A woman's right?

[Byrdie714]

You know what...I am going to remain pro-choice.

It's pointless to try to share POV with those that differ from you as they want to conitnually to discount one's POV.

Sad thing is that it sounds like you want to legislate against abortion and yet you want have the right to marry whoever you want. You are going down on a slippery slope with this argument because if you take away abortion--then they will take away gay marriage....

Can't have your cake and icing sweetie.

 

[KarissaMann05]

One thing that I hate is the "don't have one" agrument...

If you don't like a lie, don't have a lie.
If you don't like a steal, don't have a steal.
If you don't like a kill, don't have a kill.
If you don't like a cat, don't have a cat.
If you don't like a drug, don't have a drug.
If you don't like an onion, don't have an onion.
If you don't like an abortion, don't have an abortion.
Go and so on.

To me, it's easy to change her mind to have a something, or her attitude will more likely, "shut up! I know what I do, I don't care what happen to anyone! I can do whatever I want." =/

Okay, if a fetus is not a baby until (2nd term or its born) because someone hates kids, which is not surprise me at all. Sure, sometimes, someone, who is a childfree, don't consider a toddler or a child as a person because they believe the little kids or toddlers don't have any expereince, are a moron, and are not have an adult thought. Because they consider them as a non person or non human. I'd seen it before... What a typical child hater. :roll:

Uh-huh, sure, it would be nice if there are no children. Whatever. :roll:

 

[lsfoster]

You know what...I am going to remain pro-choice.

It's pointless to try to share POV with those that differ from you as they want to conitnually to discount one's POV.

Sad thing is that it sounds like you want to legislate against abortion and yet you want have the right to marry whoever you want. You are going down on a slippery slope with this argument because if you take away abortion--then they will take away gay marriage....

Can't have your cake and icing sweetie.

I never said you had to change your mind, Byrdie, I was just trying to explain my position. I'm not trying to discount your POV, I just don't think that you have presented very logical arguments or countered many of the points I have made.

And if you read any of my posts, you should notice that I've stated many, many, many times that I don't think banning abortions is a good solution at all. Partial-birth abortions? Yes, I would like to see legislation against them. Many states already have this, and (again, if you look at any of the links I've provided) these make up a very, very small minority of abortions.

And I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too. I believe in equal rights, consistency, and fair treatment by the law. If you can explain to me how those beliefs would in any way be against gay marriage, I'd love to hear it. It's not a slippery slope at all. I think I've explained my views well, and with a lot of support and documentation. So far, all you've managed to tell me is that you think babies are parasites and that women should have a choice because right now the law says so. So you can remain pro-choice, and I'll remain the way I am right now.

 

[lsfoster]

One thing that I hate is the "don't have one" agrument...

If you don't like a lie, don't have a lie.
If you don't like a steal, don't have a steal.
If you don't like a kill, don't have a kill.
If you don't like a cat, don't have a cat.
If you don't like a drug, don't have a drug.
If you don't like an onion, don't have an onion.
If you don't like an abortion, don't have an abortion.
Go and so on.

I agree, Karissa, I think that it's a weak argument. Using the same logic, there's no reason to have laws of any kind.

 

[Sunshinelady]

There are so many reasons that a woman should have an abortion.

A 13 years old girl is a pregnancy, and she is not allowed to have an abortion. Suppose if her child has a mental health problem. Later, that girl would have another baby with the same health problem for many generations.

If you do not believe in abortion, then you don't abort your baby. That's it.

I believe in spirits. If a baby were aborted, then the baby's soul is never destroyed. The soul would go into another woman's womb (or, the next life).

I agree with you.. and another reason one woman has rape from strange man. Should she keep the baby? NO WAY!!!!
if couple don't afford for a family. I would understand, she decided for her abortion.

one forget tell you guys, i don't want pull options. that is private!!!!

 

[Byrdie714]

I never said you had to change your mind, Byrdie, I was just trying to explain my position. I'm not trying to discount your POV, I just don't think that you have presented very logical arguments or countered many of the points I have made.

And if you read any of my posts, you should notice that I've stated many, many, many times that I don't think banning abortions is a good solution at all. Partial-birth abortions? Yes, I would like to see legislation against them. Many states already have this, and (again, if you look at any of the links I've provided) these make up a very, very small minority of abortions.

And I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too. I believe in equal rights, consistency, and fair treatment by the law. If you can explain to me how those beliefs would in any way be against gay marriage, I'd love to hear it. It's not a slippery slope at all. I think I've explained my views well, and with a lot of support and documentation. So far, all you've managed to tell me is that you think babies are parasites and that women should have a choice because right now the law says so. So you can remain pro-choice, and I'll remain the way I am right now.

For me--partial birth abortions falls under the category of abortion and I support partial birth abortions. Last thing we need to do is start splitting hairs on this issue.

And again---it's not a "baby" until it detaches itself from the host. (Sorry--my POV)

It's either--"damn you do, damned you don't".

But I will admit--you do have good arguments.

 

[Jolie77]

Well, Here's the thing -- We've had a lot of debates on various threads here in AllDeaf regarding to the abortion issues.

We can't change one's opinion about this issues. They only can change it for themselves if they were to be informative about it.

The discussion spirals into Emotion vs Logical validation. While it may be good but then, POVs are meant to be shared.

Abortion will always remain to be one of the hottest topic for years to come.

I've said my piece in another thread about this. So, with that, Perhaps it is time to agree to disagree.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Well, Here's the thing -- We've had a lot of debates on various threads here in AllDeaf regarding to the abortion issues.

We can't change one's opinion about this issues. They only can change it for themselves if they were to be informative about it.

The discussion spirals into Emotion vs Logical validation. While it may be good but then, POVs are meant to be shared.

Abortion will always remain to be one of the hottest topic for years to come.

I've said my piece in another thread about this. So, with that, Perhaps it is time to agree to disagree.

I agree with you. I don't see why we have to have this debate to ad nauseum here on AD. There's always going to be opposing viewpoints. Some people see it solely as a pro-choice medical decision between the woman and her doctor; while others see it as pro life issue and murder.

 

[Maria]

I never said you had to change your mind, Byrdie, I was just trying to explain my position. I'm not trying to discount your POV, I just don't think that you have presented very logical arguments or countered many of the points I have made.

And if you read any of my posts, you should notice that I've stated many, many, many times that I don't think banning abortions is a good solution at all. Partial-birth abortions? Yes, I would like to see legislation against them. Many states already have this, and (again, if you look at any of the links I've provided) these make up a very, very small minority of abortions.

I agree!

And I'm not trying to have my cake and eat it too. I believe in equal rights, consistency, and fair treatment by the law. If you can explain to me how those beliefs would in any way be against gay marriage, I'd love to hear it. It's not a slippery slope at all. I think I've explained my views well, and with a lot of support and documentation. So far, all you've managed to tell me is that you think babies are parasites and that women should have a choice because right now the law says so. So you can remain pro-choice, and I'll remain the way I am right now.

I don't believe that the babies are parasites. Babies are not bugs or viruses.

 

[Jolie77]

I agree with you. I don't see why we have to have this debate to ad nauseum here on AD. There's always going to be opposing viewpoints. Some people see it solely as a pro-choice medical decision between the woman and her doctor; while others see it as pro life issue and murder.

Yeah, There will always be opposing viewpoints.

While I can understand that both parties have strong opinions that can validate their arguments but really, even though, if it were to be said one way or another, It should be at least debated in a civilized manner rather than saying "I'm right, You're wrong". There is no rights or wrongs in this. It just means that there will always be quid pro quo regarding to this.

 

[Byrdie714]

Plus the other thing is: how many abortions threads on AD have been locked?

Numerous!

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Yeah, There will always be opposing viewpoints.

While I can understand that both parties have strong opinions that can validate their arguments but really, even though, if it were to be said one way or another, It should be at least debated in a civilized manner rather than saying "I'm right, You're wrong". There is no rights or wrongs in this. It just means that there will always be quid pro quo regarding to this.

Heh. True. Unfortunately, people are people and alot of us will support/fight for our opinions to the death!

I'm one of them.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Plus the other thing is: how many abortions threads on AD have been locked?

Numerous!

Definitely. Too many to count, really.

 

[Byrdie714]

Heh. True. Unfortunately, people are people and alot of us will support/fight for our opinions to the death!

I'm one of them.

I'm guilty as charged!

 

[lsfoster]

Well I'm glad this hasn't been locked. I think it's been a pretty calm argument, actually.

(And Byrdie, I promise I'm not trying to split hairs, and I obviously can't make you, but I really think you should just Google images for "partial birth abortion", and see if it changes your mind at all. I did a huge project on abortion when I was in high school, and to me, there is nothing that I can say to justify those images. Just a thought.)

 

[Byrdie714]

Well I'm glad this hasn't been locked. I think it's been a pretty calm argument, actually.

(And Byrdie, I promise I'm not trying to split hairs, and I obviously can't make you, but I really think you should just Google images for "partial birth abortion", and see if it changes your mind at all. I did a huge project on abortion when I was in high school, and to me, there is nothing that I can say to justify those images. Just a thought.)

I have and it still hasn't convinced me otherwise. Besides--I've seen worse.

 

[jillio]

And most people who commit murder believe they have valid reasons for that also. Unless there is a serious health risk to the mother, I just don't think there's a valid reason for having a partial birth abortion.

Abortions after the first trimester can only be performed in the case of threat to the health of the woman or the fetus. Please do not confuse elective first trimester abortion with later term, medically necessary abortion. That completely clouds the issue.

Likewise, are you aware that in the case where a partial birth abortion would be indicated at a later term in order to protect the life of the woman, partial birth is actually a safer procedure than the one currently allowed by law?

 

[jillio]

Few REPORTED rapes result in pregnancy, due to the widespread availability of emergency contraception (the 'morning after' pill)

A woman who does not report the rape is, indeed, far less likely to either get an RX for the pills or (in an area where it's legal) pick it up from a pharmacy. Likewise, for the purposes of abortion statistics, she may not identify herself as a rape victim.

Very, very true.

 

[jillio]

We do look at things differently. If you want to say that babies are parasites, then that's your view. You can't say, however, that every human being on the planet isn't a parasite, based on the definition you're using. The difference is that we are bigger parasites, and that we are parasites with certain rights recognized. I just don't think that you can convince me that a baby who happens to be separated from the world by a bit of tissue is any less a baby than if you moved him a few inches out of his mother's womb (whether by natural birth or c-section). When a baby can reach out and grab your finger, a totally natural and living response, I just don't see how you can say it isn't alive.

Your information regarding conception is a bit off. A woman can concieve 3 days prior to ovulation and up to 3 days post ovualtion, making it a 6 day span. And the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of women who are raped are definately of child bearing age.

 

[jillio]

Who's using emotional arguments now?

What has being a lesbian got to do with anything.

We're not the only ones either. Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians

I'm bisexual and as strongly pro life as you can get. And I support Pro life republicans/conservatives too. Shocking isn't it.

The truth of the matter is I'm all for a person's right to do whatthey want with their own body. Such as removing body parts, sleeping with whoever whenever etc... But NOBODY has ANY right to dispose of SOMEBODY ELSES BODY

And it's common for those who harm others to dehumanize them first. It doesn't change anything. A fetus is a pre baby. A parasite is NOTHING like a baby.

The bolded statement is it in a nutshell, and in fact, supports the pro-choice side. A fetus carries the potential for becoming a baby. However, a fetus is not a baby. Not legally, and not medically. Therefore, you are free to think of whatever may be inside your body in any way you choose. However, you cannot, under any moral, legal, or medical argument, force another to believe the same.