So...what you think about the health care bill?

[Steel X]

They have passed the health care bill last night and I thought it was good news but at the same time...bad news due to the economy and other things.

Your opinons?

 

[Jdtruly]

Lost opportunity, broken promises

They have passed the health care bill last night and I thought it was good news but at the same time...bad news due to the economy and other things.

Your opinons?

If congress worked as intended we could have true improvement but this bill is simply a government takeover of a system already so messed up by government "fixes" that hope for improvement is fading out.

We will be unlikely to be able to keep our present plans or doctors, we'll all be paying for illegal aliens, abortions will be covered - you name a promise and it's being broken. The Senate will water this down the result will be just one more government mess. The 2010 elections are our best hope.

Other than that, I don't have any strong opinions.

 

[Eve]

yeah, what Jdtruly said!

 

[Reba]

Health care bill? I call it the health control bill.

Anyone happy with the way the Feds run the Post Office, Amtrak, Medicare, and Social Security, enjoy paying increased taxes, and don't like making their own decisions, should be jumping for joy.

Not me.

 

[Foxrac]

I had done with health care debate in other thread so let agree to disagree, that all I say.

 

[Foxrac]

Health care bill? I call it the health control bill.

Anyone happy with the way the Feds run the Post Office, Amtrak, Medicare, and Social Security, enjoy paying increased taxes, and don't like making their own decisions, should be jumping for joy.

Not me.

That's laughable comment, no offensive.

You have military benefits, such as Tricare and VA hospital so come on when you are against on government, also same with Medicare when you turn into 65.

 

[Foxrac]

They have passed the health care bill last night and I thought it was good news but at the same time...bad news due to the economy and other things.

Your opinons?

Yup, it is good news and I'm not going listen to any bigot, they just don't understand about how health care reform works.

 

[Eve]

I think we understand PLENTY. In fact, universal health care isn't a new idea at all...
Operation Coffee Cup: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs&NR=1]YouTube - Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine[/ame]

Now back in 1927 an American socialist, Norman Thomas, six times candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, said the American people would never vote for socialism. But he said under the name of liberalism the American people will adopt every fragment of the socialist program.

There are many ways in which our government has invaded the precincts of private citizens, the method of earning a living. Our government is in business to the extent over owning more than 19,000 businesses covering different lines of activity. This amounts to a fifth of the total industrial capacity of the United States.

But at the moment I’d like to talk about another way. Because this threat is with us and at the moment is more imminent.

One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.

Now, the American people, if you put it to them about socialized medicine and gave them a chance to choose, would unhesitatingly vote against it. We had an example of this. Under the Truman administration it was proposed that we have a compulsory health insurance program for all people in the United States, and, of course, the American people unhesitatingly rejected this.


So, with the American people on record as not wanting socialized medicine, Congressman Ferrand introduced the Ferrand Bill. This was the idea that all people of social security age should be brought under a program of compulsory health insurance. Now this would not only be our senior citizens, this would be the dependents and those who are disabled, this would be young people if they are dependents of someone eligible for Social Security.

Now, Congressman Ferrand brought the program out on that idea of just for that group of people. But Congressman Ferrand was subscribing to this foot in the door philosophy, because he said “if we can only break through and get our foot inside the door, then we can expand the progam after that.”

Walter Ruther said “It’s no secret that the United Automobile Workers is officially on record as backing a program of national health insurance.” And by national health insurance, he meant socialized medicine for every American. Well, let’s see what the socialists themselves have to say about it.

They say: “Once the Ferrrand bill is passed, this nation will be provided with a mechanism for socialized medicince. Capable of indefinite expansion in every direction until it includes the entire population.’ Well, we can’t say we haven’t been warned.

Now, Congressman Ferrand is no longer a congressman of the United States government. He has been replaced, not in his particular assignment, but in his backing of such a bill, by Congressman King of California. It is presented in the idea of a great emergency that millions of our senior citizens are unable to provide needed medical care. But this ignores the fact that in the last decade a hundred and twenty seven million of our citicizens in just ten years, have come under the protection of some form of privately owned medical or hospital insurance.

Now the advocates of this bill, when you try to oppose it, challenge you on an emotional basis. They say “What would you do, throw these poor old people out to die with no medical attention?” That’s ridiculous and of course no one’s has advocated it. As a matter of fact, in the last session of Congress a bill was adopted known as the Kerr-Mills Bill. Now without even allowing this bill to be tried, to see if it works, they have introduced this King Bill which is really the Ferrand Bill.

What is the Kerr-Mills Bill? It is a frank recognition of the medical need or problem of the senior citizens that I have mentioned. And it is provided from the federal government money to the states and the local communities that can be used at the discretion of the state to help those people who need it. Now what reason could the other people have for backing a bill which says “we insist on compulsory health insurance for senior citizens on the basis of age alone; regardless of whether they’re worth millions of dollars, whether they have an income, whether they’re protected by their own insurance, whether they have savings.”

I think we can be excused for believing that as ex-c0ngressman Ferrand said, this was simply an excuse to bring about what they wanted all the time – socialized medicine.

James Madison in 1788, speaking to the Virginia Convention said: “Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations. ”

They want to attach this bill to Social Security. And they say here is a great insurance program now instituted, now working.

Let’s take a look at social security itself. Again, very few of us disagree with the original premise that there should be some form of saving that would keep destitution from following unemployment by reason of death, disability or old age. And to this end Social Security was adopted. But it was never intended to supplant private savings, private insurance, pension programs of unions and industries.

Now in our country under our free enterprise system, we have seen medicine reach the greatest heights that it has in any country in the world. Today, the relationship between patient and doctor in this country is something to be envied any place. The privacy, the care that is given to a person, the right to chose a doctor, the right to go from one doctor to the other.

But let’s also look from the other side, at the freedom the doctor loses. A doctor would be reluctant to say this. Well, like you, I am only a patient, so I can say it in his behalf. The doctor begins to lose freedoms; it’s like telling a lie, and one leads to another. First you decide that the doctor can have so many patients. They are equally divided among the various doctors by the government. But then the doctors aren’t equally divided geographically, so a doctor decides he wants to practice in one town and the government has to say to him you can’t live in that town, they already have enough doctors. You have to go someplace else. And from here it is only a short step to dictating where he will go.

This is a freedom that I wonder whether any of us have the right to take from any human being.

I know how I’d feel, if you my fellow citizens decided that to be an actor, I had to become a government employee and work in a national theater. Take it into your own occupation or that of your husband, all of us can see what happens – once you establish the precedent that the government can determine a man’s working place and his working methods, determine his employment. From here it is a short step to all the rest of socialism, to determining his pay and pretty soon your son won’t decide when he’s in school, where he will go or what they will do for a living. He will wait for the government to tell them where he will go to work and what he will do.

In this country of ours, took place the greatest revolution that has ever taken place in world’s history. The only true revolution. Every other revolution simply exchanged one set of rulers for another. But here for the first time in all the thousands of years of man’s relation to man, a little group of the men, the founding fathers - for the first time – established the idea that you and I had within ourselves the God given right and ability to determine our own destiny.

This freedom was built into our government with safeguards. We talk democracy today. And strangely we let democracy begin to assume the aspect of majority rule is all that is needed. Well, majority rule is a fine aspect of democracy, provided there are guarantees written in to our government concerning the rights of the individual and of the minorities.

What can we do about this? Well, you and I can do a great deal. We can write to our congressmen and our senators. We can say right now that we want no further encroachment on these individual liberties and freedoms. And at the moment, the key issue is, we do not want socialized medicine.

In Washington today, 40,000 letters, less than a hundred per congressman, are evidence of a trend in public thinking.

Representative Halleck of Indiana has said, “When the American people want something from Congress, regardless of its political complexion, if they make their wants known, Congress does what the people want.”

So write, and if your this man writes back to you and tells you that he too is for free enterprise, that we have these great services and so forth, that must be performed by government, don’t let him get away with it. Show that you have not been convinced. Write a letter right back and tell him that you believe in government economy and fiscal responsibility; that you know governments don’t tax to get the money the need; governments will always find a need for the money they get and that you demand the continuation of our traditional free enterprise system. You and I can do this. The only way we can do it is by writing to our congressmen even we believe that he is on our side to begin with. Write to strengthen his hand. Give him the ability to stand before his colleagues in Congress and say “I have heard from my constituents and this is what they want.”

Write those letters now; call your friends and tell them to write them. If you don’t, this program I promise you will pass just as surely as the sun will come up tomorrow and behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. Until, one day, as Normal Thomas said we will awake to find that we have socialism. And if you don’t do this and if I don’t do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children, what it once was like in America when men were free.”

 

[KarissaMann05]

Health care bill? I call it the health control bill.

Anyone happy with the way the Feds run the Post Office, Amtrak, Medicare, and Social Security, enjoy paying increased taxes, and don't like making their own decisions, should be jumping for joy.

Not me.

I see the same thing, too. =/

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Even as an American... I wouldn't really care. I do think people should have access to preventable medicine. However either way, I would still claim for exemptions for personal reasons.

 

[sallylou]

Reproductive care should be covered. Maternity should be covered. Currently, we have the highest infant mortality rate of all industrialized nations. We're #33 at 6.3 deaths per 1,000 births. Health care that overlooks the needs of half of the population (the female half, that is) is sorely lacking.

 

[Foxrac]

I see the same thing, too. =/

If you don't want find solution for many uninsured and any Americans who unable to afford the insurance so I would want rid of all medicare, medicaid and Tricare so you and others would hit so hard, that how I feel about Americans who unable to afford to get insurance.

You know that many insurance companies don't want health care reform because they love to be greedy and take advantage of you, they have rights to deny the coverage for lame reason, same with pre-existing condition, what happen if you are diagnosed with breast cancer under medicaid and when you change to blue cross so blue cross will not pay any treatment for you but left you hit the hard and file for bankruptcy.That's not damn from liberal ideology but everything since I know some conservatives in here are suffered so hard with private insurance and they want health care reform so badly due couldn't afford to purchase a insurance plan for their employees or their families.

If you don't want health care reform or government thing so time for you to drop out the medicaid or medicare and pay insurance in full price, see about how are you feeling about it.

 

[Foxrac]

Reproductive care should be covered. Maternity should be covered. Currently, we have the highest infant mortality rate of all industrialized nations. We're #33 at 6.3 deaths per 1,000 births. Health care that overlooks the needs of half of the population (the female half, that is) is sorely lacking.

Yup, I have agree with that.

 

[Lighthouse77]

Reproductive care should be covered. Maternity should be covered. Currently, we have the highest infant mortality rate of all industrialized nations. We're #33 at 6.3 deaths per 1,000 births. Health care that overlooks the needs of half of the population (the female half, that is) is sorely lacking.

Premature births worsen US infant death rate <---- do other countries consider miscarriage and still born as infant death (btw, I don't believe poverty really cause premature birth because most poor people I know get WIC or medicaid so they are getting medical care they need... I believe it is our diet)

I agree those things should be cover.. but what about octamom, should she be covered? should purposely increase population by a third party (IVF) be pay by our tax money?

I feel that we should not be paying people to create or end life. Let them pay for it themselves. We should only take care of life that is already created

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

If you don't want health care reform or government thing so time for you to drop out the medicaid or medicare and pay insurance in full price, see about how are you feeling about it.

Most of the oppositions here on AllDeaf already do have private insurance. Hell... I got private insurance.

 

[Foxrac]

Most of the oppositions here on AllDeaf already do have private insurance. Hell... I got private insurance.

Don't care about you due from Canada and there's no proof that many ADers has private insurance.

Canada is already to have government-run health care since US don't.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Don't care about you due from Canada and there's no proof that many ADers has private insurance.

Canada is already to have government-run health care since US don't.

Apart from you being snob, I am just saying there are people willing to walk the walk.

 

[Foxrac]

Apart from you being snob, I am just saying there are people willing to walk the walk.

I'm snob? I have no idea about what are you talking?

 

[sallylou]

Lighthouse, the old slippery slope argument is the logically the weakest argument. Most people are not delivering a litter of babies.

You don't want to take care of babies or elderly people who are dying? That surprises me.

 

[shel90]

It is either free health care or people continue to go without health care. I would rather have free health care even if it has flaws. Even the health care we have now has its flaws.