Audiofuzzy
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ta da! who'd like to continue what was started on the other fourm? How about "copy- paste" and voila!!
Fuzzy
Fuzzy
Females were supposed to cover their heads before entering the church. Most of the older ladies wore lace manteas or scarves. Girls usually didn't like to carry scarves or manteas with them, so technically a kleenex did the job of "covering".Audiofuzzy said:I would go into the church with them and wait for them. Before going into the church they would each take a kleenex and stick it on their hair with a bobby pin.
That have to be from long ago? I've never seen the Kleenex trick.. what was that for ?
Audiofuzzy said:It seems like you never end it and, yet it still interested ya. *laughin'*
You are funny, Fuzzy !
Thank you
well I like to debate, true, and can do it till' cows come home. I have to restrict myself at times, really
I would go into the church with them and wait for them. Before going into the church they would each take a kleenex and stick it on their hair with a bobby pin.
That have to be from long ago? I've never seen the Kleenex trick.. what was that for ?
Fuzzy
Audiofuzzy said:The Bible explicitly tells us to pray for the dead (2 Maccabees 12:44-46). Besides being found in Sacred Tradition, which explicitly affirms the existence of purgatory, it is clearly that the doctrine of it existence is also found in Sacred Scripture.
When did the practice of praying for the dead begin?
Christ didn't found the Catholic Church, and praying for dead people serves no purpose. Each person, while living, must make his or her own decision to accept Christ. Praying for someone after death is too late. The dead have already reached their destination.The Catholic Church, from the time Christ founded her, always prayed for the dead.
Where?This practice, since its importance was already revealed by God in the Old Testament, however, was also present in ancient Judaism.
None of those sources are biblical.The earliest Christian liturgies (worship services) contains prayers for the deceased. Tomb inscriptions and all the evidence from the catacombs indicate that the earliest Christians prayed for their dead and had Masses offered for the repose of their soul. Writing in the year 211 A.D. Tertullian said, "We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthdays and anniversaries"
Luther didn't want to "invent" the Protestant "religion"; he actually wanted to reform his own Catholic church. But that is beside the point.Rejection of the doctrine of purgatory only came about when Martin Luther abandoned the Catholic Church and invented the Protestant Religion.
Where does it say anything about praying for the dead in that passage?There are indications of prayers for the dead in the New Testament (2 Timothy 1:16-18...
The theme of chapter 15 is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.and 1 Corinthians 15:29-30
Reba said:Maccabees is not part of the holy canon of Scriptures.
Tradition is not the Bible.
Christ didn't found the Catholic Church, and praying for dead people serves no purpose. Each person, while living, must make his or her own decision to accept Christ. Praying for someone after death is too late. The dead have already reached their destination.
Where?
None of those sources are biblical.
Luther didn't want to "invent" the Protestant "religion"; he actually wanted to reform his own Catholic church. But that is beside the point.
The dual doctrines of Indulgences and Purgatory fed each other. These doctrines were created about 700 years after the church of Jesus was established at Pentecost. If God thought they were necessary doctrines, why would He wait 700 years to share that information?
Where does it say anything about praying for the dead in that passage?
The theme of chapter 15 is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
The verses you give must be taken in context with the entire passage.
The verses leading up to 29-30 show that baptism was the method of identification of Christians with Christ.
The order of those resurrected started with Christ. Paul explained that if Christ was not resurrected, then no one will be resurrected. But Christ was resurrected, so everyone who identifies with Him will be resurrected also. The public sign of that identification (after salvation) is baptism.
Therefore, v. 29-30 asks the question:
"Else what shall they do which are baptized (identified) for the dead (a dead Christ), if the dead (Christ) rise (resurrect ) not al all? why are they (Christians) then baptized for (identified with) the dead (Christ)?
"And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? (Why do we risk our lives as persecuted Christians if there is no resurrection?)
Paul continues on thru the chapter to answer the question, verse by verse.
Finally, 15:58, he states:
"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."
Yes, it is worth the persecuted life on earth because we will resurrect with the Lord.
It has nothing to do with purgatory.
(Sorry for such a compressed answer but I am trying to fit it into this post.)
True, all priests, ministers, pastors, evangelists, etc., have a huge responsibility. If they intentionally lead their sheep astray, they have blood on their hands that God will judge.pek1 said:...Scripture says judgment is going to be even tougher on them when they stand before God.
Audiofuzzy said:the Catholic priests know what they're supposed to be teaching, yet I wonder why they aren't,
In your opinion, what's that they should teach and they don't?
I would think Catholic priests teach what they are suppose to teach..
Fuzzy
Reba said:True, all priests, ministers, pastors, evangelists, etc., have a huge responsibility. If they intentionally lead their sheep astray, they have blood on their hands that God will judge.