Teachers who are deaf teaching oral-only deaf students?

[shel90]

I am gonna ask this question cuz I am so worried about my future since more and more children are being implanted and put in oral-only programs. Ok, let's say in 5 years all children with CIs are doing good in oral-only programs and there is no need for ASL or sign language in the educational setting and the deaf schools close down due to low enrollement numbers. I hope that this doesnt happen but if it does then I will adjust, but my BIG question is, especially to those ADErs who are parents of CI children in oral only program, do u think teachers who are deaf themselves are qualified to teach in the oral-only programs? I need to know so I can prepare myself if I am gonna be shit out of luck with a teaching job in the future and have to find a different career?

There was a situation in one public school district here in MD where a teacher who was hard of hearing got a job teaching oral deaf students as an interinant teacher. She could read lips and speak well but some parents made a big fuss saying that she didnt have enough auditory skills to meet the children's auditory input. The school defended her of course, but the parents threatened to pull their children out of the program or demand a hearing teacher. Finally the school hired a hearing aide. I am thinking that really sucks if parents do that cuz they are modeling to their own children that deaf people cant teach.

What do u think? Be honest and I am sure this thread can bring up bitter feelings so as long as we continue to be civil with each other, I think it would be a good discussion.

I need to know cuz I want to know if I should prepare myself to go back to school for a different career. I DO NOT want to teach hearing kids unless I become an ASL teacher which is one of the options I am considering. I do not feel comfortable teaching a class full of 20 plus hearing students if I am unable to localize the sounds. I did that before during one student teaching experience for my BA degree and it was awful. I was stressed out daily.

 

[deafdyke]

Ok, let's say in 5 years all children with CIs are doing good in oral-only programs and there is no need for ASL or sign language in the educational setting and the deaf schools close down due to low enrollement numbers.

On the other hand, there ARE parents who want their kids to grow up bilingal. Not all hearing parents are hearie extremists. Plus, I mean its very rare that kids with CI do so well that they don't need Sign etc. A lot of the kids who are "doing well" right now, may find that they do worse as things get harder. Matter of fact, almost all dhh kids have horrible experiances in mainstream high school.
Plus, only a small percentage of those eligable for implantation, have been implanted! I wouldn't worry all that much. In addition, the parents who grew up with ASL as a "norm" (ie they learned about it in Scouts or in school, or may have been exposed to kids who were mainstreamed) are going to be having kids.............and I am pretty sure that will create some faimilies who are OK with Sign.

 

[shel90]

On the other hand, there ARE parents who want their kids to grow up bilingal. Not all hearing parents are hearie extremists. Plus, I mean its very rare that kids with CI do so well that they don't need Sign etc. A lot of the kids who are "doing well" right now, may find that they do worse as things get harder. Matter of fact, almost all dhh kids have horrible experiances in mainstream high school.
Plus, only a small percentage of those eligable for implantation, have been implanted! I wouldn't worry all that much. In addition, the parents who grew up with ASL as a "norm" (ie they learned about it in Scouts or in school, or may have been exposed to kids who were mainstreamed) are going to be having kids.............and I am pretty sure that will create some faimilies who are OK with Sign.

Yea, I hope so cuz there has been soo many meetings with the people higher up on the ladder at my work about solving the enrollment issues and how to prevent the school from shutting down. It is becoming almost an obsession with my coworkers cuz everyone is nervous and then I read several threads about parents placing their children with CIs in oral only programs so I just had to ask. I just started my career and I still have many years of teaching left (maybe 20) before I retire so I am scared cuz I love my job and I dont want to work someplace else where I hate working so much. I have experienced jobs that I hated so much that waking up daily was a torture knowing I have to spend 8 hours later on the day being miserable.

 

[Silentwolfdog]

There are some cases where CI does not work very well. ASL may be necessary for some of students.

But human being evolves all the time. I won't be surprised if deaf can be fixed someday, so will the blind.

The way I see this, the day ASL dies is the day everyone can actually hear normal.We still got a way to go. A long way to go.
There may be a shortage of teachers.

I am not sure who is the best person to talk with about this situation.

It would be weird to know that we don't need deaf teachers anymore...Maybe public school will still need some deaf teachers. Public school will probably adjust so that there's a sense of belong when few deaf teachers will work together in public school, especially in cities.

 

[deafdyke]

Shel, well one thing that the Sign programs really need is a PR (Public Relations) spin. Part of the reason that oral only is so sucessful is that it has really effective PR. Like it uses the "healthy normal" spin to its advantage.
Maybe ASL using schools could really push the fact that your dhh kid could become BILINGAL in both ASL and speech, if they attended an ASL school! Push the fact that ASLers can function free of technology! It's really too bad that there's no research indicating that ASLers tend to have better jobs/employment rates. In Blind ed, Braille hasn't been that popular. But, employment rates have been low. They noticed a couple of years ago, that Braille literate people were the ones getting the jobs. Now they are REALLY pushing Braille! Oh, the irony!
Also, maybe a good idea would be to open the classes to hearing kids who use ASL. Not MR who use a handful of Signs, but more.............kids with apraxia, tracheostomies etc etc.
I read on someone's end of semester presentation poster, ( education class)that kids who go to special schools tend to do better then mainstreamed kids! (gasp!)
You could also push what I like to call "foundation ed" That is encouraging parents to send their kids to your school early on, so they have a solid foundation with teachers who really know how to teach, rather then getting patchworked TOD/general special ed services in the mainstream.
Which brings me to another advantage.......the fact that if special services are needed, they are automaticly built into the school day, rather then the student having to be pulled out of class!

 

[Sasha64]

Shel

I wouldnt worry toooo much. Myself is a Deaf teacher and work in the local deaf school. I have noticed the decreasing number of deaf students on our school roll due to many of our deaf children receiving CI but the irony is that my local deaf school is becoming a dumping ground for the failure of our deaf kids in the mainstream school to be fixed up when it kinda too late cos the damage is done so there always work coming up. For fact I know my future is shaking due to those decreasing numbers but on the other hand we are looking at where the most population of our deaf students are coming from and is building a new school down there and will be called School within a School where the hearing and the deaf will work alongside together so that a plus for me but that wont happen for years. Also there will always be
Deaf children coming as was looking at the history of many things affecting the numbers of children getting deaf and then decreasing then suddenly a booom of them so it quite normal when u look at it.

Maybe if you think of doing something to add to ur career like studying to be a school counsellor??? add new skills to ur teaching degree.

CAn i ask you a question?? ARe u fluent ASL users and not use Oral?? Just want to be clear on what u have to give to the students.

I am both so have a good advantage of being able to work with hearing students but like u said it can be extremely stressful and difficult to try and work out what they want. Maybe have a mixture of CODA and Deaf students would be pretty good to get a proposal going and makes some changes. It not gonna be easy but im sure something will come up for you Shel so dont fret too much but i know we cant predict what will happens in the future.

Hope I helped in a way and feel free to talk to me about this.

 

[VamPyroX]

There are interpreters for deaf teachers as well.

 

[jillio]

It is my personal opinion that the best teacher for a deaf student is a qualified deaf adult. A deaf child needs very much to be able to interact with successful deaf adults in order to have positive role models.

To say that a teacher is not qualified because a child doesn't receive sufficient auditory input fom them is absolutely ridiculas. If the child is doing that well with a CI, then they are receiving auditory input from all other facets. To believe that they are suffering from auditory input deprivation because of one teacher is absurd. And these are the same parents that don't seem to understand that their deaf child with CI is more likely to suffer from sensory deprivation because of their refusal to supply the child with a visual mode of communication increase understanding. I would certainly worry more that these children are learning to sign thatn whether they were suffering from a lack of auditory input from one teacher.

I'm going to end my comment here, because this situation makes me so angry. People who refuse to look at the whole picture make me want to :rl:

 

[Defmusicman]

It is my personal opinion that the best teacher for a deaf student is a qualified deaf adult. A deaf child needs very much to be able to interact with successful deaf adults in order to have positive role models.:rl:

To say that a teacher is not qualified because a child doesn't receive sufficient auditory input fom them is absolutely ridiculas. If the child is doing that well with a CI, then they are receiving auditory input from all other facets. To believe that they are suffering from auditory input deprivation because of one teacher is absurd. And these are the same parents that don't seem to understand that their deaf child with CI is more likely to suffer from sensory deprivation because of their refusal to supply the child with a visual mode of communication increase understanding. I would certainly worry more that these children are learning to sign thatn whether they were suffering from a lack of auditory input from one teacher.

I'm going to end my comment here, because this situation makes me so angry. People who refuse to look at the whole picture make me want to

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why hearing parents with deaf kids would want to put their kids in an oral-only program. It would be far more convenient for the parents to learn ASL than for the kids to waste so much time trying to learn to speak. To do so only puts them so far behind their hearing peers education-wise and the poor kids spend the rest of their lives trying to play "catch-up" The adults have got it ass-backwards. Let the kids learn ASL first and get a running start on their education, then later on in their lives, if they have any residual hearing that can be helped by hearing aids or CI, or whatever, maybe learn speech.

As for deaf teachers in oral-only programs... it's so ridiculous that I'm not even going to go there.

 

[jillio]

To say that a teacher is not qualified because a child doesn't receive sufficient auditory input fom them is absolutely ridiculas. If the child is doing that well with a CI, then they are receiving auditory input from all other facets. To believe that they are suffering from auditory input deprivation because of one teacher is absurd. And these are the same parents that don't seem to understand that their deaf child with CI is more likely to suffer from sensory deprivation because of their refusal to supply the child with a visual mode of communication increase understanding. I would certainly worry more that these children are learning to sign thatn whether they were suffering from a lack of auditory input from one teacher.

I'm going to end my comment here, because this situation makes me so angry. People who refuse to look at the whole picture make me want to

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why hearing parents with deaf kids would want to put their kids in an oral-only program. It would be far more convenient for the parents to learn ASL than for the kids to waste so much time trying to learn to speak. To do so only puts them so far behind their hearing peers education-wise and the poor kids spend the rest of their lives trying to play "catch-up" The adults have got it ass-backwards. Let the kids learn ASL first and get a running start on their education, then later on in their lives, if they have any residual hearing that can be helped by hearing aids or CI, or whatever, maybe learn speech.

As for deaf teachers in oral-only programs... it's so ridiculous that I'm not even going to go there.

Thank you! You were able to articulate what my anger prevented me from saying!

 

[Defmusicman]

Glad to be of service, jillio. I don't claim to be a mind reader but I had a feeling that that's what you were thinking. It's a real shame that we have many teachers that work with the deaf in oral-only programs and are yet unaware that the key to unlocking the mysteries of the world for any kid is literally in their hands. Some people just can't see the forest for the trees, huh? How's your child doing in school, by the way?

 

[kayla123]

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why hearing parents with deaf kids would want to put their kids in an oral-only program. It would be far more convenient for the parents to learn ASL than for the kids to waste so much time trying to learn to speak.

I don't try to do whatever is convenient for me to help my child. I do whatever it takes to help her. There is nothing wrong with learning to speak, it is a very usefull tool for a child. There are time lines that come along with speech, so waiting until they are older is not an option if you want your child to develop good oral skills. I have not seen any parents on this site who are refusing to teach their child sign, including myself. Shel, i don't think you need to worry about your job, CI don't work for everybody as you've expierenced already and not everybody is a candidate either. I remember the ENT telling me that if my daughters cochlea was the slightest bit more malformed than it was, she would not have been able to receive one. I am a hearing parent and as far as i'm concerned as long as you can give my child a good education, that's all that matters.

 

[BearBeauty]

To say that a teacher is not qualified because a child doesn't receive sufficient auditory input fom them is absolutely ridiculas. If the child is doing that well with a CI, then they are receiving auditory input from all other facets. To believe that they are suffering from auditory input deprivation because of one teacher is absurd. And these are the same parents that don't seem to understand that their deaf child with CI is more likely to suffer from sensory deprivation because of their refusal to supply the child with a visual mode of communication increase understanding. I would certainly worry more that these children are learning to sign thatn whether they were suffering from a lack of auditory input from one teacher.

I'm going to end my comment here, because this situation makes me so angry. People who refuse to look at the whole picture make me want to

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why hearing parents with deaf kids would want to put their kids in an oral-only program. It would be far more convenient for the parents to learn ASL than for the kids to waste so much time trying to learn to speak. To do so only puts them so far behind their hearing peers education-wise and the poor kids spend the rest of their lives trying to play "catch-up" The adults have got it ass-backwards. Let the kids learn ASL first and get a running start on their education, then later on in their lives, if they have any residual hearing that can be helped by hearing aids or CI, or whatever, maybe learn speech.

As for deaf teachers in oral-only programs... it's so ridiculous that I'm not even going to go there.

I take offense.. I am a deaf woman that was raised mainly oral-only..and learned signs as I went along.. i rarely used ASL til high school.. And I was never playing "catch up" with my peers...
While I can understand your point of view... you should consider that there were those of us who were raised oral-only who actually did good! I speak, I lipread, and I sign. And I don't see anything wrong with how I was raised...

 

[deafdyke]

There are time lines that come along with speech, so waiting until they are older is not an option if you want your child to develop good oral skills. I have not seen any parents on this site who are refusing to teach their child sign, including myself.

I can see both sides.
I have to say Kayla123, that I think Shel is mostly venting about the oral language failures that she sees in her job. Complete and total oral failure is very rare, but it's almost frustrating to deal with kids who have a baby/toddler language level, when they are older. It's frustrating knowing that they could have had a very sophiscated language, if they'd been exposed to both ASL and speech.
I mean the language timelines go along with ASL as well!
Why can't auditory verbal and auditory oral people promote speech skills WITHOUT prohibiting Sign? I don't quite get the reasoning behind that. I mean it is kinda unfair to TC programs, for them to serve as "dumping grounds" for the oral failures.
We understand that speech needs to be started ASAP. Very few people are advocating waiting to learn to speak and hear til later. We're just wondering why a lot of oral programs are so hostile to Sign as a tool?
Yes, many parents are openminded and pro-full toolbox......but a lot of the oral programs themselves are very hostile to Sign.....like they see it as a "special needs" methodology /crutch, rather then as a legimiate USEFUL tool!
Hey, look at most deaf schools..........most deaf schools do offer speech therapy! Hell...........virtually all Deaf schools are TC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jillio]

Glad to be of service, jillio. I don't claim to be a mind reader but I had a feeling that that's what you were thinking. It's a real shame that we have many teachers that work with the deaf in oral-only programs and are yet unaware that the key to unlocking the mysteries of the world for any kid is literally in their hands. Some people just can't see the forest for the trees, huh? How's your child doing in school, by the way?

Sophomore in college, had a 3.1 for fall quarter, winter quarter grades haven't come out yet. Thanks for asking!

 

[shel90]

I take offense.. I am a deaf woman that was raised mainly oral-only..and learned signs as I went along.. i rarely used ASL til high school.. And I was never playing "catch up" with my peers...
While I can understand your point of view... you should consider that there were those of us who were raised oral-only who actually did good! I speak, I lipread, and I sign. And I don't see anything wrong with how I was raised...

But u had sign language growing up..I had NO sign language exposure at all until I took ASL classes at the age of 28. I did ok academically but I think I would have done a lot better if I had a visual language too.

I was always the last one to know what was happening in my class, always getting into trouble for not knowing what was discussed in class (getting accused of not paying attention), and being left out 90% of the time during social times. For me it was no fun. Sure I have some good memories but the bad ones outrank the good ones. Maybe it is cuz of my personality..I am the kind of person who wants to participate fully but since I couldnt catch everything that was being discussed in class or out of class, it was nearly impossible for me to participate fully. Many people got annoyed with me asking them "What did he say or what did she say or can u say that again." Finally, they started saying "Oh nothing.. oh, we will tell u later..oh, we talked about a dog." After so many years of dealing with that, I got fed up and now I prefer to be in a signing environment. I still interact with hearing people (that do not sign at all) but socialize with them, I rarely do anymore. Just dont have the energy or motivation to work hard trying to read anyone's lips at the same time.

Maybe if I didnt have a people personality, I probably would be happier being left out but I was born with a people and a very curious personality. It was too frustrating not getting those needs met.

 

[shel90]

I can see both sides.
I have to say Kayla123, that I think Shel is mostly venting about the oral language failures that she sees in her job. Complete and total oral failure is very rare, but it's almost frustrating to deal with kids who have a baby/toddler language level, when they are older. It's frustrating knowing that they could have had a very sophiscated language, if they'd been exposed to both ASL and speech.
I mean the language timelines go along with ASL as well!
Why can't auditory verbal and auditory oral people promote speech skills WITHOUT prohibiting Sign? I don't quite get the reasoning behind that. I mean it is kinda unfair to TC programs, for them to serve as "dumping grounds" for the oral failures.
We understand that speech needs to be started ASAP. Very few people are advocating waiting to learn to speak and hear til later. We're just wondering why a lot of oral programs are so hostile to Sign as a tool?
Yes, many parents are openminded and pro-full toolbox......but a lot of the oral programs themselves are very hostile to Sign.....like they see it as a "special needs" methodology /crutch, rather then as a legimiate USEFUL tool!
Hey, look at most deaf schools..........most deaf schools do offer speech therapy! Hell...........virtually all Deaf schools are TC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, my school is incorporating spoken English in some of the lessons to meet the children with auditory needs. We work hard to meet every individual child's needs...but the oral-only programs really do not. They just seem to clump all deaf children into one person which are usually the oral superstars, like me, for example. :sure:

 

[BearBeauty]

But u had sign language growing up..I had NO sign language exposure at all until I took ASL classes at the age of 28. I did ok academically but I think I would have done a lot better if I had a visual language too.

I was always the last one to know what was happening in my class, always getting into trouble for not knowing what was discussed in class (getting accused of not paying attention), and being left out 90% of the time during social times. For me it was no fun. Sure I have some good memories but the bad ones outrank the good ones. Maybe it is cuz of my personality..I am the kind of person who wants to participate fully but since I couldnt catch everything that was being discussed in class or out of class, it was nearly impossible for me to participate fully. Many people got annoyed with me asking them "What did he say or what did she say or can u say that again." Finally, they started saying "Oh nothing.. oh, we will tell u later..oh, we talked about a dog." After so many years of dealing with that, I got fed up and now I prefer to be in a signing environment. I still interact with hearing people (that do not sign at all) but socialize with them, I rarely do anymore. Just dont have the energy or motivation to work hard trying to read anyone's lips at the same time.

Maybe if I didnt have a people personality, I probably would be happier being left out but I was born with a people and a very curious personality. It was too frustrating not getting those needs met.

Shel.. yah I was lucky to have some ASL,, but I was so shy growing up.. I rarely used it unless it was to answer a question.. and i needed it in high school with all the changes the idiotic school made.

I can understand being fed up with all the asking and getting "oh nevermind, We'll tell you later" ect ect. I get fed up with it myself.. Heck i've had a few times my boyfriend has said it to me and I would stop talking to him... until he realized why i wasn't talking to him... gotta love that groveling..

Anyway.. while I like a signing enviroment.. In general i'm better with small groups of people cuz i get claustophobic *hmm is that spelled right?*
It's a family trait... we get very panicky around large groups.. Heck.. I hated school because of that trait..

 

[Defmusicman]

I was referring to children that are profoundly deaf and have no concept of sound at an early age. I believe that putting them in an oral-only program at an early age puts them at a disadvantage. It is critical that the development of reading, writing and language skills in those early formative years be done by the most effective method that will work for that kid. I believe that ASL or sign language is the most effective method for teaching profoundly deaf kids. When they have mastered the basics of reading and writing and are able to express themselves well through sign, then speech can be incorporated into the daily learning routine. A speech/sign combination can be very effective but the foundation has to be laid first.

 

[jillio]

I was referring to children that are profoundly deaf and have no concept of sound at an early age. I believe that putting them in an oral-only program at an early age puts them at a disadvantage. It is critical that the development of reading, writing and language skills in those early formative years be done by the most effective method that will work for that kid. I believe that ASL or sign language is the most effective method for teaching profoundly deaf kids. When they have mastered the basics of reading and writing and are able to express themselves well through sign, then speech can be incorporated into the daily learning routine. A speech/sign combination can be very effective but the foundation has to be laid first.