Mother of 7 y/o Deaf girl

Status
Not open for further replies.
zeefour said:
Just a side note, the presentation you were at was at an auditory oral conference, so I have no doubts the presenter made sure to share only what could fit into this bias. And let me guess the presenter was hearing... and there was no CART/FM systems provided, let alone an interpreter. It would fit in with your mindset if you can't learn to hear you're just no smart enough, and you all likely think your field of study is only for "intelligent" folks.

@deafdyke is right. A good number of these studies, programs and evem individual researchers are massively funded by Ci companies. Anything that only promotes one method is suspicious. The money trail amd dispropotionate number of non DHH just make that exponentially more so.

While we're on the topic of motives... @Teacherofthedeaf you have yet to answer my question I keep posting time and time again. Why did you get involved with DHH ed and services to begin with? Since it seems you find everything DHH inferior unlike many hearing folks working with DHH because they're fascinated by Deaf culture/find ASL/BSL/Auslan beautiful etc.
Click to expand...
This research is not funded by a CI company, it is funded by the Australian government, as you saw. It is not promoting one methodology or language, but instead looking at outcomes longitudinally.
 
zeefour said:
Aww bumbye. I actually never called -you- any of those things, I only stated a proven fact about academic performance levels. That said, doesn't it suck to have those things said to you especially when they're rationalized as overall truths and therefore okay. At least my chosen career path isnt educating the very people I find beneath me, with a goal of making them somewhat acceptable which can only be done if they deny their very essence and replace it to be like myself.
Click to expand...
Are you going to apologize for claiming I was falsifying information and admit that is actually a longitudinal, population study?
 
zeefour said:
@Teacherofthedeaf BTW you must teach at a very unique school. You are able to post non stop M-F 8 am- 5 pm as well as many other times. At first I thought it was maybe Spring/Easter Break but its been more than a week. I wasn't allowed to have my phone out whem I taught preschool, not even at lunch since I had to help my kiddos eat. But overall we had very little technology in our classroom for this day and age. I'm always interested in alternative school set ups so I'd be interested in hearing more about your classroom set up.
Click to expand...
I have a break for recess (no recess duty today) as well as 45 minutes for lunch (which I spent with my husband today) and a one hour prep between 12:30 and 1:30. School is out at 3. Thanks for asking ;)
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
No, the conference had both real time captioning and ASL interpreters. You have no idea what conference I am talking about so how would you know about the accessibility?

I don't remotely find people with hearing loss inferior. That is absurd. I originally was looking at being an SLP but decided that I wanted to teach instead.
Click to expand...

That's odd because you have continuously mentiomed how DHH can only be at the level of their hearing peers by learning to hear.

I'm sorry, I'm being incredibly facetious about only having audio at your conference.ASHA's EHDI at least makes an effort to include ASL and other visual methods even if theyre still in the context of wanting DHH kids to be as much like hearing as possible.
 
zeefour said:
That's odd because you have continuously mentiomed how DHH can only be at the level of their hearing peers by learning to hear.

I'm sorry, I'm being incredibly facetious about only having audio at your conference.ASHA's EHDI at least makes an effort to include ASL and other visual methods even if theyre still in the context of wanting DHH kids to be as much like hearing as possible.
Click to expand...
No, actually never said that. I repeatedly said that no one method works better and that parents are the decision makers.
 
Look @Teacherofthedeaf this will keep going in circles forever at this rate. I'd be pleased to conclude this if one of two things happen. 1) Own your worda and your views. Admit that yes that is what you said and what you believe. i may vehimently disagfee with your views but will respect that you stand up for your beliefs. 2) Or instead you admit that you misspoke/don't mean what you said may have implied/something along those lines. But you cant deny you said whatever it may be in the first place or say you don't believe what you said without saying specifically where you were wrong and, the most important part, support what you say you do or dont actually believe. If you dont believe all hearing kids are by default superior academically to DHH offer an example of non verbal ASL using students you know or teach who have academically outperformed hearing standards etc.

Just own your statements. Even if you think being verbal indicates superior intelligence I will respect that you stand behind your beliefs, instead of flip flopping when someone accuses you of supporting something conventionally disagreeable.
 
Last edited:
zeefour said:
Look @Teacherofthedeaf this will keep going in circles forever at this rate. I'd be pleased to conclude this if one of two things happen. 1) Own your worda and your views. Admit that yes that is what you said and what you believe. i may vehimently disagfee with your views but will respect that you stand up for your beliefs. 2) Or instead you admit that you misspoke/don't mean what you said may have implied/something along those lines. But you cant deny you said whatever it may be in the first place or say you don't believe what you said without saying specifically where you were wrong and, the most important part, support what you say you do or dont actually believe. If you dont believe all hearing kids are by default superior academically to DHH offer an example of non verbal ASL using students you know or teach who have academically outperformed hearing standards etc.

Just own your statements. Even if you think being verbal indicates superior intelligence I will respect that you stand behind your beliefs, instead of flip flopping when someone accuses you of supporting something conventionally disagreeable.
Click to expand...
No because it isn't true. If you read the words I actually wrote, rather than your angry interpretation, you will see that I said that I did no such thing. Look at my words, not what you are assuming I said.

I don't teach children who do not use spoken language, so I don't have a specific example, but I am positive that there are children and adults who do wonderful things and are brilliant who use ASL and no spoken language. I have said this multiple times as well. The research is about averages and generalities, not individual cases.

Also, I'm waiting for your apology about the LOCHI study.
 
The following is based on the link posted by Teacherofthedeaf from https://www.nal.gov.au/project/long...children-with-hearing-impairment-lochi-study/

I think the problems with the LOCHI study come from each of you referring to a different place in it.

I discovered that at the very start there is this sentence "The LOCHI study is a population-based longitudinal study that prospectively evaluates the development of a group of Australian children with hearing loss as they grow up." Which seems to fit with what Teacherofthedeaf has been posting.

While if you go down a bit further under DETAILS is the sentence "Approximately 460 children across QLD, VIC and NSW have been enrolled in the study." which fits with what zeefour posted.

I have not done so but it looks to me like it would take a reading of the whole document to really understand what the study was all about.
 
Jane B. said:
The following is based on the link posted by Teacherofthedeaf from https://www.nal.gov.au/project/long...children-with-hearing-impairment-lochi-study/

I think the problems with the LOCHI study come from each of you referring to a different place in it.

I discovered that at the very start there is this sentence "The LOCHI study is a population-based longitudinal study that prospectively evaluates the development of a group of Australian children with hearing loss as they grow up." Which seems to fit with what Teacherofthedeaf has been posting.

While if you go down a bit further under DETAILS is the sentence "Approximately 460 children across QLD, VIC and NSW have been enrolled in the study." which fits with what zeefour posted.

I have not done so but it looks to me like it would take a reading of the whole document to really understand what the study was all about.
Click to expand...
The population that they are studying is all the children found to have hearing loss in the country since 2005. That is the full population. It is only 460 kids so far.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
The population that they are studying is all the children found to have hearing loss in the country since 2005. That is the full population. It is only 460 kids so far.
Click to expand...

Hahahhahaha.Okay, okay, I get it now. You've been messing with us the whole time. Well done. I mean you can't be serious when you say that...

Australia has 22 MILLION people. That's slightly more than the state of Florida. There's not only 460 some DHH children in Florida. There's 18 schools/programs for DHH children in Victoria alone, that's one state out of 8 states and territories. There's approximately 30,000 Deaf individuals in Australia who use Auslan primarily with complete (severe to profound) hearing loss alone.
 
zeefour said:
Hahahhahaha.Okay, okay, I get it now. You've been messing with us the whole time. Well done. I mean you can't be serious when you say that...

Australia has 22 MILLION people. That's slightly more than the state of Florida. There's not only 460 some DHH children in Florida. There's 18 schools/programs for DHH children in Victoria alone, that's one state out of 8 states and territories. There's approximately 30,000 Deaf individuals in Australia who use Auslan primarily with complete (severe to profound) hearing loss alone.
Click to expand...
The study has been enrolling children identified since the year 2005. They have followed 460 up until age 5. They have around 300 children identified each year. The study is longitudinal, so the longer it goes on, the more children are enrolled. This is not a difficult concept. You saw the information on the page you shared. It specifically says it is a population level study.
 
I read the LOCHI study this morning. The study is sad. 4% of Auslan used at home? Parents answered the questions in the study are selfish. CI, HA or not, I believe firmly all parents should be encouraged to learn Auslan will increase their children's quality of life.

As for population study term, a group of subjects are taken from "general population". The researchers never stated "all" subjects except "approximately." The researchers also never stated subjects are located in the entire Australia except 3 states. There are 6 states of Australia.

Cochlear is a CI company in Australia. JClarke is an AD member here. He also wears CI. He used to post regularly, but he has a busy life outside of AD. He is a Aussie native. He mentioned that Cochlear is the only one company in Australia. All Aussies wear different models of Cochlear. Cochlear is a member of HEARing CRC. It is found in the study- "This research was financially supported by the HEARing CRC established and supported under the Australian Government’s Cooperative Research Centres Program." Cochlear logo is there. You can't miss it.

"Why does Hearing loss affects language development?" Any mode of sign language can be used increase language development. That goes for kids with ASD, too. (That was off topic).

That's my cue to go. Saludos.
 
Last edited:
Teacherofthedeaf said:
That is everyone under the age of 18. They are following children after identification longitudinally. They enroll the entire population every year. They said that they identify around 300 kids a year.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you're not just nitpicking b/c you're so desperate to be right? One of the flaws is that there's only two schools for the Deaf in Australia, and Deaf units are NOT used. That means excellent Dhh support services AND speech therapies are NOT offered in the school age population. I could MAYBE see really good results if those pieces of the puzzle were there. But they're NOT. I did however find out something interesting about that Queensland study. Guess what's in Queensland? https://www.hearandsay.com.au/ You do realize that perhaps the "study" was on the grads of the Hear and Say Center , who include both HOH kids AND they also tell the kids who underperform to leave their study, so their end results aren't skewed? That could be why the population sample is so small. You know the Moog Center and other oral schools counsel out the low acheivers too?
 
deafdyke said:
Are you sure you're not just nitpicking b/c you're so desperate to be right? One of the flaws is that there's only two schools for the Deaf in Australia, and Deaf units are NOT used. That means excellent Dhh support services AND speech therapies are NOT offered in the school age population. I could MAYBE see really good results if those pieces of the puzzle were there. But they're NOT. I did however find out something interesting about that Queensland study. Guess what's in Queensland? https://www.hearandsay.com.au/ You do realize that perhaps the "study" was on the grads of the Hear and Say Center , who include both HOH kids AND they also tell the kids who underperform to leave their study, so their end results aren't skewed? That could be why the population sample is so small. You know the Moog Center and other oral schools counsel out the low acheivers too?
Click to expand...
What? They have only followed the children to age 5 so far. What are you talking about? It is not a school-specific study, it is a population level study.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
That is everyone under the age of 18. They are following children after identification longitudinally. They enroll the entire population every year. They said that they identify around 300 kids a year.
Click to expand...

No. Just stop, before your hurt yourself. There's no way you have a masters or are in a PhD program if you can't grasp basic sample size explanations (or understand basic world geography). It's self selective, parents choose to enroll, parents that are disproportionately auditory/oral. There's a lot more Deaf/HoH kids in Australia. I lived in WA (Western Australia) and there were more DHH kids there.
 
Wow again I come back to this and it's really gone off again.

I can only speak to being a current Deaf educator in the US with a 7 year old daughter who is has been profoundly Deaf since birth. Honestly on the education side what @zeefour is posting is in line with everything being taught and promoted in all the Deaf Ed programs I've been in in the last 10 years and conferences I've attended as a SPED/TOD that focus on TC and how to integrate children into the classroom with the LEAST restrictive environment and the least amount of tech/equipment/etc needed to be as successful as possible. It's not just for Deaf Ed but children with a host of different disabilities. There's no need to load them up with expensive, restrictive equipment to make them as "normal" as possible ( I hate that word normal by the way), when there's a method that allows them to use the skills and abilities they already have to succeed.

In regards to being a hearing parent of a Deaf child, my daughter was raised with ASL as her first language and since pre-K has been learning English as her second language. She's at her grade level for reading and writing in English. I know there's some controversy about my daughter being mainstreamed in a hearing school. There's a handful of other DHH in her school, but there aren't any in her age group and as of right now she's the only DHH child in our small district who uses ASL. I would love if she could attend RMDS, the bilingual charter school in the Denver area. Right now we've had some really traumatic events in our family so keeping my girls with me at home is really what's beset (her sister is 5 years old and hearing but is bilingual in ASL as well). When my daughter is older I'll gladly let her choose where she'd like to be for school whether it's RMDS, CSDB or even if she wants to enroll in Kendal or MSSD. I'm adamant about giving her all the skills not only what I believe as an educator is the best option for her academically and intellectually (bilingual education) but what will allow her to succeed in life no matter what path she chooses and be proud of being a Deaf girl/woman.
 
zeefour said:
No. Just stop, before your hurt yourself. There's no way you have a masters or are in a PhD program if you can't grasp basic sample size explanations (or understand basic world geography). It's self selective, parents choose to enroll, parents that are disproportionately auditory/oral. There's a lot more Deaf/HoH kids in Australia. I lived in WA (Western Australia) and there were more DHH kids there.
Click to expand...
I wish you would bother to educate yourself. In the very first sentence of the study it says that it is a population study. Yes, families have to opt-in, but it is representative of the entire population. It is not disproportionately oral other than the FACT that most families choose spoken language.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top