. The animal trials are intended to insure the safety of the medication for human use. The human trials test the effectiveness of the medication for the condition it is designed to treat, once animal trials have determined it to be safe to be introduced into the human body.

You may be comfortable taking a medication that has never been tested for safety nor approved for human use, but I doubt seriously that many people would be comfortable doing so. The purpose of a medication is to cure or treat an illness, not kill someone because it is unapproved as safe for human consumption.

What about experimental surgical procedures? Do you want to be the first living being that the procedure is tried on, or would you prefer that it be perfected before the surgeon cuts into you?[/QUOTE]

Interesting point. I don't know if you saw one of my posts discussing experimentation, but I made a comment supporting animal testing, and it had to do with having an experimental procedure when I was six that saved my life. At the time I had the procedure, there had only been four other children who had undergone the procedure before me. Two had lived, but two had died. I was the fifth child to undergo the procedure in this country and the third child to have survived it. There was also issues with brain damage as well. One of the children that survived came out of surgery severely brain damaged due to lack of oxygen.

What I am describing is a bit different than what you said, but I agree with you completely. I also am extremely grateful for the experimentation that is done. I would be extremely wary of procedures where there was no testing of them on animal models. You just cannot come close to a comparison between data conducted using animals and those using computer models. I would much prefer testing be done on animals.
 
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There is alarming evidence that animal tests fail to protect us:

Six young men at Northwick Park hospital were nearly killed by a drug which they were given because it had been ‘proved safe’ in monkeys
Arthritis drug Vioxx – the greatest drug catastrophe in history – killed up to 140,000 people after being ‘proved safe’ in animals, including monkeys
92% of new drugs successful in animal studies go on to fail in clinical trials, as at Northwick Park – sometimes injuring or killing volunteers and patients
Extensive studies of animal tests’ ability to predict drugs’ and chemicals’ potential to cause cancer and birth defects have found them to be ineffective
Scientists are increasingly lamenting the failings of animal studies. Cancer Research UK acknowledges: ‘We do trials in people because animal models do not predict what will happen in humans’. See more quotes here

Safer Medicines Campaign
 
If you read my links you will find your questions answered. Please note that these are organistations against animal testing on Scientific grounds.

Since animal testing is misleading and doesn't promote anything then we HAVE to test on humans at some point anyway. Once they've finished torturing animals.

So your questions make no sense to me.
 
If you read my links you will find your questions answered. Please note that these are organistations against animal testing on Scientific grounds.

Since animal testing is misleading and doesn't promote anything then we HAVE to test on humans at some point anyway. Once they've finished torturing animals.

So your questions make no sense to me.

Its not my questions that fail to make sense, but your reasoning.
 
I just wondering if the humans are welcome to volunteer for being tested, maybe to be paid?

I know it's strange question, but it will be strange if it's wrong to test on the human, while it's ok for animals to be test, you know what I mean..
 
I just wondering if the humans are welcome to volunteer for being tested, maybe to be paid?

I know it's strange question, but it will be strange if it's wrong to test on the human, while it's ok for animals to be test, you know what I mean..

I think human volunteers in trials are paid. Although unfortunately they are sometimes misled to believe the tests are safer then they are because they were tested on animals first.

Unfortunately things that have worked ok in animals do not work at all in human trials.
 
I just wondering if the humans are welcome to volunteer for being tested, maybe to be paid?

I know it's strange question, but it will be strange if it's wrong to test on the human, while it's ok for animals to be test, you know what I mean..

All drugs, before they can be sold, are subject to human trials. This is after animal trials has been done to develop and refine the medications and make sure that it is relatively safe for humans. Many drugs are tested in a double blind study where the volunteers have the disease the drug is being tested for, and most of these people are paid a small amount. Usually to cover time and travel expenses.

There are other experimental treatments that are available only at the hospital where they are being developed. Someone, for instance, who has a cancer that has not responded to conventional treatment, and the patient is dying will sometimes be offered the opportunity to engage in an experimental treatment. However, the restrictions for these are tight. And always, always, the individual has to be able to give fully informed consent for participation.
 
Dreama,

Why do you insist on posting these threads that end up going nowhere? You're really not going to convince anybody to re-think their position. If someone is against animal testing, they will be. If someone is supportive of animal testing, they will be. So, the circular argument ensues and goes on for pages until a mod comes along and locks the thread and you're argument has yet again failed to sway anyone.

Why can't you accept that each person has their own views and you're not going to change them?
 
Its not my questions that fail to make sense, but your reasoning.

There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. Do I need to draw diagrames to help you understand.

Humans and animals respond differantly in testing so what works with animals does NOT neccessary work with humans.
Far from advancing science. Animal testing has actually held research back.
Doctors 120 years ago have seen this fact yet animal testing still goes on.

Exactly what is so hard to understand about that?
 
I think human volunteers in trials are paid. Although unfortunately they are sometimes misled to believe the tests are safer then they are because they were tested on animals first.

Unfortunately things that have worked ok in animals do not work at all in human trials.

This is totally and completely innaccurate. Fully informed consent is required for participation in any clinical trial. Failure to obtain fully informed consent leaves the researcher open to legal prosecution, ethics violations, and loss of license.
 
There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. Do I need to draw diagrames to help you understand.

Humans and animals respond differantly in testing so what works with animals does NOT neccessary work with humans.
Far from advancing science. Animal testing has actually held research back.
Doctors 120 years ago have seen this fact yet animal testing still goes on.

Exactly what is so hard to understand about that?

There is plenty wrong with your reasoning. So yeah, draw me a diagram. That I have got to see.

I would prefer that we not send medicine back 120 years. Many advances have been made that have resulted in lives saved and quality of life improved for millions. And we have animal testing to thank for those saved human lives and improved quality of life.
 
Dreama,

Why do you insist on posting these threads?

From Jillo: I'm still waiting for a solution to medical experimentation on animals from you. I'm anxious to know whether you think we should experiment on humans instead, or just let people die from curable illnesses?

So I'm just providing links that prove my point. Have you actually had a look at any of the links?
 
So I'm just providing links that prove my point. Have you actually had a look at any of the links?

I have. One is a charitable website. One provides a position paper. I even read some of the so called "scientific" articles that were listed on the charitable website. Would not stand up to the scrutiny of a professional, I can guarantee you.

You have proven nothing. You have to provide fact, statistics, data, hard science to prove a point such as the one you are attempting to make. Let's see some hard medical evidence. So far all you have provided is a bunch of bleeding heart websites attempting to gain paid membership so they can stay afloat. That is proof only of the fact that the gullible still exist.
 
There is plenty wrong with your reasoning. So yeah, draw me a diagram. That I have got to see.

I would prefer that we not send medicine back 120 years. Many advances have been made that have resulted in lives saved and quality of life improved for millions. And we have animal testing to thank for those saved human lives and improved quality of life.

No, I'm afraid that's where you are mistaken. Medical reasearch has advanced DESPITE animal testing. NOT because of.

Why is your point of view more valid then mine. It is just mindlessly repeating the claims made by vivisectionists.

Yes, we have advanced in the last 120 years but this isn't down to animal testing. Humans have been tested since then and other methods have been created too so I'm afraid your logic is completely false.
 
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