Signing and Poker Don't Mix

[AlleyCat]

I live in Minnesota where bar poker is run in virtually just about every bar here (it is legal here - bars are allowed to pay out to $200 and entry to the poker games must be free -- bars recoup the prizes from the food/drinks they serve.) Having said that, I play a lot of bar poker, as well as tournament poker at the local casinos.

Here is a situation I'm running into frequently. If I go to a bar poker game or a poker tournament, I, and the friends I am with, are very often told to STOP SIGNING !!! None of us ever sign when we are playing a hand, only when we are NOT playing. Therefore, if we are not playing a hand, we are not trying to cheat. We are simply chatting away, just like any other hearing person at the same table! I understand hearing people's concerns about signing when we ARE in a hand, but we don't !! They want us to not sign at all. So we're reduced to sitting in silence for the entire game. I've gotten up and walked out for that very reason, because any argument I make falls on deaf ears (yes, pun intended.) How do they respond? "It's the rules. No signing allowed. Period." BLAH BLAH BLAH

Earlier this week I was at a casino where my boyfriend (who is hearing but knows much sign) was playing a poker table. I was not. I was just standing by and watching. In this particular situation, he was not even playing a hand, so he was making chit-chat with me by signing to me, and the dealer told him to stop. I was dumbfounded. I shot back saying I was NOT EVEN PLAYING at all. I then said, "Ok, if you're gonna tell my boyfriend he can't even sign to me when I'm not even playing, and he's not even playing this particular hand, then you have cut off his form of communication to me. Therefore, you get to tell everyone else at the table who are using their voices that they have to shut up because, if you're going to stop him from communicating, you have to stop everyone else too from communicating. Whether it's voice or sign." I nearly got in trouble ....

What's your take? Is this legal that bars and casinos can prevent sign language even if the person is NOT IN PLAY?

 

[Interpretrator]

Unfortunately, I do see their point. Casinos are constantly on the lookout for cheating, which can include hand and other body signals. They won't assume that you are following the rules appropriately since the people who work there are trained to be very suspicious.

It's sad to say but I think your title, "Signing and poker don't mix," may be very true in the hearing community. I wonder, since poker is so much a part of your community, if there would be a way to have deaf poker nights, with dealers who can sign.

 

[Chase]

Another view of "rights."

These excerpts are from Roberts Rules of Poker used at several casinos I frequent.

“The following actions and conditions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator from the game or gaming room:

* Collusion with another player or the means to do so are prohibited, to include but not limited to use of signals or a language not understood by all players.
* Creating a disturbance or diversion, i.e.: excessive noise, distracting motions, movement of table or chairs, disrobing, etc.
* Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.”

The above are often cited when deafies (or those speaking a foreign language) converse at or around a gaming table. Management will often try to get around ADA (which actually doesn't apply to many casinos) by offering to set up a separate poker table for deafies where verbal talking is prohibited.

I’m totally deaf, though I have an advantage to speak and speech-read.

I tell friends never to sign to me, because I try to pass as only a bit hard-of-hearing. The reason is my greatest advantage is being able to read hearies. They all have multiple “tells” that give away many of their thoughts and actions.

So I give up my “right to sign" so I can WIN!

 

[AlleyCat]

* Collusion with another player or the means to do so are prohibited, to include but not limited to use of signals or a language not understood by all players.

So, does that give me the right to tell all hearing persons at the table they must shut up because they are using a language that is not understood by all players (me) ?

I can totally understand the casino's point of view as far as preventing anyone from cheating, but what bothers me is they tell me to shut up or stop signing when I am NOT playing.

Unfortunately, because I'm deaf, I will not have the right to communicate at a poker table based on Robert's Poker Rules. I think this would be a war I will not win. Because I don't desire to be barred from playing.

Chase, good point about not giving away your deafness so you can use that advantage to "read" hearing players' tells. I've done the same.

 

[PowerON]

Thank for a warn. I have thought about play poker in tournament at casino. I have never actually been in there before. I'm really looking forward.

 

[Chase]

So, does that give me the right to tell all hearing persons at the table they must shut up because they are using a language that is not understood by all players (me)

Alley, I want to emphasize I'm on your side. I'm only trying to explain the gaming rules as applied by the casinos I visit. I think if you and your deaf friends were at the table first, then the house would recognize your language as having preference and would forbid talking, because you couldn't hear if the hearies were cheating or breaking rules. In that scenario, they'd for sure encourage a chick like you decorate the room and encourage more players.

I can totally understand the casino's point of view as far as preventing anyone from cheating, but what bothers me is they tell me to shut up or stop signing when I am NOT playing.

But the signals/signs/device rule applies to anyone even near the poker pit. I realize you aren't cheating, just kabitzing with your buds, but theoretically someone could use ASL to assist a player, so they forbid it unless the table and room are full of deafies.

Anyway, I was just sayin' I work the hearies' system against them and have an edge with my ability to speech-read. Sorry, that's just empathy instead of sympathy.

 

[shel90]

I would tell the hearing peopel to SHUT UP if I cant chat. Better stick to the rules of the game..

 

[AlleyCat]

Alley, I want to emphasize I'm on your side. I'm only trying to explain the gaming rules as applied by the casinos I visit. I think if you and your deaf friends were at the table first, then the house would recognize your language as having preference and would forbid talking, because you couldn't hear if the hearies were cheating or breaking rules. In that scenario, they'd for sure encourage a chick like you decorate the room and encourage more players.

Oh, I know you are on my side. I just get my hackles up whenever I run into situations that make me feel less than equal to our hearing peers. And, I'm a chick, huh?

 

[Chase]

I wonder, since poker is so much a part of your community, if there would be a way to have deaf poker nights, with dealers who can sign.

Sorry, I missed your post, Interpretrator. I didn't mean to steal your idea; we just had parallel brilliance.

I'm a chick, huh?)

Yep, first of all, it says so in your title, and a gentleman seldom disputes a lady. And secondly, I'm an expert on the subject: Guys from all over Oregon drive their dates past my place and I either give their chick a thumbs up (a ten) or throw rocks at the car so they'll drive away fast.

A while ago I read a post where you and SkullChick were crying about being too skinny. Nope, you're both tens.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yep, first of all, it says so in your title, and a gentleman seldom disputes a lady. And secondly, I'm an expert on the subject: Guys from all over Oregon drive their dates past my place and I either give their chick a thumbs up (a ten) or throw rocks at the car so they'll drive away fast.

A while ago I read a post where you and SkullChick were crying about being too skinny. Nope, you're both tens.

LOL I seriously doubt I posted anything about being too skinny. If I posted something like that I was not in my right mind LOL ... The title refers to one of my cats - she is a scaredy-cat of everything so I always tell her she's a "chicken dressed in a cat suit."

How many cars have you dinged ??

 

[VamPyroX]

Unfortunately, I do see their point. Casinos are constantly on the lookout for cheating, which can include hand and other body signals. They won't assume that you are following the rules appropriately since the people who work there are trained to be very suspicious.

It's sad to say but I think your title, "Signing and poker don't mix," may be very true in the hearing community. I wonder, since poker is so much a part of your community, if there would be a way to have deaf poker nights, with dealers who can sign.

I agree.

If the dealer can't understand what's being said, then the don't know if it's just a normal conversation or a cheating method.

 

[deafbajagal]

It should be fair for all...if deafies can't chat, then hearies can't chat either.

On the other hand (no pun intended), the dealer can get an interpreter to terp for him what is being said.