Stuttering, mumbling, shouting signs...

[society's_child]

... I don't believe this question was addressed, so here goes: I know when speaking, each person has a pattern of speech that distinguishes them from the next person. For example, I have a freind who tends to speak quicky but slows down her pronunciation on some of the words she says. It's quite funny, actually. I want to know if there is a way a person can mumble through sign language, or "shout". Maybe languid, half done signs can be considered mumbling? I don't know how better to phrase it. Does anyone here have the faintest idea of what the heck I'm talking about?

 

[Interpretrator]

Oh definitely. Some people call it "lazy sign," where signs are done in sort of a sluggish manner that makes it hard to distinguish the handshape, movement, etc. We've had students at the places where I work whom almost none of the interpreters, and few of the other deaf students, could understand because they signed this way. In the cases I'm thinking of it was totally analogous to the way hearing teenagers mumble. (Meaning there was no mental or physical impairment...it was just their style!)

 

[society's_child]

Oh definitely. Some people call it "lazy sign," where signs are done in sort of a sluggish manner that makes it hard to distinguish the handshape, movement, etc. We've had students at the places where I work whom almost none of the interpreters, and few of the other deaf students, could understand because they signed this way. In the cases I'm thinking of it was totally analogous to the way hearing teenagers mumble. (Meaning there was no mental or physical impairment...it was just their style!)

How interesting! Gotta make sure I "pronounce" my words correctly. Thanks.

 

[jillio]

Oh definitely. Some people call it "lazy sign," where signs are done in sort of a sluggish manner that makes it hard to distinguish the handshape, movement, etc. We've had students at the places where I work whom almost none of the interpreters, and few of the other deaf students, could understand because they signed this way. In the cases I'm thinking of it was totally analogous to the way hearing teenagers mumble. (Meaning there was no mental or physical impairment...it was just their style!)

Agreed! And if you don't think you can shout in sign, watch any frustrated parent of a deaf kid say, "NO, NO, NO!" Two handed with force!

 

[robbielyn]

yeah. It's deaf normal conversation. Just like in english we will cut off words. For example, I'm 'playin' a game. Im gonna vs I am going to (considered proper english.) If you want crisp clear signs (considered proper ASL) that is used in interpreting or at least it should be. But if you are just having a regular conversation between two people you will see that alot. And you will learn it believe me. You won't learn it in class, you will learn the correct way but with the deaf students in the class or at deaf dinners etc you will learn asl. I think that it so cool to learn the way deaf people really sign as opposed to the "proper way. Although I want to learn both and obviously it is easier to learn the proper when you are first learning. Robbielyn

 

[Interpretrator]

Yeah, I was going to say something about how if you "pronounce" your signs too carefully everyone will think you're an interpreter.

I'm sure even in casual conversation I'm a little too "proper" with my signing but then again I speak like that as well; I just like to be clear. I try a lot harder when interpreting than when chatting, though.

 

[SxyPorkie]

... I don't believe this question was addressed, so here goes: I know when speaking, each person has a pattern of speech that distinguishes them from the next person. For example, I have a freind who tends to speak quicky but slows down her pronunciation on some of the words she says. It's quite funny, actually. I want to know if there is a way a person can mumble through sign language, or "shout". Maybe languid, half done signs can be considered mumbling? I don't know how better to phrase it. Does anyone here have the faintest idea of what the heck I'm talking about?

Yeah.. One of my oldest friend mumbles in sign langauges... i realized she was a stutter in sign langauge..

At first i had trouble understanding her sign langauge... when i realized she was stuttering... so i trained myself into understanding her.. later on.. i understand her completely... It was strange... she cannot help it... she is that way..

 

[deafskeptic]

Yeah.. One of my oldest friend mumbles in sign langauges... i realized she was a stutter in sign langauge..

At first i had trouble understanding her sign langauge... when i realized she was stuttering... so i trained myself into understanding her.. later on.. i understand her completely... It was strange... she cannot help it... she is that way..

I remember when I mentioned how my Dad has a bad stutter which is why he rarely talks and my ASL Deaf friend told me how some deaf stutter in ASL. Quite interesting.

 

[dracotkk]

Since I am still very new to sign language, how does one stutter in asl?

 

[Brian]

Not long ago while riding the subways in downtown Atlanta, I ran into a deaf man who happened to be in the same subway car I was in. After speaking to him, I realised he was stuttering in signs which was somewhat annoying but I was very patient with him. I think this was my very first experience with one stutter-signing.

I believe I mumble-sign a lot, especially with ASL signers. I will have to ask a deaf friend if I mumble-sign.

 

[Interpretrator]

It's interesting, I wonder whether sign stutterers have linguistic or motor problems.

There's been a lot of work (largely by Bellugi) showing that the same part of the brain is activated for both signed and spoken languages. There was a very interesting study with deaf (or maybe signing) stroke victims, and it showed that those who had impairment in the part of the brain that controls motor functions, and thus had problems with motor functions, still signed smoothly and fluently. In other words, the signer was activating the language area of the brain and not the motor function area of the brain. Her work has gone a long way towards proving scientifically that ASL is in fact a language and not just "a bunch of movements."

Anyway, so I'm curious if people who stutter in sign language would also stutter in spoken language, or if they have some kind of physical impairment (such as Parkinson's) that keeps them from signing smoothly. I'm sure it's different for different people though.

 

[ismi]

Anyway, so I'm curious if people who stutter in sign language would also stutter in spoken language, or if they have some kind of physical impairment (such as Parkinson's) that keeps them from signing smoothly. I'm sure it's different for different people though.

Spoken stuttering can be either linguistic or physiological - linguistic stuttering is usually treated with speech therapy (if it needs to be treated at all - often it doesn't), but very serious cases can now be treated with a hearing aid-like device that echoes the speaker's voice back to them with a small (on the order of milliseconds, I think) delay that allows the brain to process it as self-produced speech. Stuttering can also be physiological - usually in the form of neuromuscular disorders, but I think various disorders involving the throat and larynx can also cause stuttering.

Probably both physiological and language problems can cause stuttering in sign as well; it would be interesting to see if you could distinguish one from the other through observation of the effects on the way a given person signs.

 

[Interpretrator]

it would be interesting to see if you could distinguish one from the other through observation of the effects on the way a given person signs.

I think they do it with brain imaging, probably fMRI (functional MRI). Pretty amazing.

 

[ismi]

I think they do it with brain imaging, probably fMRI (functional MRI). Pretty amazing.

Right - but I wonder if the two could be distinguished "with the naked eye". Perhaps certain things - morphemes or emotional load or something - trigger stuttering whereas physiological causes are more randomized ... or something like that.

 

[jillio]

Spoken stuttering can be either linguistic or physiological - linguistic stuttering is usually treated with speech therapy (if it needs to be treated at all - often it doesn't), but very serious cases can now be treated with a hearing aid-like device that echoes the speaker's voice back to them with a small (on the order of milliseconds, I think) delay that allows the brain to process it as self-produced speech. Stuttering can also be physiological - usually in the form of neuromuscular disorders, but I think various disorders involving the throat and larynx can also cause stuttering.

Probably both physiological and language problems can cause stuttering in sign as well; it would be interesting to see if you could distinguish one from the other through observation of the effects on the way a given person signs.

Actually, stuttering is not a problem with speech. It is a cognitive disorder that affects the processing and fluency of expressive language--any language, be it auditory/verbal or visual/manual. So, yes, people can stutter in sign.

 

[ismi]

Actually, stuttering is not a problem with speech. It is a cognitive disorder that affects the processing and fluency of expressive language--any language, be it auditory/verbal or visual/manual. So, yes, people can stutter in sign.

Absolutely. But what we observe as stuttering in the colloquial sense (whether one would classify it clinically as stuttering - i.e., as a symptom - I don't know) in spoken languages can be either a cognitive issue or an issue with the physiological methods of speech production. I was drawing a parallel between that and the possibility that stuttering or stuttering-like symptoms in sign could be caused by either a processing disorder or a physiological production problem (some cases being one, and some cases being the other).

So, to draw an analogy, I don't have arthritis, but I have "arthritis-like symptoms". Often, I or others will simply call it arthritis because the symptoms involved are relatively well understood; but there is more than one potential cause of these symptoms, including the bone grinding that constitutes "true" arthritis.