Music Program on Phonak Naidas.

NaidaUP

NaidaUP

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My friend has asked me (I don't know the answer) how a music program is set up in different to the automatic program.

She also wants to know is, when she listens to music via direct input and it uses the Fm program, can whatever goes into the music program, also go into the fm program?

I have no experience with listening to music as only listened to music a few time in my while life (25 years).
 
NaidaUP said:
My friend has asked me (I don't know the answer) how a music program is set up in different to the automatic program.

She also wants to know is, when she listens to music via direct input and it uses the Fm program, can whatever goes into the music program, also go into the fm program?

I have no experience with listening to music as only listened to music a few time in my while life (25 years).
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You can probably use a device called ICom. It allows you to connect to different devices to be able to hear through that easily. I only used it once when i was on the 30 day trial, but I liked it a lot.

I personally don't like the FM system, i always had bad experiences with it. It's either too soft or it's always staticky. I don't really know if the FM system can do music. I never had a friend or myself for that matter, use a FM system for music. I'm sure somebody here on AD can help you with this problem. I need to catch up on the technology today that are being made for CI and HAs. So i don't really know how much the FM systems can do for us today.
 
Music program? What music program? On the Naida HA itself?

The Naida, if it's the same one I tried, is not appropriate for music because it has a lot of speech programming in place that interferes with ACCURATE reproduction of music, not to mention the frequency range is very limited compared to the analog HA I use.

PANNED.
 
deafdrummer said:
Music program? What music program? On the Naida HA itself?

The Naida, if it's the same one I tried, is not appropriate for music because it has a lot of speech programming in place that interferes with ACCURATE reproduction of music, not to mention the frequency range is very limited compared to the analog HA I use.

PANNED.
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The whole point of a music program on digital aids is that everything is turned off like an analog aid.

I've heard of many people with music program's on the Naida itself, I just wanted to know, if it's only turning everything off or is there more to it.
 
NaidaUP said:
The whole point of a music program on digital aids is that everything is turned off like an analog aid.

I've heard of many people with music program's on the Naida itself, I just wanted to know, if it's only turning everything off or is there more to it.
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The thing to not overlook is the quality of the sound coming down the tube. The sound is heavily digitized, the higher frequencies are much quieter, and the bass frequencies is just motor-boating noise with no pitch differentiation. I returned them ASAP.
 
deafdrummer said:
The thing to not overlook is the quality of the sound coming down the tube. The sound is heavily digitized, the higher frequencies are much quieter, and the bass frequencies is just motor-boating noise with no pitch differentiation. I returned them ASAP.
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Digital or analog, a digital hearing aid still has the capacity to mimic an analog hearing aid just as NaidaUP indicated. If you were hearing motor-boating noise with no pitch differentiation you weren't listening through a setting that left it open. My last hearing aid was digital and was better than any analog hearing aid. I always made my audiologists leave my hearing aids open so that it would not mangle music. They would try the whole "speech-optimized" settings approach and I would not have it.

I don't think a music program does anything different other than leaving it open both in frequency range and gain/suppression.
 
BleedingPurist said:
Digital or analog, a digital hearing aid still has the capacity to mimic an analog hearing aid just as NaidaUP indicated. If you were hearing motor-boating noise with no pitch differentiation you weren't listening through a setting that left it open. My last hearing aid was digital and was better than any analog hearing aid. I always made my audiologists leave my hearing aids open so that it would not mangle music. They would try the whole "speech-optimized" settings approach and I would not have it.

I don't think a music program does anything different other than leaving it open both in frequency range and gain/suppression.
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Any idea if it's possible to fiddle with JUST the music program and leave it wide open, and putting on a manual setting, so when you're in the other programs you still have optimized speech.
 
ambrosia said:
Any idea if it's possible to fiddle with JUST the music program and leave it wide open, and putting on a manual setting, so when you're in the other programs you still have optimized speech.
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I think it can be done but not 100% sure. I've heard of it been done on other aids so don't know why it couldn't be done on the Naidas.
 
BleedingPurist said:
Digital or analog, a digital hearing aid still has the capacity to mimic an analog hearing aid just as NaidaUP indicated. If you were hearing motor-boating noise with no pitch differentiation you weren't listening through a setting that left it open. My last hearing aid was digital and was better than any analog hearing aid. I always made my audiologists leave my hearing aids open so that it would not mangle music. They would try the whole "speech-optimized" settings approach and I would not have it.

I don't think a music program does anything different other than leaving it open both in frequency range and gain/suppression.
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You mean to tell me that this audiologist who "prescribed" them was incompetent? I tried to explain to her, and she told the VR counselor that I was a "difficult client." The thing you fail to understand is that the hearing aid cannot reach down that low on the frequency chart, and there are alarms at work that I could not hear with them, which I can hear with the old analogs. All you need to do is compare the output charts of the Naidas and the old analogs. No contest.
 
deafdrummer said:
You mean to tell me that this audiologist who "prescribed" them was incompetent? I tried to explain to her, and she told the VR counselor that I was a "difficult client." The thing you fail to understand is that the hearing aid cannot reach down that low on the frequency chart, and there are alarms at work that I could not hear with them, which I can hear with the old analogs. All you need to do is compare the output charts of the Naidas and the old analogs. No contest.
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My old Phonak Superfronts and my Phonak Naidas UP are set with the same amount of gain and output. Mine can reach down that low as you say. I am no response at 250 frequency and my Naidas work very well for me with coping.
 
deafdrummer said:
You mean to tell me that this audiologist who "prescribed" them was incompetent? I tried to explain to her, and she told the VR counselor that I was a "difficult client." The thing you fail to understand is that the hearing aid cannot reach down that low on the frequency chart, and there are alarms at work that I could not hear with them, which I can hear with the old analogs. All you need to do is compare the output charts of the Naidas and the old analogs. No contest.
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Don't know what to tell you. I do see the frequency response for the lower range as <100 hz in the technical specs. I admit I am not quite sure what that means. It seems to indicate there is leeway going lower than 100 hz without specifying a hard cut-off point.

I can't imagine you can blame not being able to hear alarms at work on that though. Even if the alarm is lower than 100 hz, you should still be able to hear the overtones/harmonics of the alarm unless it uses a pure-tone alarm, which is not likely.

I used a Siemens Triano SP as my last hearing aid and did not notice any problems with bass frequencies.. and they were pretty much all I had left at that stage. Yes, I listened to a sh**load of music with it and was pretty happy with it all things considered, though I do believe it played a big role in blowing out what hearing I had left and can only blame myself for insisiting on the settings I got. I did have issues with older hearing aids in that department.. and they were analogs.

If you take a look at music as an input to a hearing aid you'll see the problem is more complex than a low frequency cut-off point.
 
BleedingPurist said:
Don't know what to tell you. I do see the frequency response for the lower range as <100 hz in the technical specs. I admit I am not quite sure what that means. It seems to indicate there is leeway going lower than 100 hz without specifying a hard cut-off point.

I can't imagine you can blame not being able to hear alarms at work on that though. Even if the alarm is lower than 100 hz, you should still be able to hear the overtones/harmonics of the alarm unless it uses a pure-tone alarm, which is not likely.
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Let me explain more clearly. The frequency chart is an expression of how high or low in pitch a sound is. A woman's voice in general has a higher pitch than a man's voice does. A bird goes still higher. A bass guitar is a very low-pitched instrument, and then your piano can go down even further on the very left of the keyboard. I can hear THAT with the hearing aids, and hear it right. The Naidas would not allow me to do that. It sounded like electronic motor-boating at the same pitch, so if you played on the keyboard, "C A A# B G D," it would sounds something like "G G G G G G."

The alarms are in a COMPLETELY different frequency range and another reproduction issue altogether. The Naidas that I had could not output up that high on the frequency chart (I'm not talking volume, but PITCH). I couldn't hear the high sounds of the jacket security chains nor the security tag sensors at the registers, and barely hear the tag sensor at the door about eight feet away (the old analogs allow me to hear ALL of them, and hear the door sensor 50 feet away!).

In my experience, the Naidas are completely inappropriate for music use. I'm waiting on word from someone in the industry to see where we are at with a suitable device for profoundly deaf musicians as an end-run around the hearing aid industry, which does NOT cater to musicians with this kind of loss AT ALL any longer.
 
deafdrummer said:
Let me explain more clearly. The frequency chart is an expression of how high or low in pitch a sound is. A woman's voice in general has a higher pitch than a man's voice does. A bird goes still higher. A bass guitar is a very low-pitched instrument, and then your piano can go down even further on the very left of the keyboard. I can hear THAT with the hearing aids, and hear it right. The Naidas would not allow me to do that. It sounded like electronic motor-boating at the same pitch, so if you played on the keyboard, "C A A# B G D," it would sounds something like "G G G G G G."

The alarms are in a COMPLETELY different frequency range and another reproduction issue altogether. The Naidas that I had could not output up that high on the frequency chart (I'm not talking volume, but PITCH). I couldn't hear the high sounds of the jacket security chains nor the security tag sensors at the registers, and barely hear the tag sensor at the door about eight feet away (the old analogs allow me to hear ALL of them, and hear the door sensor 50 feet away!).

In my experience, the Naidas are completely inappropriate for music use. I'm waiting on word from someone in the industry to see where we are at with a suitable device for profoundly deaf musicians as an end-run around the hearing aid industry, which does NOT cater to musicians with this kind of loss AT ALL any longer.
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I'm not sure why you are attempting to explain pitch and frequency to me when I play guitar and drums with an understanding in music theory. Do you understand harmonics? That should have clued you in. Read the report and then perhaps you'll understand the problem is more complex than you are understanding it as. Your issues.. all the way up to the inability to hear the alarm at work the way you used to, sounds like front end processing issues and not frequency issues.

Good luck!
 
BleedingPurist said:
Don't know what to tell you. I do see the frequency response for the lower range as <100 hz in the technical specs. I admit I am not quite sure what that means. It seems to indicate there is leeway going lower than 100 hz without specifying a hard cut-off point.

I can't imagine you can blame not being able to hear alarms at work on that though. Even if the alarm is lower than 100 hz, you should still be able to hear the overtones/harmonics of the alarm unless it uses a pure-tone alarm, which is not likely.
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This... Told me you didn't understand what it was I was trying to explain. I wanted to make sure I was clear. I know what harmony is. I'm classically-trained.

And you're telling me that the audiologist was incompetent? The horrors! I had ASKED for the analog program.
 
deafdrummer said:
This... Told me you didn't understand what it was I was trying to explain. I wanted to make sure I was clear. I know what harmony is. I'm classically-trained.

And you're telling me that the audiologist was incompetent? The horrors! I had ASKED for the analog program.
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No, I understood you perfectly. I'm trying to pry you away from the idea that it's a frequency range limitation while you are still focused on it. I don't know if your audiologist was incompetent since I don't have all of the information. The Naida has a frequency range from 100 hz to 5000 hz. I doubt very much that any of the alarms at your job fall out of that range, much less that you were able to hear beyond that range with a profound loss using analog hearing aids. I believe you when you say the Naida is not allowing you to hear sounds that you should hear, I just disagree that it has anything to do with pitch despite your reasoning for it. There are other factors involved, though it's possible she programmed it with the low end suppressed. It sounds like your sound window is very shallow.

How did your audiologist explain it to you? What was her reason for not being able to give you back what you were able to hear before? Was she responsive to your complaints? It doesn't seem so.
 
BleedingPurist said:
No, I understood you perfectly. I'm trying to pry you away from the idea that it's a frequency range limitation while you are still focused on it. I don't know if your audiologist was incompetent since I don't have all of the information. The Naida has a frequency range from 100 hz to 5000 hz. I doubt very much that any of the alarms at your job fall out of that range, much less that you were able to hear beyond that range with a profound loss using analog hearing aids. I believe you when you say the Naida is not allowing you to hear sounds that you should hear, I just disagree that it has anything to do with pitch despite your reasoning for it. There are other factors involved, though it's possible she programmed it with the low end suppressed. It sounds like your sound window is very shallow.

How did your audiologist explain it to you? What was her reason for not being able to give you back what you were able to hear before? Was she responsive to your complaints? It doesn't seem so.
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Totally agree with this. :)
 
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