A question on human mind, words and thinking

Its just like while you are writing. Words just come to you and your fingers type them right? Do the same thing but without typing this time. Its actually easier for you to do this than me trying to visualize my thoughts. You already gave a great command on written language which is based on words.

No its not like paragraphs :) You already know your car. I dont think about its description or visualize it. Its already in my subconscious , I know what I am looking for without consciously thinking. Though if I parked it a specific lot, where I know its number.. I keep it in my and remember it again while looking for the car , like A34 .

I think most of the things we deal in daily life , we deal with them at a subconscious level. We dont really think about many things while we do them. You are right , otherwise would be exhausting. :)

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The paragraphs and all that text is what I thought you meant before we had this conversation, but I know better now that you've explained it to me
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This was a very interesting topic. Well done.

I have to say, in trying to teach my deaf son sign language, or even how to communicate before I even new sign.-I HAD thought about this, about what is going through his mind. So I would have to explain it like this...
(Mind you I am NOT deaf - so I can only speculate about how I feel it would be to think in the way of not having 'words' to go along with my thinking.)

I just looked out the window and thought to myself (in words) "I wonder when my son's bus is going to be here" Then I realized as I 'thought those words, I also visualized his bus turning the corner as my brows crossed as in a questionable expression. So I would think that if I wasn't using words to 'think' then that is how it would have been for me...seeing the bus turn the corner with an expression of concern or wonderment on my face...all visual, all pictures.

Did that make sense? LOL

Renee
 
This was a very interesting topic. Well done.

I have to say, in trying to teach my deaf son sign language, or even how to communicate before I even new sign.-I HAD thought about this, about what is going through his mind. So I would have to explain it like this...
(Mind you I am NOT deaf - so I can only speculate about how I feel it would be to think in the way of not having 'words' to go along with my thinking.)

I just looked out the window and thought to myself (in words) "I wonder when my son's bus is going to be here" Then I realized as I 'thought those words, I also visualized his bus turning the corner as my brows crossed as in a questionable expression. So I would think that if I wasn't using words to 'think' then that is how it would have been for me...seeing the bus turn the corner with an expression of concern or wonderment on my face...all visual, all pictures.

Did that make sense? LOL

Renee

Makes perfect sense, and I commend you for tring to enter into your son's world on such a fundamental level. It really is simple when we just realx and let it happen, isn't it. Then we begin to make those connections that make so much sense, instead of all the confusing and contradictory information fed to us by the audis and the doctors.

BTW, ILoveMyDeafSon, too!:giggle:
 
I think in Pictures. Pictures of the 'word', like "sit down" saw a picture of someone sitting. almost like a mini movie.
 
Might be slightly off-topic, but I've been wondering something similar. (And I apologize if someone already said this, I tried to read all of the previous posts, but skimmed through some of them, they were long! ;) ) If you've grown up signing, do you think in sign? I was in class the other day, and I was fascinated to watch my teacher trying to write a word on the board. Halfway through, he fingerspelled it to himself to make sure he was writing it correctly. Now as a hearing person, if I were trying to spell something, I would just sound it out to myself, but obviously that wouldn't work the same way for everyone. So when you have a conversation, or when you write a sentence down, do you think it in sign? Or just in concepts or images?
 
Might be slightly off-topic, but I've been wondering something similar. (And I apologize if someone already said this, I tried to read all of the previous posts, but skimmed through some of them, they were long! ;) ) If you've grown up signing, do you think in sign? I was in class the other day, and I was fascinated to watch my teacher trying to write a word on the board. Halfway through, he fingerspelled it to himself to make sure he was writing it correctly. Now as a hearing person, if I were trying to spell something, I would just sound it out to myself, but obviously that wouldn't work the same way for everyone. So when you have a conversation, or when you write a sentence down, do you think it in sign? Or just in concepts or images?

I wasn't raised signing, so hopefully somebody else will answer you, but when I sign, I don't sign at all the way I write. The word order isn't similar, and some gestures have no word equivalents, so if I'm translating something I've signed into words, I have to go back to concepts and re-form the sentence into English words before I write them. However, when I'm trying to spell something, most of my spelling skills have come from using computers, so if I'm writing something or fingerspelling something and trying to remember how it's spelled, sometimes I have to sort of type it out on an imaginary keyboard. I have noticed that when I'm reading captions on TV, I often picture the signs for the words somehow. Kinda weird, yeah, but when somebody on the screen makes a gesture that looks like a sign, it distracts me and I miss what is said. Sometimes I think it would be funny to make a list of signs that hearing people sign a lot without realising they're signs, just the way they move around when they're speaking.
 
I was too young when I learned sign language (1.5 years old) to remember what ran through my mind before that. So I can't help with that ..

But, I have often wondered the exact same thing when it comes to animals, at least household pets anyway. Dogs learn basic commands such as "sit, stay, roll over, shake, come," etc. Cats are usually a little too aloof to bother ;) (And IMO, they don't actually understand that "sit" is a word, but they learn the sound that "sit" makes and learns/identifies it when it is spoken.) And, most pets only know a few words. Yet they, and all other animals, seem to understand human nature and instincts. Just like people.

That makes me wonder what runs through these animals' minds when they don't have a real vocabulary. It's not like they think "Oh, that dog's bigger than me. I better bristle and bark to scare him off so he doesn't hurt me." So I kind of think it is the same for people - that there isn't human chatter but human instincts kick in (a smile, frown, scared eyes, hiding, etc.) So the mind's working, but not in words. It's still enough to keep a human busy. Just my thoughts.

I think animals think in pictures.
 
What an interesting thread! :)

Even though I was born totally blind, I happen to be a very visual person.

For example, when I started learning tactile sign, I memorized fingerspelling and individual signs by picturing how they were made in my mind.

Later, as I became more comfortable and fluent with signing, I started picturing individual signs (words) as Braille characters (i.e. short form words). Since Braille has been something I've been using since I was 4/5 years old, it seems only natural for me to think in this manner.

If, however, I'm out and about and am traveling from point A to point B, I visualize certain landmarks in the environment so I am able to get a better overall picture of my surroundings. I also use a Mowat Sensor (a handheld device that emits distinct patterns of vibration when it detects an object) which helps me gain additional information about my environment.

Many sighted-hearing people I've met are surprised that a person who is congenitally totally blind can be a visual learner, but several of my friends who were also born completely blind are the same way. They happen to be excellent spellers because they (just as I did) learned how to visualize words in Grade I (uncontracted) Braille instead of Grade II (contracted) Braille.
 
What an interesting thread! :)

Even though I was born totally blind, I happen to be a very visual person.

For example, when I started learning tactile sign, I memorized fingerspelling and individual signs by picturing how they were made in my mind.

Later, as I became more comfortable and fluent with signing, I started picturing individual signs (words) as Braille characters (i.e. short form words). Since Braille has been something I've been using since I was 4/5 years old, it seems only natural for me to think in this manner.

If, however, I'm out and about and am traveling from point A to point B, I visualize certain landmarks in the environment so I am able to get a better overall picture of my surroundings. I also use a Mowat Sensor (a handheld device that emits distinct patterns of vibration when it detects an object) which helps me gain additional information about my environment.

Many sighted-hearing people I've met are surprised that a person who is congenitally totally blind can be a visual learner, but several of my friends who were also born completely blind are the same way. They happen to be excellent spellers because they (just as I did) learned how to visualize words in Grade I (uncontracted) Braille instead of Grade II (contracted) Braille.

wow that's interesting. I figured that for a DB person that was born without sight to have to be able to use much imagination in the brain to try to draw a "mind picture" than what a sighted person would see with his/her own eyes. If you could describe what you would imagine what a place looks in your mind, would it be closer to what I see with my own 2 eyes?
 
wow that's interesting. I figured that for a DB person that was born without sight to have to be able to use much imagination in the brain to try to draw a "mind picture" than what a sighted person would see with his/her own eyes. If you could describe what you would imagine what a place looks in your mind, would it be closer to what I see with my own 2 eyes?

I know this question isn't directed at me, but here is what I think. There are a couple of things I think about this that lead me to believe the answer would be yes. First, we are all using the same language here on this thread to communicate, one that we learned to associate with visual things that we grew up associating with. If that makes any sense, that means that if we were each to describe an object we encountered separately, we would probably describe it in a way that we would each agree that it was the same object. Of course, if two perfectly sighted people encountered the same object separately and later described it, the description would be different, but I think there would be the same amount of agreement that it is the same object.

I also think that if you were not born totally blind, but instead were born with perfect vision, then suddenly lost all of your vision at, say, age 30, you would relatively soon acquire the ability to describe input from your other senses visually. I say this based on my personal experience. I've never been blind, but I've managed to hold onto my hearing relatively well using increasingly sophisticated technology until this summer, when I ran out of technology, so from my perspective, I abruptly lost all of my hearing all at once. However, it's been some time now, not even half a year though, an my brain is already processing input from other senses as sound. I know where my brain is getting this information, but at the same time, my brain is causing me to "hear" the sounds things are making through my imaginary ear. Uh, perhaps an example. I used to have an air bed, but recently it has been losing too much air. My aunt got a boyfriend and moved away, as she frequently does, and so she gifted me her bed when she left. This new bed has an inner-spring mattress. It seems the springs inside the mattress vibrate to certain frequencies that happen in this house, and so I feel the vibration in my legs. Also, when I'm alone in my kitchen and somebody comes in the room behind me and starts walking around, I know they're there. I usually even know who they are even when I'm not expecting anybody. I can turn directly to them. This is because I can feel their vibration in the floor. I never realised how receptive my feet were. I bet if music were converted digitally to a low enough frequency, it could be perceived through the feet. I find it fascinating how my feet are able to tell what direction the vibration is coming from every bit as accurately as my ears ever were. There are so many other senses that my body and brain collect and use to create the sound of the world around me when my ears no longer contribute to it, and I know that this is only the beginning. While I was at our concert the other day, I realised that my feet (even inside my dress shoes) could feel the piano playing in the floor of the stage, and I could feel it well enough to be able to find my spot on the page in the music.

When I first lost my hearing, nothing seemed real without sound. But now, my whole world is alive and communicating with me better than ever!

Off topic: Our ASL instructor was telling us all about Deaf culture and how proud he was to be a part of it, and how losing his hearing opened up a whole new world for him. One student then told him that he should face the facts that hearing loss is an impairment, that it is a health problem that should be solved. Being as that was the beginning of the class, our instructor spent the next hour in a rant, telling us that hearing is the impairment, and that it already has a cure: an operation to cut the auditory nerves. I believed he was just offended and defending his position. But now, I'm able to see how one might truly believe that.

Back on topic: I think this all boils down to the fact that our brains are always wanting to build a model of the world around us through whatever means it as at its disposal. If it doesn't have sound, it will use any and all other senses. If it doesn't have vision, it will do the same thing. It may not actually be a picture, as I've said many times in this thread, but it will certainly be a direct, non-ambiguous representation of our physical world filled with every detail it can get its imaginary hands on, and anything it doesn't know, it will fill in with its imagination. There is still no computer or supercomputer in the world capable of filling in the blanks to the level of accuracy the human brain does it every second of every day. What we're describing to each other is largely our memory of our imagination, and since we use the same terms to describe things to each other, and if we didn't know what senses each of us didn't have, we might assume everybody has the same array of senses.
 
wow that's interesting. I figured that for a DB person that was born without sight to have to be able to use much imagination in the brain to try to draw a "mind picture" than what a sighted person would see with his/her own eyes. If you could describe what you would imagine what a place looks in your mind, would it be closer to what I see with my own 2 eyes?

Sabs,

Actually, it's much easier for a DBP (deafblind person) to imagine (tactile) pictures in their mind compared to someone who was born sighted, but lost their hearing adventitiously. As SimplyMints pointed out, it's possible for that person to learn how to use their other senses (hearing, tactile, olfactory) to compensate for blindness, but it might take awhile for them to learn how to use them to the fullest extent possible.

As for how I "see" the environment, I think of objects (i.e. landmarks) in two ways. I think of how they would appear on a Braille map. In other words, if I'm in my neighborhood and am walking to the grocery store, I imagine each tactile or olfactory landmark as being on a continuum between my starting point and my final destination. I also think of landmarks (and objects) in a tactile sense. I think of how they feel on my skin, how they smell and how large or wide they are in comparision to my height.

Does that make sense, Sabs?

If you'd like me to explain further, I'd be happy to. Just let me know.
 
Sabs,

Actually, it's much easier for a DBP (deafblind person) to imagine (tactile) pictures in their mind compared to someone who was born sighted, but lost their hearing adventitiously. As SimplyMints pointed out, it's possible for that person to learn how to use their other senses (hearing, tactile, olfactory) to compensate for blindness, but it might take awhile for them to learn how to use them to the fullest extent possible.

As for how I "see" the environment, I think of objects (i.e. landmarks) in two ways. I think of how they would appear on a Braille map. In other words, if I'm in my neighborhood and am walking to the grocery store, I imagine each tactile or olfactory landmark as being on a continuum between my starting point and my final destination. I also think of landmarks (and objects) in a tactile sense. I think of how they feel on my skin, how they smell and how large or wide they are in comparision to my height.

Does that make sense, Sabs?

If you'd like me to explain further, I'd be happy to. Just let me know.

HearAgain - How absolutely fascinating! Thank you for sharing and the new vocabulary word olfactory!
 
Hmm, I know I talk too much. Only time will tell if that will change any time soon. :giggle:


I wanted to hear more actually, I can't get enough of it.

Funnily enough I noticed you mention Temple Grandin, I absolutely loved reading Thinking in pictures.. Which I mentioned in a post earlier today actually.
 
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