A opinion about Christians whining about same sex marriage

[derek7names]

You're inanely picking at semantics in an attempt to prove me wrong. I'm still not wrong.

I'm just saying that if you are going to debate with someone at least be factual. I mean if you want to prove The Bible wrong I'm sure there's lots of ways you can go about trying to do it, but by saying things that just aren't in it? That's just silly.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Ok, think whatever you want. I know and can easily list the verses to support my statements but I think it's ridiculous that I have to educate a "Christian" on what the bible says. They should know already.

 

[Banjo]

The Phrase "Spare the rod, spoil the child" came from a poem written in 1662 by Samuel Better. Popular culture would have you believe that it is a Bible verse, but alas, 'tis not.

Actually, it's a proverb of the original verse.

 

[derek7names]

Ok, think whatever you want. I know and can easily list the verses to support my statements but I think it's ridiculous that I have to educate a "Christian" on what the bible says. They should know already.

No, you don't have to educate me, because the Bible says nothing about woman having to abort their children and nothing about them having to burned at the stake. I'm sorry. It's inaccurate.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Actually, it's a proverb of the original verse.

Exactly.

 

[Beowulf]

I knew someone who would utterly misquote proverbs and drove me nuts. For example, she would say, "You can't make a horse drink." I would point out that it is actually "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
"So? You can't make it drink!"
Arghhh.

 

[DeafCaroline]

No, you don't have to educate me, because the Bible says nothing about woman having to abort their children and nothing about them having to burned at the stake. I'm sorry. It's inaccurate.

Hahaha!! ok, whatever you believe.

 

[derek7names]

Hahaha!! ok, whatever you believe.

How did you come to believe that The Bible says that? I mean, did you read it? Did someone tell you that? Cus if so, refer me to that person or Bible translation. I mean all you have to do to convince me is to google it, and copy and paste the verse. I've already done it and can find nothing.

 

[SimonJ]

I knew someone who would utterly misquote proverbs and drove me nuts. For example, she would say, "You can't make a horse drink." I would point out that it is actually "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
"So? You can't make it drink!"
Arghhh.

I know a few Christians who think Evolution is just a theory.

 

[DeafCaroline]

How did you come to believe that The Bible says that? I mean, did you read it? Did someone tell you that? Cus if so, refer me to that person or Bible translation. I mean all you have to do to convince me is to google it, and copy and paste the verse. I've already done it and can find nothing.

I said I can easily list verses to support my statements. No wonder you're unclear on what the bible says if you have an inability to register what I actually said.

I can tell already that you are being inane about the spare the rod, spoil the child - which is a summary of that proverb. You told me the bible doesn't say that but YES IT DOES. so, if you're doing to deny that, then there's no point discussing anything else. Your problem is you don't want to believe me and will find any way to prove me wrong even if it means grasping at straws like the actual syntax of a sentence.

So, discussion over.

 

[derek7names]

'Twas lovely chatting with you.

 

[Reba]

I still don't see any inaccuracies.

The Bible wasn't written 2,000 years ago. Jesus Christ, during His earthly life 2,000 years ago, frequently quoted Old Testament scriptures that were given to the Jews centuries before.

The Bible doesn't say the earth is flat.

But eh, Christians are not very good at being open-minded to hearing things like the word Hell came from a mistranslation for the Greek word "grave" and this mistranslation happened during the Medieval Ages when they were descending into well, the Dark Ages.

I don't know what the problem is. We study the differences of the words Heaven, Hell, Sheol, Paradise, Abraham's Bosom, the Lake of Fire, Gehenna, etc.

The bible was originally composed of several books written in different languages that were eventually translated and compiled together. there is such thing as cultural influences and mistranslations and misperceptions, all of which got incorporated into religious texts.

BTW, The Holy Bible of Christians is the title of a specific book, so it's capitalized. The Bible is a proper noun when referring to the The Holy Bible. It's lower cased only when referring to any authoritative book, such as the angler's bible, the chef's bible, the bible of engineers, etc.

Actually, the canon of the Bible books were assembled before they were translated. If you want to critique translations, you have to be specific about which translation. They weren't all done the same way.

 

[Reba]

rolling7 - I was on a debate team. Rule 101 - do not make statements you cannot prove.

I didn't say the great flood was untrue nor the plagues of Egypt - scientists and archaeologists have already tackled those stories to find out if they were true and indeed, historically, they were true. Another guy have proven that the lost tribes of Israel did exist and he tracked them down to their current day locations, one of the tribes is the Jews of Jerba in Tunisia, famous for their silversmiths. Another is in Ethiopia.

The other thing that bugs me about the preaching of the Bible is the cop out...Prove to me God exists. Priest replies, you just need to have faith. That's all the proof you need.

I can't answer for what any priest preached or said to you as I wasn't there. All I can say is that is not how my pastor answers questions about God.

I did study the history of the bible and I will not argue historical events for naturally, people record them but the more fantastical stories? Ummm...c'mon. I do not doubt that we all have a need to believe in something greater than us and I do not doubt that indeed there is a superior force out there that is creating all this life. No doubt at all.

I'm not going to argue with you either. You will believe whatever you choose to believe.

But I do not like attempted control through use of the bible and to tell people they must do this or that or they are not getting into heaven for being bad little kids.

That's not what the Bible says. If someone told you that, he was wrong.

I do understand the bible was also a set of laws for civillized behaviour in society so we can get along instead of all out bloody warfare.

That certainly was one benefit but not the primary reason for God's laws.

Most Christians I've met are not very Christ-like. They don't pay tithes, support the poor, be kind to their neighbours nor take good care of domesticated animals, which biblically, are said to have souls.

I'm sorry that you haven't met the same Christians that I have. Sadly, anyone can say he or she is a Christian. There are biblical guidelines for identifying Christians but not everyone is aware of that.

As an aside, how do you know how much they gave for tithes and supporting the poor? Were you their tax accountant?

They destroy this wonderful planet God gave them, I don't see that as very respectful to their God. He gave them life, they are killing it.

Christians are responsible for destroying our planet? First of all, what proof do you have that our planet is being destroyed? Secondly, what proof do you have that only Christians, or even mostly Christians are doing the supposed destruction? I've never seen any such statistics.

I do support the message of Jesus which is to be good, kind, neighbourly, generous, understanding, unconditional love even towards the Judahs.

But you don't accept the rest of His message. That's interesting.

He preaches forgiveness and acceptance.

Not exactly. Jesus taught forgiveness but He never taught acceptance of sin.

But that doesn't make me believe he's god, just a very brilliant philosopher who was way ahead of his time and deeply spiritual. He was a Jew, naturally his upbringing in the Old Testament is going to factor into his spiritual beliefs.

Yet, you believe only parts of what He taught, so really you don't believe Him at all. Either He spoke the truth or He didn't.

I'd rather people BE and ACT like Christians than quote from the Bible to tell others "this is wrong cause GOD says so."

God tells His people to be not just sayers of His Word but also doers of His Word. That is, Christians are supposed to quote the Bible and live the Bible.

How about Christians practice what they preach and just go out there and be like Christ instead of casting the finger of judgement upon everyone.

Being Christlike does include preaching the Gospel. Christians are called to judge themselves and the actions of others. Not to judge people but their actions.

Can anyone visualize Jesus spewing profanities at gays or bombing an abortion shelter or telling abused wives to be quiet and not complain for divorce is wrong?

No. Christians are not supposed to do those things either.

Yet the bible is used to justify those things. That's sick. It really is.

Yes, it is sick when people pervert the Bible to fit their own agendas.

As far as i am concerned, people have no business calling themselves Christians if they are not behaving as Christ would have wanted them to.

That's why Christians are supposed to be the salt for the earth and not hide their light under a bushel. In other words, they are supposed to speak up against sin, and not ignore it. They are also supposed to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ and His salvation.

Just believing God exists is not enough.

That's true. Even the Devil believes that God exists.

 

[Reba]

um....one example, the bread and the fish, another, walking on water, yet another, talking serpent and the tree of life. Ever heard of the game "telephone"? the story get distorted as it gets passed from one person to the other. Things become embellished and exaggerated and some even become the stuff of legends.

If you prefer to believe that the miracles of the Bible can be explained away by a game of telephone, that's your choice.

But that's besides the point. Who gives a flying fuck if god parted the red sea (yes, that's been proven as true but not exactly as was described in the bible)? who can prove it was god who created those historical events?

God's name is a proper noun, so it should be capitalized. So, for that matter, should the Red Sea.

Too bad you can't rationally discuss this without using profanity.

The parting of the Red Sea doesn't need to be "proven" any other way. The Bible describes what happened.

the important question here is are you living your life as Christ? Jesus didn't show up to tell people to just believe in the book and make religious artefacts and spend millions on churches and sit their ass down on a pew for a couple of hours a week and listen to reliigious radio and music, he's telling them to go out there and do good. otherwise what's the bloody point of Christianity in the first place?

What a bizarre description. Jesus came to earth to sacrifice His blood for our sins, so that no one need go to Hell but can enjoy eternal life in Heaven in His presence. Jesus did tell people to believe in and obey the Scriptures, just as He did. After all, it was the prophets of the Bible who foretold His arrival.

You're correct that Jesus was against idolatry, which would include making religious artifacts. Also, as He displayed in His righteous anger at the Temple moneychangers, He was not a supporter of religious rip offs. He did expect His followers to meet together on a regular basis for prayer, worship, teaching, and preaching; I guess that might include sitting on pews and chairs to accomplish. Music has always been a part of joyful worship in the Bible. I'm not sure what your argument is against music. Christians can certainly "go out there and do good" without giving up music.

The point of being a Christian is to become more Christlike, to spread the Gospel, and to disciple the believers.

 

[Reba]

Reba, I respect you a lot but I just dont believe the concept of God because it was written by men. I love men but historically, it was men who have always had control over women so call me a feminist or whatever, the idea of that just turns me off.

The Bible doesn't teach that men should always have control over women. Men who use the Bible as a justification to carry out their own oppressive behavior are just plain wrong.

 

[Reba]

The Bible clearly teaches us not to judge others. I do my best not to judge others. After all I am only human and I've done wrong things. Since I've done wrong, who am I to judge others?

This is the full context:

Matthew 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


You see, the Bible doesn't say not to judge at all. It says if you do judge others, be sure that you judge yourself first, and remove the sin from your own life first.

Don't judge others without expecting to be judged back.

That's what it says.

People often overlook the rest of the passage.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

So if it's written, it must be true? It's because I'm a history major that I know two things: history is full of mistakes, inaccuracies and purposeful distortions. I also know kings and rulers love using religion to control the populace and make them conform. All they have to do is say "God says..." and people fall in line, no questions asked.

"I wonder how we know this, and whether it is true."

–E.H. Carr, What Is History?

 

[Reba]

...All stories, all fables have roots in truth. The stories written in the bible used to be passed down from mouth to mouth.
People didn't have printers 2000 years ago, they learned through memory. They learn through storytelling.

Which is why God gave His Word directly to His prophets, in order to get the story straight, without any passing down thru storytelling or depending on memory.

Yes, there is a chronicle of historical events in the bible but they've been manipulated in order to support this theory of God.

Manipulated? By whom, and how, especially since there was more than one prophet involved in the writing, over many centuries, in many locations.

If there was a drought that drained the water level allowing people to pass, the bible will say god parted the waters. that's when accuracy becomes distorted and manipulated to promote an ideology. That's when history becomes a story, a fable.

The problem is, that doesn't fit the description in the Bible at all. If there was a drought, how did it drown the Pharaoh's pursuing men and horses?

Exodus 14

19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: 20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night. 21 And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. 22 And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left. 23 And the Egyptians pursued , and went in after them to the midst of the sea, even all Pharaoh's horses, his chariots, and his horsemen. 24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians, 25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians. 26 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen. 27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea. 28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them. 29 But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left. 30 Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.

 

[StSapphire]

Reba: Avoiding the whole dustup over the accuracy of the bible itself, since I'm sure you know my opinion on that and the like, what is your opinion of my proposed solution? (Removing all legal potency of the term "marriage" and allowing it to be reserved to religious institutions.)

 

[DeafCaroline]

The premise that it's even possible that any religions could be correct or "real" (the things they believe in, that is - obviously the religion itself is real, since you can see the adherents everywhere, lol).

Well, let's put it this way - 90% of the people on this planet are religious. Is this because of a collective consciousness of something greater than us out there or within us or in Mother Earth? the fact that such an overwhelming majority of the people on this planet believes in divinity tells me that indeed, maybe the primordial ooze in us is aware of something that we've forgotten which is creation of life, that we all come from some inexplicable origin and we're aware of that.

So, is religion real? That's a tricky question. Maybe the question should be are we aware of a greater force out there? are we aware that there has to be a reason for all of this - this random growth of life on this random planet in the middle of nowhere called the universe? and that we are attempting to filter this awareness through what knowledge we have, our culture, our region, our location, our history?

These are all questions that will never have a proven answer but the fact they exist means something. And that's why I'm not an atheist, but agnostic and open to spirituality, aware of this collective consciousness we seem to share all over the world of something out there, this mysterious vague thing that created life, that created us.

so, that's why I'm not outright dismissive of people's faiths. It's organized religion itself that chafes for it's man's word, not god's, whoever and whatever that is.