Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

vallee said:
This might be a good college textbook to read.

Oxford University Press: Advances in the Spoken-Language Development of Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing Children: Patricia Elizabeth Spencer

Advances in the Spoken Language Development of Deaf and Hard of Hearing Children

It seems to discuss cochlear implants as a benefit for spoken language development and well as hearing aids.
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I have nothing against teaching deaf children spoken language but what I am against is using only spoken language with them in the educational setting due to the risk of the children missing gaps due to not being able to "hear" everything that is being said. That is where sign language comes in.
 
flip said:
I scratch my head on the use of "sign language therapy" in Rick48's post, I belived I had heard everything but this was something new. Imagine hearing kids getting english therapy ;)
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:ty: Flip.

I don't mean anything against Rick, but I didn't understand this also and wondered as a kid I missed something. :laugh2: I had ST every day at school for several years and then 3 times a week and during vacation from school :squint: but never "sign language therapy".
 
shel90 said:
I have nothing against teaching deaf children spoken language but what I am against is using only spoken language with them in the educational setting due to the risk of the children missing gaps due to not being able to "hear" everything that is being said. That is where sign language comes in.
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I understand the importances of ASL, it is not a cure-all either. There should be a number of strategies used to improve spoken language and comprehension of written language. And if you go to the homepage of the author, he is very much pro-ASL.
 
shel90 said:
I have nothing against teaching deaf children spoken language but what I am against is using only spoken language with them in the educational setting due to the risk of the children missing gaps due to not being able to "hear" everything that is being said. That is where sign language comes in.
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Right, what I don't understand is that why some hearing parents so opposed to sign language is it because they do not want to learn themselves is that's the excuse? There has been significant research that signs does help those who are delaying in language and increased spoken vocabularies and improved their language developments.
 
Cloggy said:
Exposing to language. Dutch at home, and Norwegian outside the home.
In the kindergarten she has a speech-therapist who comes 3 x a week for an hour and works with her...

When she started to hear, she was about 2-1/4 years old. Staring in the kindergarten (summer 2006) made quite an impact. With a Reynell-test in 2006-12 she was at a 2-years-old level, last test (2007-9, 9 months later) she was at a 3.6 years-old level. That's 1.4 years behind.
She's catching up.
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That's excellent that she's catching up but don't you think that signs should still be included to help her improve her delaying areas? I think it's worth the try, Cloggy. :)
 
Cheri said:
Right, what I don't understand is that why some hearing parents so opposed to sign language is it because they do not want to learn themselves is that's the excuse? There has been significant research that signs does help those who are delaying in language and increased spoken vocabularies and improved their language developments.
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Even if they dont want to learn sign themselves, put the children in programs that promotes the use of both. By putting the child in an oral-only environment 24/7 is stressful for the child especially in the educational setting. I noticed that the use of spoken language only approach is easier to deal with in the home. Dealing with it in the educational setting was extremely stressful and that is where I have a problem with oral-only deaf ed programs.
 
Cloggy said:
Exposing to language. Dutch at home, and Norwegian outside the home. In the kindergarten she has a speech-therapist who comes 3 x a week for an hour and works with her...

When she started to hear, she was about 2-1/4 years old. Staring in the kindergarten (summer 2006) made quite an impact. With a Reynell-test in 2006-12 she was at a 2-years-old level, last test (2007-9, 9 months later) she was at a 3.6 years-old level. That's 1.4 years behind.
She's catching up.
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I'm very impressed.
 
vallee said:
I understand the importances of ASL, it is not a cure-all either. There should be a number of strategies used to improve spoken language and comprehension of written language. And if you go to the homepage of the author, he is very much pro-ASL.
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Yea, I know that. :)
 
I am not sure if I have mentioned this before but when we started this road we did not have medical insurance. My son was the first child in our county to get his implant paid for by the state. Just this past week we drove by Sacramento our state cap, I was remembering how when my son was 3 we spent 3 weeks there. I couldn't find the funding for his implant and the doctors were having a hard time getting it approve so I took the approval form and went into the government offices and told them that I was not leaving until I had an approval in my hand. We also visited all of our state elected officals to tell them about our story.
I can now say that parents who do not have medical insurance do not have to go through this because it is now a standard operation. My son's aud says it is because of my son.
You are right DEAFDYKE, now we have great medical insurance and our income is OK but it wasn't for the first 8 years of my children's lives.


deafdyke said:
Thank you jillo! Rick, that is very easy to explain. Yes, some oral-only kids do very well with just normal parental involvement, plus a foundation of early intervention. I did myself. I didn't need oral deaf schooling or a speech therapist specificly for dhh kids. I think what you and jackie don't understand is that for you, all the pieces that go together to produce a kid with good oral skills were there from the get go. You were lucky that way. A lot of other people don''t/didn't have all the pieces, such as good health insurance, abilty to relocate (to good oral programs), abilty to supplement therapies, good response to amplification and so on. Not all dhh kids respond well to just normal parental involvement. There are parents who go overboard, and who therapyizie their kids, by requiring only speech, attendance at oral schools, constant "let's do the "games" in the John Tracy clinic correspondance course, and let's also do audio-verbal therapy instead of just hanging out and being a kid (which can be enriching in of itself)
The difference between a bilingal route (which is what I'm proposing for almost all dhh kids) and oral only, is exactly like the difference in performance that you would get between someone who can speak English, but who's strengh is French, attending a bilingal school, vs. limiting them to a monolingal (English only) approach. I remmy when i went to summer camp as a teen, there were girls there from Quebec who could speak English pretty well. But it took a LOT of effort and energy. That's pretty much the same with us oral kids. It often takes a lot of energy for us to speak English b/c it concentrates so much on a weakness. Whereas with ASL, we are people, who's primary strengh is visual input. We can pick up ASL visually, and EASILY, without having to
Think of the language you learned in high school. You can speak it, yes? You might even be able to speak it very fluently. But in the end you're always more comfortable with English, b/c it's your strengh.
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jillio said:
I've seen examples of your son's writing skills.
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My son did not realize his writing samples were going to be graded. Are you trying to tell me that my son cannot read at a 10th grade level because of a couple of posting he wrote. You have never read his formal essays he writes for school, never tested his reading comp, or have spoken to him but you can judge him from a couple of writing samples. This is why we have told him he cannot go on this site because of people like yourself will be judging him, thank you you have just prove my point, I have shown him your comment and he now understands how the Deaf culture feels about oral deaf kids.
 
Shel, I would love for you to meet my son. I think you need to be exposed to children like mine. They have amazing self-confidence. They believe in themselves because we believe in them.

shel90 said:
That is so evident with my students who have been exposed to both approaches since their diagnosis as opposed to those who were raised orally. From my experience the ones that came to our school later are lacking in self-confidence in social situations. I have yet seen one oral student become a leader or stand up for themselves to the other students who grew up with both approaches. I am still like that in many ways when it comes to my self-confidence in social groups.
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jillio said:
Actually, exposing a deaf child to sign is not directive at all, but allows them to gain language through incidental exposure the same way that a hearing child gains language through incidental exposure. Formal lessons for the child are not required, as the child does not need to be taught to use their eyes. They naturally do so as their strongest sense. A deaf child in an oral environment, however, must be taught to listen, as well as to speak, maing that situation much more directive and lacking in spontaneous and nondirected acquisaition of language.
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You have never been in our home so you wouldn't know how we teach our children. My children gain language through incidental exposure just like any other hearing child because they hear a lot with their cochlear implants. Once in the summer when my son was 8 years old, my son came to me and said mom you have sad. What I am not sad, no you have sad, what are you talking about. Yes, mom you have soap additive disorder. I was watching a soap opera at the moment. Tell me how did I directly teach my son to say this to me. He picked up completely on his own.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
My son did not realize his writing samples were going to be graded. Are you trying to tell me that my son cannot read at a 10th grade level because of a couple of posting he wrote. You have never read his formal essays he writes for school, never tested his reading comp, or have spoken to him but you can judge him from a couple of writing samples. This is why we have told him he cannot go on this site because of people like yourself will be judging him, thank you you have just prove my point, I have shown him your comment and he now understands how the Deaf culture feels about oral deaf kids.
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U are just as wrong when it comes to judging..u are holding a whole community of people responsible for a few people's comments. By teaching your son that just makes u as wrong too. Same thing with Rick48 when he said that he has no interest in exposing to his daughter to the Deaf community cuz of some people's comments about his daughter 20 years ago. Maybe there are some people in the Deaf community that dont judge but yet u and Rick48 or many others dont give them a chance cuz of what other people have said to offend u. That makes the whole Deaf community bad or what? If I took a few hearing people's comments about deaf people being dumb and hold the whole hearing population responsible by refusing to interact with any of them, that would make me fit the stereotype of being deaf and dumb because it would be a dumb thing to do.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
Shel, I would love for you to meet my son. I think you need to be exposed to children like mine. They have amazing self-confidence. They believe in themselves because we believe in them.
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What makes u think that I havent been exposed to children like yours? Just because a few oral deaf children are successful doesnt make it ok that others fail. What makes that right?
 
jackiesolorzano said:
My son did not realize his writing samples were going to be graded. Are you trying to tell me that my son cannot read at a 10th grade level because of a couple of posting he wrote. You have never read his formal essays he writes for school, never tested his reading comp, or have spoken to him but you can judge him from a couple of writing samples. This is why we have told him he cannot go on this site because of people like yourself will be judging him, thank you you have just prove my point, I have shown him your comment and he now understands how the Deaf culture feels about oral deaf kids.
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Don't allow a few to pass judgement. I am deaf with bilateral CI. I am also frustrated about the small amount of people who seem so anti-CI or anti-oral, don't allow others to push your son away from the Deaf culture. I hope you son will help others to see that you can be an oral deaf person.
 
shel90 said:
What makes u think that I havent been exposed to children like yours? Just because a few oral deaf children are successful doesnt make it ok that others fail. What makes that right?
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Does it mean that they can't be successful.

The children that are not successful, your a teacher help them be successful!!!!!
 
vallee said:
Does it mean that they can't be successful.

The children that are not successful, your a teacher help them be successful!!!!!
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Try to fill in my shoes and teach kids who have no language at the ages of 6,7, 8 years old and these are kids who were born with normal congitive processes. It is a hard job and heartbreaking at times and it is something that is preventable, isnt it?
 
shel90 said:
U are just as wrong when it comes to judging..u are holding a whole community of people responsible for a few people's comments. By teaching your son that just makes u as wrong too. Same thing with Rick48 when he said that he has no interest in exposing to his daughter to the Deaf community cuz of some people's comments about his daughter 20 years ago. Maybe there are some people in the Deaf community that dont judge but yet u and Rick48 or many others dont give them a chance cuz of what other people have said to offend u. That makes the whole Deaf community bad or what? If I took a few hearing people's comments about deaf people being dumb and hold the whole hearing population responsible by refusing to interact with any of them, that would make me fit the stereotype of being deaf and dumb because it would be a dumb thing to do.
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So should they just take the negative comments? Should their children take the abuse and name calling? Should they place them in educational evironments that provides negative teachers or negative comments about their children's CIs? Should they allow their children to be put throught that? They are protecting their children from harm - emotional harm. I agree with them.

Rick, Cloggy, and Jackie - I hope your children exposure the world the positives and negatives of being oral deaf. I for one, enjoy hearing about their progress as well as anything that is not working.
 
shel90 said:
Try to fill in my shoes and teach kids who have no language at the ages of 6,7, 8 years old and these are kids who were born with normal congitive processes. It is a hard job and heartbreaking at times and it is something that is preventable, isnt it?
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Shel, I do teach. I might not teach deaf education, but I do teach children who are language impaired. It is heart breaking. ASL is not the cure-all. Just like aspirin is not the only cure for a headache.

I have also taught a few children that have parents who are deaf. The language delay is also there for the hearing children as well. I had one who was only taught ASL at home, and she was at least 2 years delay in language. What did I do - I got her in speech class and worked with the parents to help the child. I tutored the child after school. Is that preventable too?
 
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