Update on Andrew--now hearing whispers

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Courtaney

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In the weeks since I made my other post, our son Andrew, now 2, has begun to hear whispers, or, more likely, I've just recently realized my son could hear whispers without his hearing aids. Whispers, in a child with a diagnosed moderate to moderately severe sensorineural loss (50 to 55 dB across all frequencies in his better ear, 55 to 65 in the worse one) as well as a possible conductive loss now on top of the sensorineural, for lots of wax buildup. Yet he's hearing my whispers across the room.

Andrew was aided at 4 months corrected (he was a very early preemie). For months I have thought he could hear way better than the numbers said, but he wouldn't perform in the booth the couple of times we tried it. So all we really have to go on are his two infant ABRs, which were both very similar. It seems to be a steady progress with him, as I know he couldn't hear whispers the last time I tested for it, in the bathtub, when his back was turned--that was probably in March. He could hear my soft voice then, but not whispers. Anyway, he can answer questions, whether I am two feet from him, with my head turned away, 5 feet from him, with his back to me, or as much as 8 feet away, with my head turned so he can't see my face. And he hears them--even fairly soft whispers. I'll ask things like what does a cat say or what does a dog say, or a cow, or where's daddy--and he answers correctly, every time, not even knowing I was intending to say anything, while my husband, who knows I am about to whisper and is much closer to me, doesn't hear me at all. He is unaided, cookie bite loss, normal to about moderate at its V point. Two feet from me, he can't hear my soft whispers at all with his back turned, let alone understand them, but halfway across the room Andrew is answering my questions. It's amazing. I know at least at some frequencies, he is hearing better than my husband. While at others, my husband appears to hear better. He seems to hear the chimes from the church near our home better. Andrew could hear them just as well a couple of months ago, but he has a bad wax buildup now that we are getting cleaned soon. I am not sure if the wax has affected only the lower frequencies, maybe, or if Andrew's hearing is only better in the higher ones now, or what. All I know is that some frequencies of at least one of his ears have to be normal, which is amazing and has left us, and our audiologist, almost speechless. I think she's starting to believe me finally, after this.

We will know more next week, as he will be under for an ABR and wax cleaning, ear exam, possible tube, plus a tonsillectomy. I am hoping the tests go well and we can see what's going on--how much better things really are. Since my last post I've found another parent on Facebook who has a 24-weeker son whose sensorineural loss has improved dramatically, first in one ear and now apparently in the other too. She was looking for other cases like his. Her audiologist told her it's very rare to ever see any improvement in snhl. I am wondering if it has something to do with their young ages when born, that perhaps the ears didn't completely develop optimal hearing for them until much later than would be the norm, for some reason, maybe because their bodies were working so hard to just survive. Andrew's ABRs were at 2 1/2 and 4 months corrected age. Apparently this is all still cutting edge stuff because babies so young (especially Andrew's 23 weeks) haven't survived for long enough to have good longterm studies done in much at all. And hearing loss, even among preemies, is still rather rare.
 
That's really good news. I hope he continues to improve, and that you get some good answers from his next exam and cleaning out of the wax build-up.
 
That is great news!

However, its important to know that most people hear better when they are in the shower or bathtub because water is better at carrying sound than air is.

Didn't have time to find something really official to back up my observation, but here's something unofficial for now:

Why Can You Hear Better On Foggy Days? | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News | F.A.Q.

So, perhaps you could try informally testing your son in another room?

It makes a lot of sense to me though that a premie baby's senses might continue to develop after birth. If that happened to your son, my guess is that you would want to get his HAs adjusted very quickly because if his HAs are too powerful for him, it will destroy what hearing he has instead of help him.
 
Wirelessly posted

cookie bite losses are extremely rare and they exhibit behavior exactly what you are describing. I know of a mom whose loss wasn't found well into school because she had a cookie bit loss. It was finally discovered because of the dreaded spelling test! If you would like her information, i can ask if she wouldn't mind me passing it along. She has the cookie bite loss as well as one of her daughter's.
 
Thank you all. I can't wait to see what happens with the testing.

Jazzberry, I tested him in the bathtub only in March, when he could hear my soft voice but no whispers. I've tested him about everywhere but in water with the whispers these past couple of weeks, the first time I'd tried since March. His bedroom, while he was on his changing table was first, and I had my head angled away. Then some times in the kitchen and the living room, on different days, from large distances. It's exciting because I always knew he still had a loss if he couldn't hear whispers. Now I don't know, when he can hear them so well, even from quite a few feet away. I should say, a sensorineural loss. I think he has some loss at some frequencies now, but it could be from the wax, as the pediatrician said it was awful in one ear and pretty bad in the other. They decided to clean it during his surgery then. He doesn't hear my husband opening the door to come in, when he's in the other room, without his aids now.

Faire jour, I am sorry I worded the part about the cookie bite loss badly. It's my husband that has that kind of loss. His hearing started getting bad in his 20s and he's now in his 40s. He learned this officially when he failed a hearing exam in both ears. His brother and sister have the same kind of loss. My husband has normal at the 500, mild loss at the 1000, moderate loss (actually pretty low moderate too on finding his audiogram, it's in the 50s at the 2000), and then back to mild at the high frequencies. His brother's V is at the 1000, so he has mild loss at the 500 and then normal by the 3000 in at least one ear. His brother's was the first loss discovered in the family, though, in his teen years, and that's probably because his lower frequencies were affected more. Their sister's V point is somewhere in between her brothers'. This kind of loss is so intriguing because my husband, who's unaided, can't hear certain things that seem loud to me but at the same time can pick out faint sounds at obviously different frequencies. We were taking a walk this summer and there were really loud tree frogs. He couldn't hear them at all, but acknowledged the much softer dog barking and people talking sounds from far away. There was also a strange night bird making these shrieks near our home, and I wanted him to help me identify it. He couldn't hear them, only very faintly, once, when the bird got close. So I guess it hit right at the 2000 for him. Perhaps my whispers are also at that frequency, which is why he's having trouble. When I compare his 2000 to Andrew's ABR, though, they are very similar--both have one ear at the 50, and Andrew's other ear is lower than my husband's--60 compared to 55.

Andrew's ABR reads like this--500: L55, R55; 1000: L50, right 60; 2000: L50, R60; and 4000: L55; R65. It almost makes a rhombus shape when you plot it out, except that the 4000 right one is a hair lower. It points to loud conversation being able to be heard, but not understood well, without aids. But nothing on his audiogram points to the ability to hear whispers halfway across the room or even close. His speech therapists and hearing therapist had also suspected his loss was more mild for a long time. But I knew it was always at least that since he couldn't hear whispers. Now that he can, and can hear them really well, I can no longer say he has even a mild loss for sure, not across the board anyway. I know it has to be normal at some of these frequencies to do this. The audiologist had told me the wax, if it was really bad, would make his loss even worse. So I am anxious to see what happens once they clean it out--just where he tests. Surely it will be much higher than it is now on this ABR. But maybe only in one ear. I'll keep you guys posted on what we find out.
 
Forgot to say, Jazzberry, that I agree about the aids hurting his hearing if they are too powerful. We have limited their use these past couple of weeks for that reason. He had been taking them out more, but not in pain or showing any signs something is too loud. Our house is pretty quiet. But, there are still loud things sometimes--like when the A/C runs outside when he's playing--it's loud right there near it.

And Faire jour, thanks for offering about the info. My husband doesn't know a lot about it, really, just that it's gotten worse for him over time. If she has any tips that would be cool. I think he really needs hearing aids now because I am always repeating things. I know he reads lips too, some. But even knowing I was about to whisper, and looking right at my face, maybe 8 feet away, he had no clue what I said. And Andrew, an equal distance but angled so he couldn't see my face, and not knowing what I was doing, heard me great and responded.

Do whispers tend to be at one frequency or do they follow the speech banana and are varied?
 
guess what? I can hear whispers now that I have the right hearing aid for my severe loss
 
That's cool. Hearing aids are awesome! My husband needs some! But what amazes me with my son is that his loss is sensorineural, supposed to stay the same (probably 72 percent of preemies do) or get worse (28 percent, I saw in one study). They tested his ears at the time for fluid, etc. We were led to believe any improvement would be impossible, just maybe 5 to 10 dB tops on an ABR, but that 10 was pushing it. We were also told the brain can do a little better or worse than the equipment can on these ABR tests, but only a little better--again, they were meaning in the 10 dB range. To hear what he's hearing without his aids, his hearing would have to be a good 30 or 35 dB better than the infant ABRs in his better ear--meaning, normal, at least at some frequencies. It's the equivalent of someone who sees like I do (20/400) suddenly being able to see 20/30, maybe, without their glasses, contacts, or surgery. My sister-in-law says it's a miracle and isn't surprised. But I know our audiologist was floored by my description. That's why I made my original post on here--does sensorineural loss ever get better? Because after tons of searches on the net, I found not one bit of evidence or research or mention that it can. But finally, on Facebook, I found someone with an extremely premature infant who seems to have undergone the same kind of thing. So maybe there's something to it being related to extreme prematurity. Congrats on the hearing aids, BTW! I love them, and miss them in my son. He reaches up to hand them to me in his crib, when he's ready for his nap, and nothing's there. :( I do miss that. But we worry about his hearing being harmed at some of the frequencies, so we're being careful until we know for sure. Next week!!
 
Courtaney said:
Forgot to say, Jazzberry, that I agree about the aids hurting his hearing if they are too powerful. We have limited their use these past couple of weeks for that reason. He had been taking them out more, but not in pain or showing any signs something is too loud. Our house is pretty quiet. But, there are still loud things sometimes--like when the A/C runs outside when he's playing--it's loud right there near it.


?
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You know......one thing you COULD do for an additional tool is give him sign, so he can function both with and without his hearing aids. Sadly, most hoh kids don't get ASL....but you could look around and see if maybe he could go to a Dhh preschool, or opt for Sign language early intervention. He may not need it or want it....but it could still prove helpful to him. You never know.
 
My prematurely-born nephew, for the first two months of his life, did nothing but eat and sleep. He cried at certain touches; he was quite delicate, didn't like to be touched, and didn't respond much to people's faces or his mom's baby-talk to him.

I don't know specifically about his hearing, but generally speaking, all his senses seemed to "wake up" at about the time he should have been born. He began to respond to his mom, he began to like being touched and bathed and cuddled, he started focusing on things and tracking movements with his eyes. He started to smile and laugh and make cooing sounds.

I would not be surprised at all if preemies improve a great deal, given proper nutrition and adequate sleep, in many ways, for at least the number of weeks they were born premature. Maybe that is what is happening with your son.

Incidentally, my nephew is now 25 years old, and he's fine. No permanent damage in any way from being born so early.
 
Beach girl, that's awesome about your nephew! Andrew was tested on the ABR at 2.5 and 4 months corrected age (so 8 months chronological age for that last one). But maybe because he had such a bad time of it in the NICU (11 weeks on the vent, over 3 weeks on CPAP, then on oxygen for 5 more months, the last 4 at home), his hearing didn't finish developing until later. I guess it's a possibility.

Deafdyke, he hears well without his aids. This morning he signed train and I thought why is he doing that--there's no train to be heard outside. And then a few seconds later I could hear it. He actually outheard me for the first time ever today, and with a low pitched sound. That's encouraging to me because the whispers are higher sounds and I was wondering if he could hear the lower ones as good as someone with normal hearing. This morning he appeared to!

And he does know a good deal of sign. He's been watching Baby Signing Time since he was an infant and regular Signing Time since he turned 2. He loves it. He knows many more signs receptively than expressively, probably, but I'd say he's now signing maybe 100...he actually signed 35 or 40 as a baby, 14 1/2 months corrected age. He's beginning to sign some letters and colors too, and can sign some numbers. He speaks more than he signs (maybe 300 words), but his speech isn't real clear.
 
Courtaney said:
Deafdyke, he hears well without his aids. This morning he signed train and I thought why is he doing that--there's no train to be heard outside. And then a few seconds later I could hear it. He actually outheard me for the first time ever today, and with a low pitched sound. That's encouraging to me because the whispers are higher sounds and I was wondering if he could hear the lower ones as good as someone with normal hearing. This morning he appeared to!

And he does know a good deal of sign. He's been watching Baby Signing Time since he was an infant and regular Signing Time since he turned 2. He loves it. He knows many more signs receptively than expressively, probably, but I'd say he's now signing maybe 100...he actually signed 35 or 40 as a baby, 14 1/2 months corrected age. He's beginning to sign some letters and colors too, and can sign some numbers. He speaks more than he signs (maybe 300 words), but his speech isn't real clear.
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Oh that's awesome!!!!! And I mean it's clear he has an interest in Sign....which is awesome...why not enhance that? Hoh kids are eligable to learn ASL...it's not just for kids with severe/profound losses. I think the best advice I could give parents of dhh kids, is to equipt them with a full toolbox, and keep an open mind as to things like educational placements etc.
Be very child centered and see what is out there, especially educaitonally. Maybe when school comes around you could have your son evaluated by someone who is very experianced in Deaf Ed, and can make suggestions as to what might be a good placement for your son. Depending on where you are, you could take advantage of schools with dhh programs, or magent programs or even preschool at Deaf School. A lot has changed in the past ten years with regards to Deaf Ed believe it or not....it has become a lot more hoh friendly. I think you might be surprised as to what early childhood Deaf Ed can offer. It might be a good option, especially since he really likes sign...
 
Wirelessly posted

Courtaney said:
Thank you all. I can't wait to see what happens with the testing.

Jazzberry, I tested him in the bathtub only in March, when he could hear my soft voice but no whispers. I've tested him about everywhere but in water with the whispers these past couple of weeks, the first time I'd tried since March. His bedroom, while he was on his changing table was first, and I had my head angled away. Then some times in the kitchen and the living room, on different days, from large distances. It's exciting because I always knew he still had a loss if he couldn't hear whispers. Now I don't know, when he can hear them so well, even from quite a few feet away. I should say, a sensorineural loss. I think he has some loss at some frequencies now, but it could be from the wax, as the pediatrician said it was awful in one ear and pretty bad in the other. They decided to clean it during his surgery then. He doesn't hear my husband opening the door to come in, when he's in the other room, without his aids now.

Faire jour, I am sorry I worded the part about the cookie bite loss badly. It's my husband that has that kind of loss. His hearing started getting bad in his 20s and he's now in his 40s. He learned this officially when he failed a hearing exam in both ears. His brother and sister have the same kind of loss. My husband has normal at the 500, mild loss at the 1000, moderate loss (actually pretty low moderate too on finding his audiogram, it's in the 50s at the 2000), and then back to mild at the high frequencies. His brother's V is at the 1000, so he has mild loss at the 500 and then normal by the 3000 in at least one ear. His brother's was the first loss discovered in the family, though, in his teen years, and that's probably because his lower frequencies were affected more. Their sister's V point is somewhere in between her brothers'. This kind of loss is so intriguing because my husband, who's unaided, can't hear certain things that seem loud to me but at the same time can pick out faint sounds at obviously different frequencies. We were taking a walk this summer and there were really loud tree frogs. He couldn't hear them at all, but acknowledged the much softer dog barking and people talking sounds from far away. There was also a strange night bird making these shrieks near our home, and I wanted him to help me identify it. He couldn't hear them, only very faintly, once, when the bird got close. So I guess it hit right at the 2000 for him. Perhaps my whispers are also at that frequency, which is why he's having trouble. When I compare his 2000 to Andrew's ABR, though, they are very similar--both have one ear at the 50, and Andrew's other ear is lower than my husband's--60 compared to 55.

Andrew's ABR reads like this--500: L55, R55; 1000: L50, right 60; 2000: L50, R60; and 4000: L55; R65. It almost makes a rhombus shape when you plot it out, except that the 4000 right one is a hair lower. It points to loud conversation being able to be heard, but not understood well, without aids. But nothing on his audiogram points to the ability to hear whispers halfway across the room or even close. His speech therapists and hearing therapist had also suspected his loss was more mild for a long time. But I knew it was always at least that since he couldn't hear whispers. Now that he can, and can hear them really well, I can no longer say he has even a mild loss for sure, not across the board anyway. I know it has to be normal at some of these frequencies to do this. The audiologist had told me the wax, if it was really bad, would make his loss even worse. So I am anxious to see what happens once they clean it out--just where he tests. Surely it will be much higher than it is now on this ABR. But maybe only in one ear. I'll keep you guys posted on what we find out.
Click to expand...

a hearing loss in just one, higher frequency is often noise induced hearing loss. If that it the case it would probably be unrelated to your child's loss.

at two he should be able to do some booth testing, even ear specific. When do they test him next?
 
We got his ABR done after his tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy/laryngoscopy, etc. They cleaned the wax out of his ears also, examined them, and did not need to put in any tubes.

The ABR shows much improvement in both ears--actually the worse ear improved a little more than the better, but around 20 dB average improvement.

Here are his new numbers, with the older ABR numbers in parentheses:

Left ear: 500--40 (55); 1000--35 (50); 2000--30 (50); 4000--40 (55)

Right ear: 500--40 (55); 1000--35 (60); 2000--40 (60); 4000--45 (65)


I guess the 30 at the 2000 can explain some of the whispers. But I still think he's performing perhaps a little better than the ABR shows, as his audiologist said was possible, a little better or worse based on the brain factor. But this was a huge gain for a sensorineural only loss. The audiologist who tested him (not our regular one) believes it must be due to his extreme prematurity, as I had thought. She was surprised when I told her the second one was done as late as 4 months corrected though/8 months actual age. She thinks the gain was in the months following that test, and that he won't get any better than this. She was so sure. Although I can see the wisdom in her viewpoint, I also know his hearing has improved noticeably in the past 6 months, without his aids (from 18 months to 2 years corrected age)...he's a lot better with whispers, and in hearing softer sounds from outside our home. I guess we'll see as time goes on.

He hasn't had a booth test since March...he cried during the whole thing, they could only throw a couple of things at him then. But one thing they threw, a clicker test with all the frequencies, got a hit at 25 dB, which surprised the audiologist. But they had to stop the test, and I think she probably thought it was just a fluke at the time. The booth test prior to that, in January, she couldn't get double hits on anything, but what she did get was bad...60 to 70 in the better ear, which the ABR now shows to be 30 to 40. I know it wasn't 60 to 70 then...that was all behavior. In all honesty, I thought we'd see at least one number in the 20s in one of the ears that could explain all he's showing me. But at least they got to see the vast improvement with their own eyes, and know now that I am not imagining things. Maybe when he's tested in a booth again in 6 months, things will go better. If not then, then hopefully the time after that, when he's 3. I've heard that age is usually a little less fearful of medical procedures/tests. We still need to have them reprogram his hearing aids, which they agreed he probably shouldn't wear this way (too powerful). The sad thing is, he probably has worn them for months when they were too powerful... :/
 
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