A Personal View

[shel90]

jillio, so what you're saying is that CS is basicly like a hand signal version of the pronounciation guides in dictionaries?
I think its a good tool. However, I think the ASL vs. Cued speech debate (on teaching dhh English) is exactly like the whole language vs. phonetics debate in the education of hearing kids. I think that BOTH methods should be used.
As well it should!

use CS as a language model, u mean?

 

[Tousi]

Just so I can see whether or not I'm understanding what the last 10-15 posts mean, let me interject this: Then what's the use of advocating for bi-bi education for deaf kids in order to be successful in both worlds?

 

[shel90]

Just so I can see whether or not I'm understanding what the last 10-15 posts mean, let me interject this: Then what's the use of advocating for bi-bi education for deaf kids in order to be successful in both worlds?

Can u rephrase the question?

If I understand u correctly, the support of BiBi is to ensure that all deaf children are raised in a linguistic environment that is fully accessible to them not partially.

 

[rockdrummer]

Loml - I don't mean offense. Maybe I misunderstand cued speech, but I don't see the benefit.

You can't deny those that say it made the connection for them. Perhaps it's not useful to all but as long as some benefit, I would say its worthwhile. What I have noticed is that not all methods work for everyone. It's good that there are many to choose from in order to find what works best for a given individual / situation.

 

[Dixie]

If I am correct: The child needs a base language before CS can be used. I think what the author of the essay has failed to realize is that he already had a base language of spoken English before he was given a CST. While yes by the time we are in middle school to junior high we have a good grasp on the structure of spoken english and what the words look like when mouthed. though with the example of beach and peach they can look alike when spoken alone, but whilst speech reading I often have an idea of which is used based on the context clues that have come before it - such as

"Would you like go to the beach?"

vs. "Would you like to pick some peaches?"

If the phrase I get does not make sense -- then I ask for a clarified repeat. Although speechreading is helpful it is not however 100% accurate at times especially if the person is a foreigner with a heavy accent. During these times a CST would be incredibly helpful so I dont lose further material having to ask for a repeat.

Would CS work with a child whose base language is ASL?

 

[shel90]

If I am correct: The child needs a base language before CS can be used. I think what the author of the essay has failed to realize is that he already had a base language of spoken English before he was given a CST. While yes by the time we are in middle school to junior high we have a good grasp on the structure of spoken english and what the words look like when mouthed. though with the example of beach and peach they can look alike when spoken alone, but whilst speech reading I often have an idea of which is used based on the context clues that have come before it - such as

"Would you like go to the beach?"

vs. "Would you like to pick some peaches?"

If the phrase I get does not make sense -- then I ask for a clarified repeat. Although speechreading is helpful it is not however 100% accurate at times especially if the person is a foreigner with a heavy accent. During these times a CST would be incredibly helpful so I dont lose further material having to ask for a repeat.

Would CS work with a child whose base language is ASL?[/QUOTE]

It did for the aide that I mentioned earlier. She acquired ASL as her first language. She has absulotely no oral skills at all but she is fluent in both English and ASL.

 

[rockdrummer]

Can u rephrase the question?

If I understand u correctly, the support of BiBi is to ensure that all deaf children are raised in a linguistic environment that is fully accessible to them not partially.

Couldn't one argue that english is accessable to a deaf person depending the approach?

 

[Kaitin]

You can't deny those that say it made the connection for them. Perhaps it's not useful to all but as long as some benefit, I would say its worthwhile. What I have noticed is that not all methods work for everyone. It's good that there are many to choose from in order to find what works best for a given individual / situation.

Edited: I know I wasn't clear because of Rockdrummer's reply so I asked my roommate to read my reply. She says the word I want is "sincere" not "honest". In my first reply I write "I don't mean offense, honest. I am just ". I meant "I don't mean offense. I have sincere questions. I am just " I hope now I am clear.

Rockdrummer: I am not denying anything or saying only one method for all. I just don't understand cued speech. I agree everyone is different and need different approaches - not "one fit all" thinking. These all are why I ask and not to just criticize cued speech. I never use cued speech and don't see the benefit and wonder what I don't know about how cued speech works. I guess that Loml really loves cued speech or teaches cued speech and so probably could explain the benefit I don't see. I don't mean to fight or offend. Before this thread I don't really understand cued speech at all and reading loml's article made me more confused with rhyming and science and math terms (I am Chemistry major and Math minor and use vocab lists so I really want a better way if possible) so I want some answers. Then I wonder about the benefit because I don't see any. I want to learn more and not just dismiss anything because I don't know.

 

[shel90]

Couldn't one argue that english is accessable to a deaf person depending the approach?

Yea, that's the point of BiBi...to make English accessible and understood by utilizing the children's first language.

I hope I answered your question. If not, pls let me know. I feel like I am missing something here. Thanks

 

[rockdrummer]

Edited: I know I wasn't clear because of Rockdrummer's reply so I asked my roommate to read my reply. She says the word I want is "sincere" not "honest". In my first reply I write "I don't mean offense, honest. I am just ". I meant "I don't mean offense. I have sincere questions. I am just " I hope now I am clear.

Rockdrummer: I am not denying anything or saying only one method for all. I just don't understand cued speech. I agree everyone is different and need different approaches - not "one fit all" thinking. These all are why I ask and not to just criticize cued speech. I never use cued speech and don't see the benefit and wonder what I don't know about how cued speech works. I guess that Loml really loves cued speech or teaches cued speech and so probably could explain the benefit I don't see. I don't mean to fight or offend. Before this thread I don't really understand cued speech at all and reading loml's article made me more confused with rhyming and science and math terms (I am Chemistry major and Math minor and use vocab lists so I really want a better way if possible) so I want some answers. Then I wonder about the benefit because I don't see any. I want to learn more and not just dismiss anything because I don't know.

it's ok.. I get what you mean. The reason you don't see a benefit might be because you don't understand it as you said. I can admit that I don't understand it completly but from my standpoint, if some people benefit from it then it's worthwhile. Perhaps my view is a bit simplistic.

 

[rockdrummer]

Yea, that's the point of BiBi...to make English accessible and understood by utilizing the children's first language.

I hope I answered your question. If not, pls let me know. I feel like I am missing something here. Thanks

I guess my point was that you don't need a bi bi approach to aquire english.

 

[Kaitin]

it's ok.. I get what you mean. The reason you don't see a benefit might be because you don't understand it as you said. I can admit that I don't understand it completly but from my standpoint, if some people benefit from it then it's worthwhile. Perhaps my view is a bit simplistic.

Probably not "simplistic", Rockdrummer - to me 100% argreement about "if some people benefit from it then it's worthwhile".

I don't understand cued speech completely also so maybe Loml or someone who also knows cued speech explains more. Cued speech makes no sense to me and I know probably this is because I don't understand or misunderstand.

 

[jillio]

I guess my point was that you don't need a bi bi approach to aquire english.

But CS could be used as a tool to teach English in a Bi-Bi atmosphere. In a Bi-Bi educational setting, the child's L1 language would be ASL. English can be taught as the L2 language, with CS added as a visual tool for doing so just as written English provides a written tool. However, the L2 language will be stronger and more easily assimilated if the L1 language has provided a foundation for the learning of the L2 langauge from a conceptual standpoint.

 

[shel90]

I guess my point was that you don't need a bi bi approach to aquire english.

Oh yes for deaf children because ASL is visual and fully accessible to them and they can captialize on ASL to gain access and understanding of English.

 

[shel90]

But CS could be used as a tool to teach English in a Bi-Bi atmosphere. In a Bi-Bi educational setting, the child's L1 language would be ASL. English can be taught as the L2 language, with CS added as a visual tool for doing so just as written English provides a written tool. However, the L2 language will be stronger and more easily assimilated if the L1 language has provided a foundation for the learning of the L2 langauge from a conceptual standpoint.