Mother of 7 y/o Deaf girl

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Darling, I do accept that people are different but it sounds like you're projecting and turning a stint as a teacher's aide into years and years of experience in different settings. For example hearing from an alum of your program, is now "oh I taught many students in high school!" You do realize even if your claims are true that the students you've taught represent a VERY small number of the total dhh students out there. I can guarentee that they both aren't doing as well as you claim and they most likely had advantages that your average dhh kid doesn't. Again how do you know that you're not mistaking doing OK for "Oral dhh kids are doing AWESOME in ALL areas and don't even THINK about implying that they're not b/c it's a personal attack on ME!" I've met oral deaf TODs who gush about how WELL their kid is doing. Meanwhile, the kid isn't doing that well....but b/c the kid can function as HOH and isn't on the "Keep Be Positive/Shine of Positive level of literacy, somehow they're succeeding in the hearing world, since the oral TOD has a "healthy normal "oh look at the sweet wittle deaf kids in NORMAL schools" mentality. The oral TOD doesn't seem to understand that with the addition of cued speech, ASL, Deaf Schools, etc the kid could do EVEN BETTER and not have to work so hard. especially socially........I also have a feeling those stories about sexual abuse at Deaf Schools were most likely from 40 years ago, when safety measures weren't as good. AG Bell is FAMOUS for that..I remember a thread where the AG Bell mamas were FLIPPING out, convinced a child would be raped the SECOND they stepped into the school. Most of the time nowadays and up to 40 years ago, (before insisutional reform, which lead to INTENSE reform so that abuse, whether sexual or physical wouldn't happen) the sexual abuse is NOT insistutional. It's normally about a child with severe issues who should have been in an intense theraputic setting acting out. There are occasional staff issues, but that happens in the mainstream too! It's NOT a deaf school exclusive thing. It's very rarely a schoolwide thing and it's ALSO DEALT with. Most kids at schools for the Deaf have friends on staff they can communicate with. That is how stories come out.

What are you talking about? I have only been in this particular program for 3 years. Before that, I was a teacher in a self-contained classroom for first through third graders and before that, I was an itinerant teacher in a public school district. I have had a variety of students over the years, across different settings and ages.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Darling, I do accept that people are different but it sounds like you're projecting and turning a stint as a teacher's aide into years and years of experience in different settings. For example hearing from an alum of your program, is now "oh I taught many students in high school!" You do realize even if your claims are true that the students you've taught represent a VERY small number of the total dhh students out there. I can guarentee that they both aren't doing as well as you claim and they most likely had advantages that your average dhh kid doesn't. Again how do you know that you're not mistaking doing OK for "Oral dhh kids are doing AWESOME in ALL areas and don't even THINK about implying that they're not b/c it's a personal attack on ME!" I've met oral deaf TODs who gush about how WELL their kid is doing. Meanwhile, the kid isn't doing that well....but b/c the kid can function as HOH and isn't on the "Keep Be Positive/Shine of Positive level of literacy, somehow they're succeeding in the hearing world, since the oral TOD has a "healthy normal "oh look at the sweet wittle deaf kids in NORMAL schools" mentality. The oral TOD doesn't seem to understand that with the addition of cued speech, ASL, Deaf Schools, etc the kid could do EVEN BETTER and not have to work so hard. especially socially........I also have a feeling those stories about sexual abuse at Deaf Schools were most likely from 40 years ago, when safety measures weren't as good. AG Bell is FAMOUS for that..I remember a thread where the AG Bell mamas were FLIPPING out, convinced a child would be raped the SECOND they stepped into the school. Most of the time nowadays and up to 40 years ago, (before insisutional reform, which lead to INTENSE reform so that abuse, whether sexual or physical wouldn't happen) the sexual abuse is NOT insistutional. It's normally about a child with severe issues who should have been in an intense theraputic setting acting out. There are occasional staff issues, but that happens in the mainstream too! It's NOT a deaf school exclusive thing. It's very rarely a schoolwide thing and it's ALSO DEALT with. Most kids at schools for the Deaf have friends on staff they can communicate with. That is how stories come out.

No, I am not talking about 40 years ago. I worked with a student whose family had pulled him from the deaf school after he was sexually assaulted. He had been abused by another student and by a teacher. He had no way to communicate to his family what was happening and it took a long time for anyone to get him safe. The other student I was talking about attended a Deaf school for many years as well. I met her at an extra-curricular camp that the school was having for families. She was a bright 16-year-old girl but extremely unhappy. She and I chatted throughout the week and one day before the camp was to end she blew up at her family. She wanted to know why her family didn't bother to learn to communicate with her. Her mom said that she would try and learn to sign but the girl told her that she had already had 16 years to learn. She wanted to know why she was shipped off to a school when, if her family had chosen, she could have stayed at home with her brother and sister. It was a terrible scene.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Oh yes, don't you know? Bringing up issues she wasn't taught about is PERSONALLY attacking her! Speech only is PERFECT and normal, and has NO downsides!

No, claiming that I am such an idiot that I think that being cute gets a deaf child through the world is personally attacking me. The condescending "darling" and "sweetie" bullshit is obnoxious as well.

 

[deafdyke]

What are you talking about? I have only been in this particular program for 3 years. Before that, I was a teacher in a self-contained classroom for first through third graders and before that, I was an itinerant teacher in a public school district. I have had a variety of students over the years, across different settings and ages.

Really? Shadowing a teacher in a student teacher setting is now teaching? You claim an extensive work history......but again how do we know what you say actually matches up with your claims? I know lots of mainstream teachers who say they see the exact same things. You also never mentioned working in a self contained classroom until recently. I know you have a background in MO. MO does NOT have self contained classrooms. The closest it has, is the Special School District and that is an inclusion based setting. It also requires a background in ASL and you say you don't sign. Most states don't have oral self contained classrooms either

 

[deafdyke]

No, I am not talking about 40 years ago. I worked with a student whose family had pulled him from the deaf school after he was sexually assaulted. He had been abused by another student and by a teacher. He had no way to communicate to his family what was happening and it took a long time for anyone to get him safe. The other student I was talking about attended a Deaf school for many years as well. I met her at an extra-curricular camp that the school was having for families. She was a bright 16-year-old girl but extremely unhappy. She and I chatted throughout the week and one day before the camp was to end she blew up at her family. She wanted to know why her family didn't bother to learn to communicate with her. Her mom said that she would try and learn to sign but the girl told her that she had already had 16 years to learn. She wanted to know why she was shipped off to a school when, if her family had chosen, she could have stayed at home with her brother and sister. It was a terrible scene.

No, I am not talking about 40 years ago. I worked with a student whose family had pulled him from the deaf school after he was sexually assaulted. He had been abused by another student and by a teacher. He had no way to communicate to his family what was happening and it took a long time for anyone to get him safe. The other student I was talking about attended a Deaf school for many years as well. I met her at an extra-curricular camp that the school was having for families. She was a bright 16-year-old girl but extremely unhappy. She and I chatted throughout the week and one day before the camp was to end she blew up at her family. She wanted to know why her family didn't bother to learn to communicate with her. Her mom said that she would try and learn to sign but the girl told her that she had already had 16 years to learn. She wanted to know why she was shipped off to a school when, if her family had chosen, she could have stayed at home with her brother and sister. It was a terrible scene.

Again that is VERY hard to believe. How did you communicate with them when you might only know fingerspelling? The first story would have been ALL over the news!

 

[zeefour]

Again that is VERY hard to believe. How did you communicate with them when you might only know fingerspelling? The first story would have been ALL over the news!

Tisk tisk @Teacherofthedeaf a REAL PhD student would know a handful of antidotal stories do not equal anything close to proof.

And as much as it pains me to even entertain your continued self serving concoctions of stories at all, I will say if these families couldn't communicate AT ALL with their children isn't it their fault for not learning a lick of ASL? And if I recall when we spoke earlier in this same thread you were advocating CSDB over RMDS... funny if you'd heard these stories that you would say that a residential school is so much better than a day charter school for the Deaf.

I know it can be so so hard to keep all your stories straight!

 

[zeefour]

Oh and @Teacherofthedeaf I was raped my senior year of high school by a hearing student from my hearing high school I was mainstreamed at. So I guess that makes mainstreaming awful and evil too eh?

 

[Beowulf]

Honestly, in retrospect, I was raped as well.
There are some things too big for words.
There are stories too painful to tell.
We are on your side, zee.

 

[peekaboo]

i am sorry you guys had to go through that. LOoks like we all have had a history of painful memories. I know I have a quite a few myself. But I dont want to say here. I am with you both.

 

[Jane B.]

Really? Shadowing a teacher in a student teacher setting is now teaching? You claim an extensive work history......but again how do we know what you say actually matches up with your claims? I know lots of mainstream teachers who say they see the exact same things. You also never mentioned working in a self contained classroom until recently. I know you have a background in MO. MO does NOT have self contained classrooms. The closest it has, is the Special School District and that is an inclusion based setting. It also requires a background in ASL and you say you don't sign. Most states don't have oral self contained classrooms either

Where do you get the part that I have added the bold to? I do not know of anywhere that she has posted that!

Where did she mention working in Missouri?

What I remember her writing is that she knows ASL but does not use it in her current job.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Really? Shadowing a teacher in a student teacher setting is now teaching? You claim an extensive work history......but again how do we know what you say actually matches up with your claims? I know lots of mainstream teachers who say they see the exact same things. You also never mentioned working in a self contained classroom until recently. I know you have a background in MO. MO does NOT have self contained classrooms. The closest it has, is the Special School District and that is an inclusion based setting. It also requires a background in ASL and you say you don't sign. Most states don't have oral self contained classrooms either

What the heck are you talking about? I haven't shadowed a teacher since undergraduate student teaching. I also have repeatedly said that I do know ASL and that I have been in programs in the past that had students that used ASL, including being an itinerant with students in the mainstream who used interpreters. I also never said that the self-contained classroom was spoken language only. You are just making stuff up now.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Again that is VERY hard to believe. How did you communicate with them when you might only know fingerspelling? The first story would have been ALL over the news!

I don't only fingerspell, what are you talking about?

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Tisk tisk @Teacherofthedeaf a REAL PhD student would know a handful of antidotal stories do not equal anything close to proof.

And as much as it pains me to even entertain your continued self serving concoctions of stories at all, I will say if these families couldn't communicate AT ALL with their children isn't it their fault for not learning a lick of ASL? And if I recall when we spoke earlier in this same thread you were advocating CSDB over RMDS... funny if you'd heard these stories that you would say that a residential school is so much better than a day charter school for the Deaf.

I know it can be so so hard to keep all your stories straight!

I know exactly that. That was the entire point of my examples. Deafdyke said that her two stories of deaf men using prostitutes showed that people who use listening and spoken language are socially stunted. I said that two examples show no such thing. I then stated that I have had students with bad experiences from Deaf schools, but just because there are kids who were abused or unhappy in those settings does not mean they are not appropriate for other students. I was making the exact same point that you are.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Tisk tisk @Teacherofthedeaf a REAL PhD student would know a handful of antidotal stories do not equal anything close to proof.

And as much as it pains me to even entertain your continued self serving concoctions of stories at all, I will say if these families couldn't communicate AT ALL with their children isn't it their fault for not learning a lick of ASL? And if I recall when we spoke earlier in this same thread you were advocating CSDB over RMDS... funny if you'd heard these stories that you would say that a residential school is so much better than a day charter school for the Deaf.

I know it can be so so hard to keep all your stories straight!

I have never said that Deaf schools aren't an appropriate placement for some kids. I have repeatedly stated that we need to have a continuum of placements and services for all students so that they can have their individual needs met.

 

[Teacherofthedeaf]

Oh and @Teacherofthedeaf I was raped my senior year of high school by a hearing student from my hearing high school I was mainstreamed at. So I guess that makes mainstreaming awful and evil too eh?

I am so sorry that happened to you. As a sexual assault survivor as well, I know that this is far too commonplace and that both men and women have been victimized in a variety of situations. I hope you have been able to seek out help and support and that you have found peace.

 

[deafdyke]

Where do you get the part that I have added the bold to? I do not know of anywhere that she has posted that!

Where did she mention working in Missouri?

What I remember her writing is that she knows ASL but does not use it in her current job.

You do realize that with people with a certain disorder that something like getting a B on a paper is presented as "I'm going to Harvard or attendance at a community college is " I have an AMAZING high powered job with a Kendall Square startup" Her claims of being a VERY well experienced TOD who is embarking on a Ph.D canidacy sounds VERY simlair. She never came out and said she worked in MO, but she did mention helping with a referral to a state Deaf School that was searching for an audi. I did a bit of detective work, and MSD matches that description.

 

[deafdyke]

I know exactly that. That was the entire point of my examples. Deafdyke said that her two stories of deaf men using prostitutes showed that people who use listening and spoken language are socially stunted. I said that two examples show no such thing. I then stated that I have had students with bad experiences from Deaf schools, but just because there are kids who were abused or unhappy in those settings does not mean they are not appropriate for other students. I was making the exact same point that you are.

No. That was not my point at all.

 

[zeefour]

Where do you get the part that I have added the bold to? I do not know of anywhere that she has posted that!

Where did she mention working in Missouri?

What I remember her writing is that she knows ASL but does not use it in her current job.

You seen to know a lot about Melissa that she doesn't say here She's said shes not fluent in signed English If shes fluent in ASL and English shes fluent in SE.

i highly doubt someone who doesn't believe in ASL use im Deaf ed, who is hearing and who doesn't use ASL in her current interactions with DHH os FLUENT in ASL.

But please @Teacherofthedeaf prove me wrong I have glide, Skype, video chat on my phone your choice. I'd love if you could prove us wrong with this.

 

[zeefour]

i am sorry you guys had to go through that. LOoks like we all have had a history of painful memories. I know I have a quite a few myself. But I dont want to say here. I am with you both.

Honestly, in retrospect, I was raped as well.
There are some things too big for words.
There are stories too painful to tell.
We are on your side, zee.

I am so sorry that happened to you. As a sexual assault survivor as well, I know that this is far too commonplace and that both men and women have been victimized in a variety of situations. I hope you have been able to seek out help and support and that you have found peace.

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support including @Teacherofthedeaf tea

I've been struggling to be taken seriousky by our local police from my most recent assault that was incredibly violent. Its a lot of why I went back to school to get my counseling degree and why I want to go to Gally for my masters to help DHH women specifically since there's so little resources for women ar all esp where I live (a friend had to drive me 70 miles each way to the next county for the closest ER that does sexual assailt exams and I had a cracked skull and broken ribs and had beensince our choked unconscious since our county's hospital doesn't but they keep that quiet) and almost 0 of those limited resources are accessible for DHH

♡

 

[zeefour]

I have never said that Deaf schools aren't an appropriate placement for some kids. I have repeatedly stated that we need to have a continuum of placements and services for all students so that they can have their individual needs met.

This is great this is what most of us believe, but to make sure DHH kids have all the skills necessary early language exposure is key and for DHH kids this is sign language. If they choose cued speech, speaking whatever later fine. But at least they have natural fluency in their L1. Its easier to teach it early as infants and toddlers and not use it later than trying to learn it as a teen or adult. It can even be used as a way to access other methods later if the student and family want.

You just were saying completely different things earlier which is how this behemoth started in the first place.