That would not make sensed
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AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - One Question about stem cells
I don't understand why your speech scores are so low with how good your audiogram is! You seem to think CI is so great but you have much more hearing than Phi4sius and yet Phi4sius scores higher in speech than you?
Implants make sense for those with no residual hearing. I would love to have at least as much residual hearing as Phi4sius who says he's scoring 85% speech! If me and phi4sius had as much hearing as you, C-NICE we would score very nearly 100% speech! I would in fact hear alot of sounds and speech unaided with your hearing, C-NICE! Look at my 2002 audiogram in my blog, I hear with HAs similar to what you hear unaided!
Agreed!
Reasons I am Interested in a CI (When needed)
My reasons are as follows 1. It is known quantity with a proven track record 2. Me and my wife are starting a family soon (I could be deaf by the time my kids enter first grade). 3. I have an angel of a wife and I have put her through so much with my hearing loss(I am the only hearing impaired person she has even known & I do not wish to put her through adjusting to me be totally deaf especially with us trying to raise a child at the same time!!)
My reasons are as follows 1. It is known quantity with a proven track record 2. Me and my wife are starting a family soon (I could be deaf by the time my kids enter first grade). 3. I have an angel of a wife and I have put her through so much with my hearing loss(I am the only hearing impaired person she has even known & I do not wish to put her through adjusting to me be totally deaf especially with us trying to raise a child at the same time!!)
No one knows when youll be deaf but if youll go deaf in 10 years, stem cells may be FDA approved by then. CI won't give you close to the hearing you currently have anyway. Youd hear so much better if you try different HAs like Phi4sius is doing. Compare his audiogram to yours in the above link. Your audiogram is great!
faire_jour
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I agree that you don't get it.
There are plenty of peeople whose audiogram looks good but they can NOT understand speech. My daughter was one of them. Whatever took her hearing caused her to be completely unable to comprehend speech with hearing iads. She now does. Even though her loss was "only" 60 db sloping to around 95db. She had ZERO speech understanding, friday she had 86%. THAT is what CI's can do, even for those who are not profoundly deaf.
faire_jour
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You are flat out wrong. A CI could very well give him speech comprehension which he clearly does not have.
Hearing aids do NOT work for everyone.
sr171soars
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DD1,
As one indicated, you simply don't get it.
Everybody who has a hearing loss is different from the next person with a hearing loss. You just can't use a audiogram as the definitive guide how a person should be able to hear with HAs. Speech is complicated enough to understand if one is missing even one of the critical speech sounds. There are too many variables that an audiogram doesn't address.
Some of those variables are...
1) Age of language exposure in terms of speech (the younger the better and after a certain point...it becomes extremely problematical)
2) Brain adaptability or plasticity
3) Any number of brain disorders that may impact speech comprehension
4) Language ability in general in terms of speech
This list is not conclusive. But it demonstrates that an audiogram alone is just one piece of the puzzle (abeit an important one).
A CI on the other hand, evens the playing field for most people and gives them an opportunity to hear sounds they are missing that a HA couldn't give them. I say this strictly from a speech standpoint as that is what a CI is built for. All the rest is icing on the cake.
Even with that extra a CI provides, some still will not get speech!!!
As one indicated, you simply don't get it.
Everybody who has a hearing loss is different from the next person with a hearing loss. You just can't use a audiogram as the definitive guide how a person should be able to hear with HAs. Speech is complicated enough to understand if one is missing even one of the critical speech sounds. There are too many variables that an audiogram doesn't address.
Some of those variables are...
1) Age of language exposure in terms of speech (the younger the better and after a certain point...it becomes extremely problematical)
2) Brain adaptability or plasticity
3) Any number of brain disorders that may impact speech comprehension
4) Language ability in general in terms of speech
This list is not conclusive. But it demonstrates that an audiogram alone is just one piece of the puzzle (abeit an important one).
A CI on the other hand, evens the playing field for most people and gives them an opportunity to hear sounds they are missing that a HA couldn't give them. I say this strictly from a speech standpoint as that is what a CI is built for. All the rest is icing on the cake.
Even with that extra a CI provides, some still will not get speech!!!
jillio
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Well said.
I would have to agree with sr171soars, minus the first comment. Not everyone hears the same with the same loss. Audiograms are not always indicative of speech understanding. Many other elements come into play that would not allow someone with hearing loss to understand speech.
In the case of someone that needs a CI to understand speech, hearing aids provide no benefit, and they have absolutely nothing in the area of such discrimination - I say go for it. That proper diagnosis is made by the audiologist and other individuals involved with making sure the patient hears at their absolute best.
VamPyroX
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I don't know how those implants work. Hearing is not something everyone automatically understands. It's something we have to get used to.
There's a movie about this guy who was blind his whole life. He finally had surgery that enabled him to see like a normal person. However, he had a problem distinguishing the difference between things such as pictures and real thing... and depth perception. For instance, he could see a picture of an apple and think it was the real thing. He could see a reflection, but not be able to tell if it was a reflection. It was something he would have to work hard on.
I think it's the same with getting cochlear implants. It may sound weird at first, but with lots of help and training... you can get better and improve your listening/hearing skills.
There's a movie about this guy who was blind his whole life. He finally had surgery that enabled him to see like a normal person. However, he had a problem distinguishing the difference between things such as pictures and real thing... and depth perception. For instance, he could see a picture of an apple and think it was the real thing. He could see a reflection, but not be able to tell if it was a reflection. It was something he would have to work hard on.
I think it's the same with getting cochlear implants. It may sound weird at first, but with lots of help and training... you can get better and improve your listening/hearing skills.
somedeafdudefromPNW
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Can you get the name of the movie? I keep hearing about it, but never found out.
I have been learning more about audiograms vs. speech scores. Can you show some examples of decent looking audiograms but unusually poor speech scores? On another note, ive asked several times before if you had ruled out the fact different HAs as well as more powerful HAs plus transposition wouldn't have helped? Were different HAs even tried? From what ive seen and read around, different people respond differently to different HAs. Phi4sius is a great example and he hears with HA comparable to what others hear with CI. So I would not discount the usefullness of HAs. It's a shame really that some people don't put much effort into making HAs work because they could turn out to be great!
On another note, have you read about cochlear dead regions? It appears likley Miss Kat has some dead regions. Studies have shown that amplifying well into a dead region can hurt speech scores and increase distortion. A TEN and PTC test can check for dead regions. I personally would like to be tested for dead regions myself. My dead regions either start at 1200Hz or at 500-600Hz from the piano thud test(inaudible above 1200Hz) or from my HA programming(above 500-600Hz yields no speech improvement)
This won't be known till every HA is tried out. Phi4sius is a shining example of this. Although his loss is severe, he hears comparable to CI after trying different HAs and finding one that works for him. HAs work even for me to a lesser extent since my loss is more profound. I make do very well with lip reading where I can score 80%.
1. My audiologist says one should train their brain to understand speech before the age 35 or youll never be great at speech comphrension. Ive had lots of speech training when I was young.
2. True: Auditory Processing and Understanding Speech
3. True: Auditory Processing in Adults: Beyond the Audiogram Gail M. Whitelaw, Ph.D., The Ohio State University November 2008 Audiology Online
4. English is my main language. I don't do well learning foreign languages as my brain isn't used to it and the way it sounds.
There are more reasons:
5. The quality of HA you have. Different HAs give different results.
6. Proper amplification and use of features. More gains on my HAs boosted my speech scores.
7. How much time you put into training for speech
8. Cochlear dead regions which can't be conclusive based on audiogram alone. Two people can have very similar or identical audiograms but one may have dead region(s) while the other no dead region. See my thread here:
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...articles-identifying-cochlear-dead-spots.html
One guy has a great looking audiogram. Normal hearing at 500Hz and below, mild loss around 1000Hz and severe loss above 1000Hz. Yet his dead zones extend above 1250Hz or so. Transposition definately should be tried.
Not everyone who gets a CI is missing sounds if they would try different HAs and even transposition. If someone has that much hearing(without dead regions) and still scores poor on speech, he will likewise score poor with a CI. The problem may be the brain(auditory processing disorder)
Do you have any ideas on your own why? Do you agree that a big reason has to do with trying different HAs and finding the best HA for you? And if one with as much or more hearing than you scores poorly, would you agree the problem is the brain and that a CI won't help either? How does the CI audiologist know to make a proper diagnosis unless every single element can be ruled out? Do they even make sure a potental CI candidate first trys many different HAs? Do they rule out that the brain itself is why speech scores are low?
faire_jour
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Miss Kat didn't need transposition. Her audiogram showed 30 db across the board until 400 hz and then it went down to 40.
Explain why that gave her literally 0 on her speech testing?
Also, there is no test (that they can do on children, I don't know about adults) that can determine cochlear dead zones. So, what do you do? Just leave them in hearing aids and hope?
Explain why that gave her literally 0 on her speech testing?
Also, there is no test (that they can do on children, I don't know about adults) that can determine cochlear dead zones. So, what do you do? Just leave them in hearing aids and hope?
Did you mean 4000Hz? I remember several months ago you said she was aided to 40-45db. AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Poor aided results above 500Hz
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/66906-audiogram-vs-real-life.html
She scored 20% speech with just HA and 65% with just CI. Still a big improvement. So youve tried different amounts of amplification on her HAs if I understand. Has the maximum amount of amplification been tried? It has been tried for me and my speech improved 20%! Not only that, im hearing so many more other sounds as well! More gains doesn't make things clearer but it does put me further up on the speech banana and therefore I can hear more consonants. At 40db aided, I am missing alot of consonants. At 20db and better, I am missing only the high frequencies but am able to hear most consonants. I read somewhere that at 40db, a person can miss 50% of speech but at 20db miss only 10% of speech.
She scores 20% speech, not 0%. Hearing aided at 30db to 40db isn't enough, it wasn't for me so I don't expect it to be for many others. Phi4sius has a severe hearing loss and when he got more powerful HAs with more amplification, his speech scores shot way up! How many different HAs were tried on Miss Kat? What were the results like?
You could try transposition anyway with different compression ratios. If she has dead zones in the highs, transposition will make a big difference and she will properly hear the highs again.(I remember reading somewhere on your blog that she couldn't hear her squeaky toy with HAs) There's also a piano thud test: http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...hats-highest-frequency-you-properly-hear.html
overthepond
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Transposition don't always work for everyone, It didn't for me.
20% in SOUND BOOTH room so if she were outside it's probably 0% or little as 5% Because of background noise and environmental sounds.
20% in SOUND BOOTH room so if she were outside it's probably 0% or little as 5% Because of background noise and environmental sounds.
Good thing you tried transposition. It works for some, including Jenny. It would work for me if the cutoff was below 1500Hz, say around 750Hz. I don't know what id score in a soundbooth but I can certainly understand alot more than 20% of what my parents say without lipreading. On good days it's like 75% sentences.
faire_jour
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Her latest audiogram with her hearing aids has her hearing at 30, like I said. And no, in theory, 30 should do just fine. She is aided well into speech banana, where she can be.
18 months ago, pre-CI, she scored 0% in the booth. Post CI, with her hearing aid, she got 20%. One week ago, with her CI, she scored 86% with the NuChips. It is a huge improvement.
And don't say it is training. We are seeing the exact same therapist we have since she was 18 months old.
18 months ago, pre-CI, she scored 0% in the booth. Post CI, with her hearing aid, she got 20%. One week ago, with her CI, she scored 86% with the NuChips. It is a huge improvement.
And don't say it is training. We are seeing the exact same therapist we have since she was 18 months old.
(From the web on hearing loss degrees)
26-40 dB Hearing Loss:
Greater listening difficulties than a “plugged-ear” hearing loss.
Child can “hear” but misses fragments of speech leading to misunderstandings.
At 30 dB hearing loss child can miss up to 25-40% of speech signal.
At 40 dB child may miss 50% of classroom discussions.
Often experiences difficulty learning early reading skills such as letter/sound associations