NAD files complaint

[jillio]

The National Association of the Dea has filed a complaint against a university on behalf of a deaf graduate student.

NAD Files Complaint Against University of Northern Virginia - National Association of the Deaf

 

[Interpretrator]

The complaint alleges further that the University of Northern Virginia refunded the student’s tuition and fees instead of providing interpreters for his classes.

WOW. In this day and age, and in the D.C. area to boot, that is pretty shocking. Unless there's some mitigating factor not mentioned in the link (always have to assume there could be more to the story), this is stomach-turning to me.

 

[jillio]

WOW. In this day and age, and in the D.C. area to boot, that is pretty shocking. Unless there's some mitigating factor not mentioned in the link (always have to assume there could be more to the story), this is stomach-turning to me.

Agreed. Any mitigating factors that would jsutify this would have to pretty pretty darned compelling.

 

[Interpretrator]

Agreed. Any mitigating factors that would jsutify this would have to pretty pretty darned compelling.

For example -- and I am NOT accusing this student of this, I'm being totally hypothetical here -- suppose a student was a total ass, didn't initially request an interpreter, was extremely disruptive and a poor student, and then decided to blame the university for his failure by claiming it was because they didn't provide an interpreter. I've seen cases close enough to this and I've certainly seen poor students blame perfectly good interpreters for poor performance in a class.

Like I said, I am not by any means saying this is happening in this situation. I just always like to be careful about making assumptions when I only know one side of the story. But I also guess that the NAD doesn't want to end up with egg on its face in a case like this, and probably gets involved when it really is warranted.

 

[jillio]

For example -- and I am NOT accusing this student of this, I'm being totally hypothetical here -- suppose a student was a total ass, didn't initially request an interpreter, was extremely disruptive and a poor student, and then decided to blame the university for his failure by claiming it was because they didn't provide an interpreter. I've seen cases close enough to this and I've certainly seen poor students blame perfectly good interpreters for poor performance in a class.

Like I said, I am not by any means saying this is happening in this situation. I just always like to be careful about making assumptions when I only know one side of the story. But I also guess that the NAD doesn't want to end up with egg on its face in a case like this, and probably gets involved when it really is warranted.

I agree, these situations can happen. But I doubt the NAD would have taken the case if there wasn't evidence of violation on behalf of the school. And, as this was a graduate student, the student has obviously complete his undergrad without disruptive tendencies adn a GPA high enoug to be granted admission to a grad program.

 

[Tousi]

I agree, too cuz the NAD, I don't think, is trigger-happy.

 

[authentic]

I am sure NAD did their part such as investigating the situation before filling out the complaint against the University.

 

[deafskeptic]

WOW. In this day and age, and in the D.C. area to boot, that is pretty shocking. Unless there's some mitigating factor not mentioned in the link (always have to assume there could be more to the story), this is stomach-turning to me.

I'm shocked too. This happned in D.C. of all the places??? It sounds like NAD has a good case on their hands judging from the other posts.

 

[VamPyroX]

Hmm... sounds vague.

The article doesn't state whether the student requested an interpreter in advance or a request was made.

I've heard complaints from some deaf students at RIT that they didn't get interpreters for class. When I asked them if they requested one, they simply said... "I'm deaf. I don't have to request an interpreter. It's their job to know that I need one."

There are other situations where students don't bother to request an interpreter until the last minute, then complain that they didn't get interpreters during the first few weeks. Well, that's the same problem... not giving them time to prepare.

As I said in another thread, it's a 2-way street... not a 1-way street. You need to do your part to make your request as soon as possible, follow their schedule if necessary, explain exactly what you want, etc.

At RIT, they preassign interpreters to classes before registration time. For instance, there will be 5 College Physics classes offered... and they preassign interpreters to 2 of them. So, we do our part to register for those 2 classes and make our request at the same time. There will be times when a couple students cannot fit either of those 2 classes into their schedule. What those students will do is register for the 3rd of the 5 classes and make their request for interpreters weeks before class even starts. This gives the department time to make arrangements for some classes where preassigned interpreters are not needed and are transferred to these classes or to hire freelance interpreters.

 

[Secretblend]

Hmm... sounds vague.

The article doesn't state whether the student requested an interpreter in advance or a request was made.

I've heard complaints from some deaf students at RIT that they didn't get interpreters for class. When I asked them if they requested one, they simply said... "I'm deaf. I don't have to request an interpreter. It's their job to know that I need one."

There are other situations where students don't bother to request an interpreter until the last minute, then complain that they didn't get interpreters during the first few weeks. Well, that's the same problem... not giving them time to prepare.

As I said in another thread, it's a 2-way street... not a 1-way street. You need to do your part to make your request as soon as possible, follow their schedule if necessary, explain exactly what you want, etc.

At RIT, they preassign interpreters to classes before registration time. For instance, there will be 5 College Physics classes offered... and they preassign interpreters to 2 of them. So, we do our part to register for those 2 classes and make our request at the same time. There will be times when a couple students cannot fit either of those 2 classes into their schedule. What those students will do is register for the 3rd of the 5 classes and make their request for interpreters weeks before class even starts. This gives the department time to make arrangements for some classes where preassigned interpreters are not needed and are transferred to these classes or to hire freelance interpreters.

It's very important to get whole story. I've been hurt by a person I thought was a good friend cause he never did ask me for my side of story and decided to discipline me for what I believe was not my fault. I've learned alot of getting whole story before acting on it.

 

[VamPyroX]

It's very important to get whole story. I've been hurt by a person I thought was a good friend cause he never did ask me for my side of story and decided to discipline me for what I believe was not my fault. I've learned alot of getting whole story before acting on it.

I once worked as a mentor for deaf students at NTID a few years ago.

I would have students come to see me asking me for help on what to do for passing a class. They believed that their teachers were failing them because they were disliked by the teachers.

To my knowledge, a lot of NTID teachers grade highly on attendance. (RIT grades on attendance, but from a different approach. For example, they might give daily or weekly quizzes that count for 20% of your grade. Miss the quizzes and you lose points.)

So, I would ask these students if they missed classes and they would respond with something like... "Yeah, I missed 7 classes. But that's not the point. The point is that they don't like me. So, they fail me. I get A's on my homework and quizzes. Why fail me?"

There was one student I knew who had a long history of missing and/or failing classes. When she skipped down during finals week without informing them that it was a family emergency, they kicked her out of NTID. She got mad blaming NTID thinking they simply didn't like her.

In all of these situations, they would accuse me of not trying to help them when I try to explain that it was their fault... not the school's fault.

 

[jillio]

The complaint alleges further that the University of Northern Virginia refunded the student’s tuition and fees instead of providing interpreters for his classes.

This is directly from the article. Obviously, a request was made, and rather than providing a terp, they refunded his tuition and fees, thus canceling his registration. Inother words, the message was, "here's your money back, and we don't want you as a student here if we have to provide a terp for you."

 

[jillio]

I once worked as a mentor for deaf students at NTID a few years ago.

I would have students come to see me asking me for help on what to do for passing a class. They believed that their teachers were failing them because they were disliked by the teachers.

To my knowledge, a lot of NTID teachers grade highly on attendance. (RIT grades on attendance, but from a different approach. For example, they might give daily or weekly quizzes that count for 20% of your grade. Miss the quizzes and you lose points.)

So, I would ask these students if they missed classes and they would respond with something like... "Yeah, I missed 7 classes. But that's not the point. The point is that they don't like me. So, they fail me. I get A's on my homework and quizzes. Why fail me?"

There was one student I knew who had a long history of missing and/or failing classes. When she skipped down during finals week without informing them that it was a family emergency, they kicked her out of NTID. She got mad blaming NTID thinking they simply didn't like her.

In all of these situations, they would accuse me of not trying to help them when I try to explain that it was their fault... not the school's fault.

That is a different situation altogether. In the case being represented by the NAD, the student was requesting a terp for graduate classes, and rather than providing a terp, they refunded his money and withdrew him from registration.

 

[jillio]

It's very important to get whole story. I've been hurt by a person I thought was a good friend cause he never did ask me for my side of story and decided to discipline me for what I believe was not my fault. I've learned alot of getting whole story before acting on it.

I doubt seriously that the NAD took the steps to file a complaint if they didn't have all of the facts necessary. And the sequence of events is clear. Graduate student admitted to the university, registers and pays tuition. Graduate student requests terp. Unversity says, "Nope, here's your money back. Go to school somewhere else."

The school's solution to the request for a terp is tatamount to refusing admission to a student based on the fact that they are deaf. It is illegal.

 

[jillio]

Hmm... sounds vague.

The article doesn't state whether the student requested an interpreter in advance or a request was made.

Yes it does. Please re-read. It says that the university refunded tuition and fees instead of providing a terp. Obviously, a terp was requested.

I've heard complaints from some deaf students at RIT that they didn't get interpreters for class. When I asked them if they requested one, they simply said... "I'm deaf. I don't have to request an interpreter. It's their job to know that I need one."

There are other situations where students don't bother to request an interpreter until the last minute, then complain that they didn't get interpreters during the first few weeks. Well, that's the same problem... not giving them time to prepare.

As I said in another thread, it's a 2-way street... not a 1-way street. You need to do your part to make your request as soon as possible, follow their schedule if necessary, explain exactly what you want, etc.

At RIT, they preassign interpreters to classes before registration time. For instance, there will be 5 College Physics classes offered... and they preassign interpreters to 2 of them. So, we do our part to register for those 2 classes and make our request at the same time. There will be times when a couple students cannot fit either of those 2 classes into their schedule. What those students will do is register for the 3rd of the 5 classes and make their request for interpreters weeks before class even starts. This gives the department time to make arrangements for some classes where preassigned interpreters are not needed and are transferred to these classes or to hire freelance interpreters.

Perhaps this is the policy of RIT,where there is a large deaf population, and therefore, will be deaf students in all classes. However, this is not the policy of universities where the deaf popluation is still the vast minority. Terps are assigned after the deaf student has registered for classes. Once the student has been registered, and their class schedule is available, we contact the terps to be available fort those particfular times necessary to comply with the student's schedule. The only way we know what times we need a terp for a student is following registration for classes. We contract out for terps, we do not have terps on staff. We do not initiate a contract until we know the specifics....such as when and where the terp will be needed.

And this graduate student did request a terp prior to the start of classes.
The university in this case has quite obviously violated his rights under the ADA by refusing to provide a terp and instead refunding tuition and fees.

I might ask you to keep in mind, this is a graduate student. He has already completed an undergraduate degree requiring 4-5 years of study. Therefore, he would have 4-5 years experience in requesting accommodations for himself in an academic setting. He also had to have an undergraduate GPA of at least a 3.0, and scored above the norm on his GREs to even be accepted into a program for graduate study. I doubt seriously that he assumed that a terp would just magically show up without his following procedure to request one.

 

[Interpretrator]

The complaint alleges further that the University of Northern Virginia refunded the student’s tuition and fees instead of providing interpreters for his classes.

This is directly from the article. Obviously, a request was made, and rather than providing a terp, they refunded his tuition and fees, thus canceling his registration. Inother words, the message was, "here's your money back, and we don't want you as a student here if we have to provide a terp for you."

Just want to gently point out here that the bolded section is from NAD's release. Of course they are only going to present one side of the story. I'm not saying they aren't 100% in the right (how would I know?) but there is absolutely not enough information to make inferences as to what the "message" was. You say "obviously" but there is nothing obvious here as we only know the information that NAD has given us. Yes, a request was probably made but perhaps the student caused a great deal of trouble in doing so, for example. How would we know from this information? We can only guess, or see if an article presenting both sides of the story crops up.

 

[shel90]

I am curious to find out the other side of the story. I am having a hard time believing that the University would just simply refund the money simply because the student needs interpretors in his classes. There has to be more to the story.

 

[jillio]

Just want to gently point out here that the bolded section is from NAD's release. Of course they are only going to present one side of the story. I'm not saying they aren't 100% in the right (how would I know?) but there is absolutely not enough information to make inferences as to what the "message" was. You say "obviously" but there is nothing obvious here as we only know the information that NAD has given us. Yes, a request was probably made but perhaps the student caused a great deal of trouble in doing so, for example. How would we know from this information? We can only guess, or see if an article presenting both sides of the story crops up.

Complaints always "allege". It is standard langauge. And working in a university, I know of not one single instance in which a university refunded tuition and costs unless the student themselves have withdrawn prior to the first day of classes.

A student creating touble in requesting an interpreter is hardly justifiable reason for refund of tuition and fees, and deletion of registration. I had a student a couple of quarters ago that was very demanding and rude, and never once did it occur to me to suggest that they take their money back and leave the institution.

I just don't see the NAD making "allegations" in a complaint to the Dept. of Justice unless they have substantial evidence to support those "allegations".
So, while we may not have heard from the university in this case, I'm certain that NAD has investigated the university's actions prior to taking action.

I too would be interested in the university's response to the situation. Perhaps we will run across a news article that contains their response, but I doubt seriously that we will, as the general response of schools, particularly state schools, is to not respond. They prefer complaints filed at the federal level not be widely publicized because of the negative press.

 

[jillio]

I am curious to find out the other side of the story. I am having a hard time believing that the University would just simply refund the money simply because the student needs interpretors in his classes. There has to be more to the story.

I agree, but given some of the people I have seen working in disability services, it is entirely possible that he requested a terp, they provided a practicum student instead of a professional terp, he complained, disabiltiy services stated that using practicum students was their policy when they wer available, and refused to hire a professional terp. And I'm sure that the tuition refund occurred after he had withdrawn from the program. The question is, did he withdraw from the program because they did not provide a terp. If so, then it could be construed that they refunded tuition rather than providing a terp, because a refund would not have ever been an issue if a terp had been provided. In effect, that is a decision the university makes if they refuse accommodations. Provide accommodations, keep the student and their tuition. Refuse to provide accommodations, loose the student and have to refund tuition.

Of course, this is speculation in this incident. But it is difficult enough to get into a good graduate program. There aren't many people, once accepted, who would simply drop out of the program without compelling justification.

 

[Interpretrator]

A student creating touble in requesting an interpreter is hardly justifiable reason for refund of tuition and fees, and deletion of registration.

You are taking me too literally here, and not seeing the forest for the trees. I am not saying this or that happened. I'm saying we don't know the whole story. Full stop. I would add editorially that I personally agree if NAD is behind it, they likely have a very good case. But objectively the fact is we don't have all the facts.

Perhaps we will run across a news article that contains their response, but I doubt seriously that we will, as the general response of schools, particularly state schools, is to not respond. They prefer complaints filed at the federal level not be widely publicized because of the negative press.

Yep, I believe that. Of course once everything is settled one way or the other there is likely to be publicly accessible information about it............