A woman's right?

[dreama]

the scientific facts are that a fetus is not viable at the points determined to permit elective abortion. By your definition, birth control would also be murder, as it prevents conception, thus destroying the potential for life to be created.

No. That's not true. The fetus is NOT just something with a potency of life. She or he IS already alive. She's got feelings and she will suffer when she is being killed by being aborted. Same as any baby would. Their ARE scientific facts to prove that unborn fetuses do feel pain. I don't really know to what extent this would apply to an embryo but for me, once the baby develops a form and a soul it's human so should have the right of life. There is nothing potential about it.

I am not against contraception.

If a woman is so easily led that she is incapable of making up her own mind regarding something as important as whether or not to become a parent, then I suggest that she has some issues that would most likely negatively impact her ability to be a good parent.

It is part of human nature to allow people to presurize us into situations that we don't really want to be in. This is especially true when you are in love with someone. So if the bloke says it's either me or the baby and the woman is in love wit him she might kill her baby simply to please him, then spend the rest of her life regretting it.

 

[sara1981]

i have rights for woman because that my body is choice i wanted have baby or not.

but i trust my family and my boyfriend because im not pregnant yet so my mom dont force me to abortion but i wanted have my own baby when i get married one days and i can get pregnant in my OWN rightfully! because my parents wanted to become grandparents in future to caring of our my children.Because im using Birth Control pills everyday to protect pregnant and peroid also.

mostly married woman wanted have their choice getting pregnant or not and still waiting for family in years.

 

[jillio]

No. That's not true. The fetus is NOT just something with a potency of life. She or he IS already alive. She's got feelings and she will suffer when she is being killed by being aborted. Same as any baby would. Their ARE scientific facts to prove that unborn fetuses do feel pain. I don't really know to what extent this would apply to an embryo but for me, once the baby develops a form and a soul it's human so should have the right of life. There is nothing potential about it.

I am not against contraception.



It is part of human nature to allow people to presurize us into situations that we don't really want to be in. This is especially true when you are in love with someone. So if the bloke says it's either me or the baby and the woman is in love wit him she might kill her baby simply to please him, then spend the rest of her life regretting it.

The point at which a fetus can experience pain has already been determined. It is after the 1st trimester. Prior to that, the nuerological development necessary has not occurred. It has been proven scientifically. Has absolutely nothing to do with beleif or emotion, but is simply a scientific fact.

If a woman chooses a man over her child, then I would suggest that she would continue to do so after the child is born. She needs to get her priorities straight. A woman who is ready to be a mother puts the child first, not the man. If she can't do that, then I suggest that she would not prove to be ready for parenthood.

 

[dreama]

The point at which a fetus can experience pain has already been determined. It is after the 1st trimester. Prior to that, the nuerological development necessary has not occurred. It has been proven scientifically. Has absolutely nothing to do with beleif or emotion, but is simply a scientific fact.

The fact that a fetus of at any stage can feel pain proves that it she is already a person. Not just having the potential to be one. She is actually one. Besides, they may have feeling before it can be 'scienticically proven'. It's a pity nobody can remember what it felt like in the womb. If they did they might think twice about murdering unborn babies.

If a woman chooses a man over her child, then I would suggest that she would continue to do so after the child is born. She needs to get her priorities straight. A woman who is ready to be a mother puts the child first, not the man. If she can't do that, then I suggest that she would not prove to be ready for parenthood.

While it's certainly true that some women are not ready, it doesn't mean that it is ok to kill the baby in any state of development.

I would also like to know why a woman has this 'right' to murder the baby (which is not part of her body) yet many woman who ask to be steralized before having children are refused. Why wait for a baby to be produced before killing it. If a woman doesn't want children or is incapable of caring for them properly why wait till they become pregnant before acting. Wouldn't it be better to have steralization on demand for all women who seek it, and for it to be compulsory for child abusers, criminals and those on hard drugs?

 

[jillio]

The fact that a fetus of at any stage can feel pain proves that it she is already a person. Not just having the potential to be one. She is actually one. Besides, they may have feeling before it can be 'scienticically proven'. It's a pity nobody can remember what it felt like in the womb. If they did they might think twice about murdering unborn babies.
Simply having neurological connections that allow one to feel the stimulus of pain is not an indication of viability. The ability to perceive stimuli has nothing to do with personhood. If it did, then those who suffer from a rare neurological disorder that does not permit them to perceive painful stimuli would not be people, now would they? "May have" is not the issue. What can be proven is the issue. There is a reason no one can remember what it is to be in the womb. And those reasons are directly linked to neurological and cognitive development. Hence, the reason it is called a "fetal state".


While it's certainly true that some women are not ready, it doesn't mean that it is ok to kill the baby in any state of development.
Would you prefer that those chidlren be born and suffer an exisitence full of abuse and neglect? This would occur, most definately after they are able to feel it and remember it.

I would also like to know why a woman has this 'right' to murder the baby (which is not part of her body) yet many woman who ask to be steralized before having children are refused. Why wait for a baby to be produced before killing it. If a woman doesn't want children or is incapable of caring for them properly why wait till they become pregnant before acting. Wouldn't it be better to have steralization on demand for all women who seek it, and for it to be compulsory for child abusers, criminals and those on hard drugs?

A woman has the right because it is provided for her legally.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Everyone should not to tell women/girls what they do. It's their own business..

Anyway--

As for woman's right in my opinion...

Hmm... Personally...
I don't like how many people considered a fetus as no life forum or
non-personhood no matter what if a fetus is 4mos old, 2mos old, 6mos
old, or others than the age until at birth.

Well, I was told by very several stupid pro-choicers' comments:
* "Well, your mom should abort you. You don't dervses it."
* "Ooh, I'm so sorry. I think it'll be easy if she (my mom) aborts her
baby and she'll be fine without her firstborn baby."
* "Oh, your mom should abort your brother, so you don't have a bratty
brother."
* etc etc

It's reminds me of "you are so awful, wrecked, bad child, etc... I should have abort you!" comments. Well, my opinion-- Abortion is very dangerous to the future descendants, not because of abortion tools, but abortion can change the timeline every day. It also is sound like, "you are not suppose to be here; you are suppose to be never existed; you don't derevses to be here on this planet; etc etc". In fact, 1.3 millions children aborted EVERY YEAR; Zillions and zillions people of aborted children's future descendants are DISAPPEARED every year; you will never meet a person because of abortion CAN take a person's life, and you never knew how many abortion survivors outside there.

I do not believe that I'm a firstborn child but I do lost my older
sibling to abotion. I do not believe that I have no fifth child but I
also lost my younger sibling to abortion. I can't pretend that I don't
have four siblings. I believed I lost my two siblings but I still have
my two precious silbings. I won't treat my aborted silbings as if they
are just phoney and worthless because they just are unwanted...

... ...What is scares me the most quote is: "Your life or death
depends on the fact that someone wants or doesn't want you... Your mom wants you dead or not. You have no intrinsic (sp) right to be. "

Questions--
What's about a fetus is just born and alive during the abortion? Is it her choice to kill an alive and born fetus or not? "My Body, My Choice" is logical choice?? This common comment is fucking scary.

But... Again, it's all up to any woman. Her body and her choice... There is nothing we can do.

Sucks. =/

 

[dreama]

A woman has the right because it is provided for her legally.

Well, there are a lot of things that are permitted legally that are totally imoral. You haven't bothered to answer my question.

I wanted to know why a woman can't have a hysterectomy to stop her having any babies but if she gets pregnant it's permitted to kill them?

 

[dreama]

I do not believe that I'm a firstborn child but I do lost my older
sibling to abotion.

Sorry to hear that. I had an older brother who died from miscarrage. I sometimes wonder what he would have been like if he'd not been born dead.

Questions--
What's about a fetus is just born and alive during the abortion? Is it her choice to kill an alive and born fetus or not? "My Body, My Choice" is logical choice?? This common comment is fucking scary.

Yes, it is.

There is a woman from another site who said that if her boyfriend, who is blind due to RP, made her pregnant she has already decided to abort the baby because she seems to think blindness is something terrible that has to be got rid of. The poor guy must have a very low self esteem as well as being blind. If I was him I wouldn't be able to end that relationship fast enough.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Sorry to hear that. I had an older brother who died from miscarrage. I sometimes wonder what he would have been like if he'd not been born dead.

Me too. I was wondered my life look like if my older sibling is not aborted. But, if he/she is not aborted, then my young sister will may not be here, possibly my younger brother too. Maybe, I may be not here.. Who knows?

I'm sorry that you lost your silbing. I understood completely.

Yes, it is.

There is a woman from another site who said that if her boyfriend, who is blind due to RP, made her pregnant she has already decided to abort the baby because she seems to think blindness is something terrible that has to be got rid of. The poor guy must have a very low self esteem as well as being blind. If I was him I wouldn't be able to end that relationship fast enough.

Aw, I feel so bad for him.

Oh, seriously, people with disabilities would SO MUCH rather to be dead! Oh wait... ( If you know what I am saying. :rolls the eyes: )

 

[Doug5]

dont know its true or not. supposedly more pregnancies result in miscarriages than there are abortion.

Some argue that this makes abortions natural

 

[dreama]

dont know its true or not. supposedly more pregnancies result in miscarriages than there are abortion.

Some argue that this makes abortions natural

Well if you look at it that way, more people die of road accidents or diseases such as heart condition or cancer. This would not make murdering people acceptable or natural.

I could just imagine how it would go down in court if the murderer said "Me killing that pensioner was 'natural' because she was stastisticly more likely to die anyway sooner or later" While I'm sure this may well be the case I don't think the judge would let him off somehow.

 

[jillio]

Well, there are a lot of things that are permitted legally that are totally imoral. You haven't bothered to answer my question.

I wanted to know why a woman can't have a hysterectomy to stop her having any babies but if she gets pregnant it's permitted to kill them?

Hysterectomy affects things other than just a woman's ability to conceive. The most common procedure for complete sterilization is not hysterectomy, but tubal ligation. A woman cna't choose to have a hysterectomy to prevent preganancy any more than she can choose to have a cholicistectomy to prevent future gall baldder disease. It is malpractice to remove an organ as a preventive measure. Organ removal is a corrective measure, not a preventive one. Just as abortion is a corrective measure, not a preventive one.

 

[dreama]

Hysterectomy affects things other than just a woman's ability to conceive. The most common procedure for complete sterilization is not hysterectomy, but tubal ligation.

I meant steralization. I don't really care which method is used.

A woman cna't choose to have a hysterectomy to prevent preganancy any more than she can choose to have a cholicistectomy to prevent future gall baldder disease.

I don't see why that should be. If someone was really worried about getting gal bladder disease, if it was inheditory, then that should be permitted.

It is malpractice to remove an organ as a preventive measure.

So you are against people donating a kidney which involves removing an organ?

Organ removal is a corrective measure, not a preventive one. Just as abortion is a corrective measure, not a preventive one.

How depressing. Murdering a living feeling baby before they've even left the womb is now simply considered a 'corrective measure'. I think Hitler used those terms too when he decided to legalize the murder of disabled children.

You don't really believe in a woman's right to do what she likes with her body if she can't even remove any organs that she feels should go. She is only permitted to commit legalized murder.

 

[dreama]

Aw, I feel so bad for him.

Me too. Particularly since blindness isn't such a great disability. I'm against all abortion but to me selective abortion is worse.

 

[laughing-Carrot]

Dreama...some other factors to take into perspective.

Abortion will never, and I repeat, never become illegal. Why? because if you take away that right, then you are virtually slapping women's rights on face. I admire your moral standpoint and view on the value of life, but matter of the fact is- women's rights have only just been fully established in the past 50 years. To make abortion illegal would mean swarms of hardcore feminists running around complaining their rights have been undermined.

Also, what about lifestyle factors...i.e what if it was teenage girl still in her sophomore years? A crack-whore? A woman who despised kids? (ok, maybe I exaggerated there lol, but you get my point). Sometimes, an abortion is in the best interests of both parties...

 

[dreama]

I decided to dig this up as I found an interesting story to add to it. I'm only quoting part. If you want to read the whole thing. I've provided a link at the end.

I phoned my mother to come over and she took me to the hospital. Dr. C. came in, and I remember my mother standing at the end of the bed and saying, "Kick her in the stomach a few times to make sure it's really dead!"

Dr. C. said, "The baby is already dead."

I was so young and inexperienced I never thought to ask, "How on earth would you know that the baby is dead when you just got here, and haven't even examined me yet?"

Anyway, he said that I had to get a D&C. So, later on, I was wheeled up to the operating room for the "procedure".

I truly believed that the baby was dead! The really strange part is that, two weeks before this happened, I had a dream. In the dream I was in an operating room, and I was having the baby, except it was too early for the baby, and as I was being wheeled in I was telling the nurses this.

When I was being wheeled into the operating room, to have the so called D&C, the operating room was set out exactly as it was in my dream. Also the nurse was the same even though I had never seen her before in my life!

So the "procedure" was done and, the next morning, Dr. C. came in to see me. (I was still in the hospital.)

I asked him what sex the baby was, and he abruptly told me that it was too early to tell. I know now that at that gestation that baby was fully formed and, perhaps, viable. As a matter of fact, my daughter in law gave birth to a baby at 22 weeks gestation, and the baby is now a healthy happy three-year-old!

I was discharged from the hospital feeling such an emptiness. But, life went on.

I knew in my heart that it was nature's way. I had not had an abortion… or so I thought!

Eight years ago, my mother and I were at Bingo. I don't know what possessed her to tell me what she told me. She said, "Jeannie… do you remember when you had your miscarriage?"

I said, "Yes"

She said, "Well, the baby wasn't really dead. Once you were under anesthetic, Dr. C. came out of the operating room and told me that the baby wasn't really dead and asked Dad and I what we wanted him to do. We told him to abort it. If you say anything about this to anyone, I will deny it."

So much for a woman's choice.

The whole link is here: ABORTION CONCERN: Abortion Story 062: Jeannie

 

[jillio]

Where do you dig this stuff up? It needs to be published under "FICTION.":roll: And not very good fiction, at that. Sub-category: delusional ramblings.

 

[lsfoster]

I have to say that abortion is one of those issues I just don't think I'll ever be able to sort out in my head. The thing is that none of the regular issues seem to apply. In everyday life, we judge if someone is "alive" by their heart beating. Going by this, a fetus is "alive" within the first three weeks of conception. It does, however, depends on its mother for protection while it develops, and would not be able to survive on its own outside the womb until sometime in the 5th month. This also raises some interesting questions about people who rely on others (aides, family, etc...) in every day life, or people who are on life-support, and how we should categorize them.

Personally, I'm against abortions. I could never have one, I do think that after a certain point they're just glorified murder, and in a perfect world, I would not want them to be available after the first few weeks. I do realize that this would not be a viable choice now, since our country just does not have the sexual education system in place to support this. So what're ya gonna do. :shrug:

 

[jillio]

I have to say that abortion is one of those issues I just don't think I'll ever be able to sort out in my head. The thing is that none of the regular issues seem to apply. In everyday life, we judge if someone is "alive" by their heart beating. Going by this, a fetus is "alive" within the first three weeks of conception. It does, however, depends on its mother for protection while it develops, and would not be able to survive on its own outside the womb until sometime in the 5th month. This also raises some interesting questions about people who rely on others (aides, family, etc...) in every day life, or people who are on life-support, and how we should categorize them.

Personally, I'm against abortions. I could never have one, I do think that after a certain point they're just glorified murder, and in a perfect world, I would not want them to be available after the first few weeks. I do realize that this would not be a viable choice now, since our country just does not have the sexual education system in place to support this. So what're ya gonna do. :shrug:

What you do is make the choice for yourself that you are able to live with, and allow others to do the same. JMO.

 

[dreama]

I have to say that abortion is one of those issues I just don't think I'll ever be able to sort out in my head. The thing is that none of the regular issues seem to apply. In everyday life, we judge if someone is "alive" by their heart beating. Going by this, a fetus is "alive" within the first three weeks of conception. It does, however, depends on its mother for protection while it develops, and would not be able to survive on its own outside the womb until sometime in the 5th month. This also raises some interesting questions about people who rely on others (aides, family, etc...) in every day life, or people who are on life-support, and how we should categorize them.

Personally, I'm against abortions. I could never have one, I do think that after a certain point they're just glorified murder, and in a perfect world, I would not want them to be available after the first few weeks. I do realize that this would not be a viable choice now, since our country just does not have the sexual education system in place to support this. So what're ya gonna do. :shrug:

Good post!