Strategy for Deaf (and hearing) to reduce audism and oralism

naisho

naisho

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I guess I am gonna get some flak for this. I had this thought recently in the past week for how Deaf can destroy audism. The reason why it exists is pretty simple. It's because of money that audism and pro-oral alike continues to exist. Think of the process, who is funding audiology clinics, how do audis make money to survive?

Who funds majors in college that are on speech/language pathology, ear clinics and medical related?

Phonak, Oticon, Siemens, Starkey, Cochlear™, Cochlear America, etc.. If you guys own any of these hearing-related products, chances are you have or someone else has funded for these companies to continue doing what they are doing. These companies are the same ones giving scholarships, grant money to college students to continue research, development into oral-benefiting products, thus continuing the pro-oral route in a cycle.

If you wanna put a stop to this, how do you counter it? Well, unless you have money, you can only wait. Oralist Money™ pays for audis to keep promoting the latest HA, CI, such products. Oralist Money™ pays for college tuition for hearing students to major and continue working for them.

Pro-ASL people should start something like a ASL scholarship fund, give them to people taking ASL in college. Donate your money to a pro-ASL cause instead of letting the Oralists continue letting their money talk. Until then, their oralist money is what gives audi's homes, food to eat, a car to drive. If it were pro-ASL money, you could be pretty sure that the audi wouldn't be promoting hearing products to people going to their clinics - they'd be more accepting of talking about Sign Language.

Secondly, it's not about making more deaf kids. Deaf kids will continue to come when they come. What you need is more HEARING children.
We need more HEARING kids of deaf parents to make the change because CODAs are what changes the hearing population's misconception about deaf culture and families.
 
what made you think about it all of a sudden? reducing audism/oralism would be nice but how? what does money do with this? maybe i miss your point.
 
I make it simpler for you... This is how I understand this:

I am thinking people go to the audi when they notice they have a deafness.
Audi will let them know to buy HA, or tell them to get a CI if severe deafness, lots of Deafies don't like that the oralist teachers, audis, doctors, SLP, medical community say to get surgery and CI, right?

So the question is how to stop this. Fight against all the hearing people for pro-oral doesn't work fast, doesn't work well, you may have seen it before.

Better target the people who are promoting pro-oral. That's the doctors, audi, SLP, etc.
But how to take them down? How to make them stop offering decision for oralism and ci surgery?

Get them while they're young. They learn about it early when they are in college. That's how the students become audiologists, doctors, oralism teachers, so on.

Starkey scholarship
Cochlear scholarship
Phonak scholarship
Scholarship for UH program requirements and mission:
University of Hartford / CREC Soundbridge a Program for Hearing Impaired Children
Deaf Education, Graduate Program

A partnership between the University of Hartford and the CREC-Soundbridge Program for Hearing Impaired Children, a leading public auditory-oral/auditory-verbal program serving over 500 hearing-impaired children in the State of Connecticut from birth through high school and in the mainstream setting. This intensive graduate program is offered in a one-year, three semester model leading to a Master of Education, MED, in Aural Habilitation and Education of Hearing Impaired Children. We prepare beginning professionals with the foundational knowledge needed to promote spoken language development with hearing impaired children through audition using cochlear implants, hearing aids and FM systems in collaboration with audiologists. There is an emphasis on early childhood habilitation and education for hearing impaired children and their families. Initial teacher certification required for acceptance. Substantial scholarships are available. Detailed information is available on the Deaf Education Program Web site. Founded 2007.
Click to expand...
So many, I looked up many sites about scholarships for people who wanna do deaf related studies.

now you see all the hearing aid, CI companies are giving $$ to students to learn more about their majors related to fix deafness, but you rarely see anyone giving money to ASL students or students who wanna become pro-ASL related careers. If companies like Sorenson, purple offered a scholarship or donated money for ASL cause to these audi, it would be a pro-ASL move.

Because they get the fund for their program, they continue to get the money from the oralists to learn their ideas.. Which is why what I said about audiologists, it's sad, they have to make money and the only way they can make money is to promote oralists because those HA/CI companies pay them some of their money.. PFH probably knows more about this last part than I do.

That's about it, I could be wrong in the approach of my thinking, but something tells me it's not far from the truth..
 
I have a problem with the concept as well.

To answer your question, money is only a small part of it. He's right in one sense, but a lot of deafies wear HAs, so I don't see how that will help eradicate the problem of audism/oralism. Wearing HAs are a personal choice and a lot of deafies choose to do so. In order for his theory to work, every deafie would have to be voice off and not use devices. Some do choose to do this. But, I honestly don't see every deafie choosing to do this.

As for his point regarding CODAs, he is probably right. The CODA is in a very unque position to educate the general public.

However, what I also think needs to happen is both the deaf and the hearing has to be WILLING to come together and listen to one another. All the hostility towards the hearing world, while justified, doesn't help to solve a thing. It just further divides the two worlds. All it takes is an act of understanding to bridge this gap. Many deaf are bitter. Anger and bitterness will get you absolutely nowhere in dealing with the problem at hand.
 
Nooooo. I wanna study to be an audiologist. I need oral-ism to continue so I can get a payday from them suckers who got suckered into the medical community

(btw i am actually applying for those scholarships lol)
 
I think it is just the opposite. These companies did not create audism. They survive because audism was already present and influencing decisions regarding hearing loss. While they certainly do make money off of people's audist beliefs, they only exist because those audist beliefs demand that they exist. They didn't create it, they just exploit it.

Audism existed before all the hearing aid companies and CI manufacturers. It would continue to exist without any of them. Its face would just look a bit different.
 
That is why ASL supporters need to advocate ASL-based information and beneficial researches without put oralism and/or ABELL organizations down, and no mention of Deaf politics...

Oralism supporters is already going to ahead of ASL advocaters...

Need do something about that...
 
bbaseballboy123 said:
Nooooo. I wanna study to be an audiologist. I need oral-ism to continue so I can get a payday from them suckers who got suckered into the medical community

(btw i am actually applying for those scholarships lol)
Click to expand...

No, I don't think Nashio suggests to not support oralism or stop them. Oralism can stay as much as longer... but, not ASL... ASL signers are already getting fewer and fewer.
 
Buffalo said:
I think it is because of the question I asked TheWriteAlex in http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/95818-deaf-not-different-vista.html#post1947370 where TheWriteAlex said that the answer is thru media. I am guessing Nashio is thinking up another answer to my question.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had it thought a few days ago and wrote some in notepad. When you guys talked about it I thought about it more.

KarissaMann05 said:
That is why ASL supporters need to advocate ASL-based information and beneficial researches without put oralism and/or ABELL organizations down, and no mention of Deaf politics...

Oralism supporters is already going to ahead of ASL advocaters...

Need do something about that...
Click to expand...

See, that is the thought I had about it. It's the education side that I am interested in.
Who is making all the research documents in education about deafness? The PhD, PhD-candidate and MS students research about the deafness, but really, who is funding the students and professor's research study about deafness?

Other than the government, you can see that the hearing companies grant the money, the same ones that are interested in benefits of bilateral HA or bilateral CI. So their research focus on benefits to CI, HA and oral route.. Not as much research about benefits to ASL or sign languages, the project is funded by the government or the university pocket money.
So outside of school, the education on benefits of ASL are left to people who understand deeper about it and write it books like Harlan Lane.. But Harlan has no support of the HA/CI companies at all for his research, he's doing it all on his own...
 
KarissaMann05 said:
No, I don't think Nashio suggests to not support oralism or stop them. Oralism can stay as much as longer... but, not ASL... ASL signers are already getting fewer and fewer.
Click to expand...

Really? I guess I disagree with the bolded. I run into more and more people everyday that know at least some basic sign. I could not have said that 10 years ago. Even my SO's ASL classes are OVER-FULL with ASL students.
 
I have a couple of ideas. Will put them down in this thread soon enough

But one of them, Naisho, is Facundoelement.com..

lemme know what you think
 
AlleyCat said:
Really? I guess I disagree with the bolded. I run into more and more people everyday that know at least some basic sign. I could not have said that 10 years ago. Even my SO's ASL classes are OVER-FULL with ASL students.
Click to expand...

My ASL teacher's classes are full as well. Along with everybody under my major who HAS to take it (and were the only ones before today who could take it without asking a specific person), there are Speech-language pathology majors and theatre teaching majors, and even a guy studying to be a biologist.
 
naisho said:
I guess I am gonna get some flak for this. I had this thought recently in the past week for how Deaf can destroy audism. The reason why it exists is pretty simple. It's because of money that audism and pro-oral alike continues to exist. Think of the process, who is funding audiology clinics, how do audis make money to survive?

Who funds majors in college that are on speech/language pathology, ear clinics and medical related?

Phonak, Oticon, Siemens, Starkey, Cochlear™, Cochlear America, etc.. If you guys own any of these hearing-related products, chances are you have or someone else has funded for these companies to continue doing what they are doing. These companies are the same ones giving scholarships, grant money to college students to continue research, development into oral-benefiting products, thus continuing the pro-oral route in a cycle.

If you wanna put a stop to this, how do you counter it? Well, unless you have money, you can only wait. Oralist Money™ pays for audis to keep promoting the latest HA, CI, such products. Oralist Money™ pays for college tuition for hearing students to major and continue working for them.

Pro-ASL people should start something like a ASL scholarship fund, give them to people taking ASL in college. Donate your money to a pro-ASL cause instead of letting the Oralists continue letting their money talk. Until then, their oralist money is what gives audi's homes, food to eat, a car to drive. If it were pro-ASL money, you could be pretty sure that the audi wouldn't be promoting hearing products to people going to their clinics - they'd be more accepting of talking about Sign Language.

Secondly, it's not about making more deaf kids. Deaf kids will continue to come when they come. What you need is more HEARING children.
We need more HEARING kids of deaf parents to make the change because CODAs are what changes the hearing population's misconception about deaf culture and families.
Click to expand...

Money? That is the problem. Many of the deaf people are on limit income or are in low-paying jobs. I feel that it is the case of David versus Goliath. We will just have to find Goliath's weakest spot and go for it.

I can see why the media could be the way as it is cheap to make online. But how does one put this under many people's nose?

The sign language is getting popular because of Baby Signs and parents want to be able to communicate with their babies to lessen the communication problems and increase the babies' IQ.
 
My daughter's friend did finger spelling it when she asked for something. my daughter did not teach her that. She's only 10 yrs old, same as my daughter's. I can image how perfect to start with young hearing kids to have more exposed with ASL.
I did bump into young adult gals who knows ASL too. There are too many CODAs who have been trying to get together for coda events, and KODAs for several years. i do not see anything about supporting the idea of raising funds for ASL yet. I know that hearing kids who have deaf parents in their times may have different experiences of approaching with hearing people who never saw Deaf people who signs before that the hearing kids may have more time to explains to them than what my kids have been through. I do not know for sure. My kids told me that most of their friends are somehow familiar with deaf people but have not have really personally assoicate with them until they metme. I think it is kind of beginning for my kids' ages groups may help for ASL raising funds. BUT if they support ASL then sure. The problem kids have also been exposing with lots of kids who have CIs. That is more difficult. Thats why I said HOW? Look like it is my responsitiy of exposing my kids in a positive views on ASL and spreading out to other kids. So it is up to deaf parents or deaf people who wants to support ASL then expose them in a postive views on ASL.


naisho, I have been, so there and see but still, HOW? you said, start with CODAs yes nice but CODAS do have two sides of views on CI and ASLtoo. =?
 
naisho said:
Yeah, I had it thought a few days ago and wrote some in notepad. When you guys talked about it I thought about it more.



See, that is the thought I had about it. It's the education side that I am interested in.
Who is making all the research documents in education about deafness? The PhD, PhD-candidate and MS students research about the deafness, but really, who is funding the students and professor's research study about deafness?

Other than the government, you can see that the hearing companies grant the money, the same ones that are interested in benefits of bilateral HA or bilateral CI. So their research focus on benefits to CI, HA and oral route.. Not as much research about benefits to ASL or sign languages, the project is funded by the government or the university pocket money.
So outside of school, the education on benefits of ASL are left to people who understand deeper about it and write it books like Harlan Lane.. But Harlan has no support of the HA/CI companies at all for his research, he's doing it all on his own...
Click to expand...

Who is funding the educational research? Usually the university involved and the federal Dept. of Education.

The funding for research coming from HA companies and CI companies goes to CI research and oral language research generally.

Harlan Lane could gets grants for research, as well. Just not through the CI companies. But writing a book based on a lit review is an individual literary project, not a research project.

Mark Marshark, et al has several books on the market regarding Deaf Ed, with a new one due out shortly. I have pre-ordered it through Amazon. His research and published articles are ongoing. His articles are published in journals that any professional teaching any deaf child should be subscribing to.
 
Frisky Feline said:
My daughter's friend did finger spelling it when she asked for something. my daughter did not teach her that. She's only 10 yrs old, same as my daughter's. I can image how perfect to start with young hearing kids to have more exposed with ASL.
I did bump into young adult gals who knows ASL too. There are too many CODAs who have been trying to get together for coda events, and KODAs for several years. i do not see anything about supporting the idea of raising funds for ASL yet. I know that hearing kids who have deaf parents in their times may have different experiences of approaching with hearing people who never saw Deaf people who signs before that the hearing kids may have more time to explains to them than what my kids have been through. I do not know for sure. My kids told me that most of their friends are somehow familiar with deaf people but have not have really personally assoicate with them until they metme. I think it is kind of beginning for my kids' ages groups may help for ASL raising funds. BUT if they support ASL then sure. The problem kids have also been exposing with lots of kids who have CIs. That is more difficult. Thats why I said HOW? Look like it is my responsitiy of exposing my kids in a positive views on ASL and spreading out to other kids. So it is up to deaf parents or deaf people who wants to support ASL then expose them in a postive views on ASL.


naisho, I have been, so there and see but still, HOW? you said, start with CODAs yes nice but CODAS do have two sides of views on CI and ASLtoo. =?
Click to expand...

And I don't see the need to start with CODAs. The Deaf population is perfectly capable of speaking out on these issues. In fact, blogs, etc. are becoming more and more popular.

Where we need our entrance is inside the medical establishment...eg audis and ENTs and CI surgeons, that are only presenting the medical, pathological view. They create the demand for CI by effectively advertising for it and refusal to present other information that is even more useful.
 
jillio said:
Who is funding the educational research? Usually the university involved and the federal Dept. of Education.

The funding for research coming from HA companies and CI companies goes to CI research and oral language research generally.

Harlan Lane could gets grants for research, as well. Just not through the CI companies. But writing a book based on a lit review is an individual literary project, not a research project.

Mark Marshark, et al has several books on the market regarding Deaf Ed, with a new one due out shortly. I have pre-ordered it through Amazon. His research and published articles are ongoing. His articles are published in journals that any professional teaching any deaf child should be subscribing to.
Click to expand...

That is precisely what I have been saying all along since this thread existed! :) Glad you agree with what I'm saying regarding education.

Oralism is continually funded by HA/CI Companies (and government and the university).
SL likely doesn't have a third party donor, they have to rely on the university and the government.
People like Harlan, who is now tenured, is taking pocket money to write about his journey.
Cochlear, has funds to write and release their findings without going through as much trouble with funding.

So I often see AD wondering where are the research comparing information between CI and SL, there is a lot of information supported for HA/CI, but you don't see much research on benefits of SL, it's usually done through news, blogs, and opinion. It's slow in education precisely because it's funded by taxpayer or university money. They may not have as quick as an incentive to get research going because they have a drawback on funding source.

Some ADers continaully wonder in some topics "what if they compared a SL child to a CI child in this area?" Well, there is slow or no research on it because the funding isn't there!
 
When society can fund audi's from a reputable pro-sign viewpoint, they may be more appreciative and consider offering sign language as an alternative option for new patients, parents who come to their office.

When society can fund or provide scholarships to these new students learning about medical benefits of deafness - future doctors, SLP, ST, Audiologists, that isn't from a pro-hearing viewpoint, in turn these students when they come out of the field, they can be more accepting of advising sign language as a choice.

But really, I'm not actually focusing directly on audism, despite the wording of my thread. To me I am seeing more about addressing the oralism issue first, when oralism is reduced, in turn may reduce the audist viewpoint.

When the older generation of audists, audiologists, medical professors have passed away, the new generation of students are taking over their spots. Do we want them to continually support oral choices or realize SL is another alternative?

To get them to stop choosing oral methods, it comes with intervention. That intervention should probably happen when they are learning in college.

HA/CI companies have the edge right now by providing them with scholarships. There is nothing being offered from the SL side. I think there were scholarships for interpreters, but I am not sure how viable it is, if someone could input on that.

About CODAs, I may not have fully thought thought of their impact. I did not consider there are CODA kids who elect to go with oral or CI route, it makes me wonder if it's really a problem or if it is something more to think about...
 
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