Mainstream school

[Kaz]

I am led to believe it is really difficult for many deaf children to grasp the English language and therefore they suffer as a result in school. If children are denied learning sign language and also have a poor level of English, how are they meant to learn in school? They may well be taught, but does that mean they will learn? No amount of communicative support will help if the child does not have a grasp of one language.

Don't get me wrong, different children have different needs, but this is taking away the choice right from the start. I believe that having schools geared up to teach deaf children, by qualified d/Deaf teachers, gives parents a choice of education for their children. I believe that parents of deaf children should be given the right to choose what language they feel their child will best excel in. Do some people still believe that if a child learns to sign, it will affect their speech/ability to grasp English? It may affect their willingness to learn English because they feel more at ease using sign language, whereas the English is sometimes being forced upon them, often ending up in sheer frustration for the child as they are unable to communicate what they want to say. Surely, the most important thing is what is best for the child. With that in mind, if you take a child-centred approach, you must have all that is needed to provide that child with the best education available, whether it is through mainstream education with specialist support if necessary (from suitably qualified people) or going to a d/Deaf school that offers teaching through sign language and maybe English too (or through interpreters). Does it all boil down to money, and fear of the unknown?

Whatever the future holds, there is definitely a need for more qualified individuals. I thought I wanted to become a teacher of deaf children, but I am so frustrated by current legislation that if I got there and realised that a child would learn better through sign language, but it was not "permitted" to teach through sign, I would be devastated. How can institutions claim to educate the child, if they speak in a foreign language. I repeat - just because they are being taught, does not mean that they will learn.

 

[deafdyke]

but this is taking away the choice right from the start. I believe that having schools geared up to teach deaf children, by qualified d/Deaf teachers, gives parents a choice of education for their children.

Well......I am against mainstreaming early on. By mainstreaming, I mean attendance in regular classes. It is just too easy for dhh kids (and kids with other classic disabilties) to fall through the cracks. Our special education system is mostly good for kids with learning disabilites. Most teachers (even sped ones) get a token amount of instruction on how to teach kids like us.

 

[gnarlydorkette]

Let's bi-bi (Bilingual, Bicultural) ! I think the Bi-bi approach is a good idea when the child is comfortable with its native language (usually by age 7, if one's parents do flex the native language daily with the child) then the child can transit to a bi-bi classroom where s/he can learn more about both worlds.
Why does it sound SO familiar-- AHA! Yessire, it is the Spanish-spoken children in our classrooms who are using BOTH language-- English and Spanish for lessons that are relevant to their Spanish culture, grammar, et cetera!! Nobody is protesting against those ESL (English-as-Second-Language) classrooms... but people are STILL raging about the Deaf classrooms...!

I sort of agree with deafdyke here-- I feel mainstreaming a deaf child, without any exposure to deaf culture/language/world, into a hearing classroom at a very young age (and s/he is the ONLY deaf) will cripple their upbringings and grasp on their own life.

I know PLENTY of deaf kids in that situation who are today struggling to sign fluently in Deaf Community to pass as a Deafie or speak well and socialize well enough to pass as a hearing person in the Hearing world. They appear to be stuck in a limbo.

I will want my Deaf child to be a deaf classroom for the first years-- Deaf classmates, Deaf teacher (or one that can sign ASL fluently!), Deaf everything... until s/he is old enough to acquire more in a mainstreamed program (prehaps during the middle school years).

And I disagree with you: "It may affect their willingness to learn English because they feel more at ease using sign language, whereas the English is sometimes being forced upon them, often ending up in sheer frustration for the child as they are unable to communicate what they want to say." -- I don't think any Deaf person will ditch English and use ASL as their clutch... English is an international language-- just like a Chinese person will try to learn English if one lives in USA... A Deaf person will LEARN English because s/he lives in America where English is a vital tool.

I am just curious-- have you ever met a hearing person who has a very poor capacity of English? Can you tell me what's wrong with that person? Nothing-- just a conclusion of poor education.
THAT'S THE ONLY PROBLEM. Hearing/deafness/English-native/Foreign-spoken/whatever shouldn't affect whatever language one's learning as long they are being provided the RIGHT tools to become fluent in a new language. PERIOD.
You have to remember that English is not the only language in the world... the bi-bi approach does apply to every language... will you able to be fluent in Farsi if I drop a thick textbook on your table and tell you to know the language in a week?? Prehaps that is how many mainstreamed classrooms are like for many Deaf students-- that Deaf students don't have time to prepare for the English-spoken classrooms because they are not being provided the right tools to understand English (and KEEP their native language... you wouldn't tell a Mexican kid to FORGET and STOP speaking Spanish??? Why would you do that to a Deaf person's native language??) I do understand that to an extent, a person should leave behind their native language when it is time for English-spoken classroom, but with our Deaf children, we need to prepare them while they are young with the Bi-bi approach so they can easily flow between Deaf and Hearing world with two fluent languages when they are much older...

Now, I have thrown in my two cents.

(and FYI my opinions may be biased because I am a Deaf person but I grew up in a Deaf classroom with a teacher who did sign, not speak, and then I joined in a mainstreamed school in sixth grade... and during all those mainstreamed years I refused to speak. I am now a senior at a state university, and I don't feel any regrets about my educational background-- it did provide me an excellent foundation for my future to build on. So like you did say-- "different children have different needs".)

 

[deafdyke]

have you ever met a hearing person who has a very poor capacity of English? Can you tell me what's wrong with that person? Nothing-- just a conclusion of poor education.

Yes, the problem isn't that dhh students are dumb at English. They simply approach English as a SECOND language, rather then a first one. Look at a forum where there are folks who use English as a second language. The syntax and grammartical errors are the SAME! I've met folks who utilize ESL who make deafies' command of English look like grand high literature!

 

[pek1]

Kaz,

First of all, welcome to alldeaf.com!!

Secondly, I wrote a report requiring teachers-in-training and colleges/universities to be required to teach them to know how to teach deaf/hoh students. The report was a feasibility study and I believe it would be beneficial for teachers to learn this, instead of learning how to put a condom on a banana (no, that was not added to report...I'm being facetious) or how to choose only the brightest pupils. Teachers need to learn that students are not "deaf and dumb" but "deaf and intelligent" instead, as being dumb has nothing to do with being deaf.

In addition, I still, as a hoh student in a major university with a hearing dog, am aware that other students wish they could bring their dogs from home. When students can get the help they need, then, maybe then, "regular" students can have their pets with them (btw...my hearing dog is NOT a pet).

 

[Kaz]

In response to this, I believe the biggest problem which is highlighted throughout the literature is the issue of identity. Language is an important factor in our culture and if we are neither proficient in sign language nor spoken language it has a fundamental affect our identity. This leads to many other problems such as low self-esteem etc. Whilst educated in mainstream schools, many children are taken away from lessons for speech therapy etc. Are we still stating 'you must try and speak, this is the best language?' speech is better than sign? hearies are better than deafies etc? Furthermore, it is often the case that there may only be one deaf child in the school, therefore it becomes impossible for that child to identify themselves as being a deaf person.

There are loads of stories out there (many horror stories) about deaf people not realising that they belonged to the deaf community until later in life. We must ensure that all children grow up to be proud individuals. :roll:

 

[deafdyke]

and I believe it would be beneficial for teachers to learn this, instead of learning how to put a condom on a banana (no, that was not added to report...I'm being facetious) or how to choose only the brightest pupils. Teachers need to learn that students are not "deaf and dumb" but "deaf and intelligent" instead

You know......I think that teacher training programs need to have seperate courses on how to educate deaf, blind and other classically disabled kids.
Educating kids with classic disabilites is different from educating LD kids.
All those pro-mainstreamers just don't get it. Certainly the quality of education may be better at a mainstream school, but too many mainstreamed kids get lumped in with the dumbass slacker kids who are put in special ed b/c there's no other place for them. Unfortunatly, the mentality is that the dumbass kids aren't going to acheive......and if a dhh kid gets minmal accomondations, and doesn't acheive under those accomondations, they too get told that they are never going to acheive.
I think too that education of kids with classic disabilites should be segregated from education of kids with LDs.

 

[Endymion]

Kaz,

First of all, welcome to alldeaf.com!!

Secondly, I wrote a report requiring teachers-in-training and colleges/universities to be required to teach them to know how to teach deaf/hoh students. The report was a feasibility study and I believe it would be beneficial for teachers to learn this, instead of learning how to put a condom on a banana (no, that was not added to report...I'm being facetious) or how to choose only the brightest pupils. Teachers need to learn that students are not "deaf and dumb" but "deaf and intelligent" instead, as being dumb has nothing to do with being deaf.

In addition, I still, as a hoh student in a major university with a hearing dog, am aware that other students wish they could bring their dogs from home. When students can get the help they need, then, maybe then, "regular" students can have their pets with them (btw...my hearing dog is NOT a pet).

Hi Pek ... sorry, off topic, but I wanted to ask something. Where do you go to school?

 

[Foxrac]

I am led to believe it is really difficult for many deaf children to grasp the English language and therefore they suffer as a result in school. If children are denied learning sign language and also have a poor level of English, how are they meant to learn in school? They may well be taught, but does that mean they will learn? No amount of communicative support will help if the child does not have a grasp of one language.

Don't get me wrong, different children have different needs, but this is taking away the choice right from the start. I believe that having schools geared up to teach deaf children, by qualified d/Deaf teachers, gives parents a choice of education for their children. I believe that parents of deaf children should be given the right to choose what language they feel their child will best excel in. Do some people still believe that if a child learns to sign, it will affect their speech/ability to grasp English? It may affect their willingness to learn English because they feel more at ease using sign language, whereas the English is sometimes being forced upon them, often ending up in sheer frustration for the child as they are unable to communicate what they want to say. Surely, the most important thing is what is best for the child. With that in mind, if you take a child-centred approach, you must have all that is needed to provide that child with the best education available, whether it is through mainstream education with specialist support if necessary (from suitably qualified people) or going to a d/Deaf school that offers teaching through sign language and maybe English too (or through interpreters). Does it all boil down to money, and fear of the unknown?

Whatever the future holds, there is definitely a need for more qualified individuals. I thought I wanted to become a teacher of deaf children, but I am so frustrated by current legislation that if I got there and realised that a child would learn better through sign language, but it was not "permitted" to teach through sign, I would be devastated. How can institutions claim to educate the child, if they speak in a foreign language. I repeat - just because they are being taught, does not mean that they will learn.

Depends on all schools... I have said mainstream classes does sucks sometime like mostly in English and Science (Chemistry). I think that u ABLE to do it. Try it... Never give up...

 

[petrie05]

mainstreaming affect social skills

I was mainstream all my life, i didnt know anything about the deaf culture till much much later in life. My socail skills today is very weak. I didnt meet another deaf person life myself till i got the 5th grade, but i was denial of that part of myself. now i am doing a research paper for college class about mainstream can people give their feedback

 

[pek1]

Hi Pek ... sorry, off topic, but I wanted to ask something. Where do you go to school?

Endymion,

District #279 in Minnesota, but for college and this report, Minnesota State University-Moorhead. I've been to other colleges and find the response to deaf AND hoh students to be the same, regardless of what the disabilties office says. :thumbd:

 

[pek1]

You know......I think that teacher training programs need to have seperate courses on how to educate deaf, blind and other classically disabled kids.
Educating kids with classic disabilites is different from educating LD kids.
All those pro-mainstreamers just don't get it. Certainly the quality of education may be better at a mainstream school, but too many mainstreamed kids get lumped in with the dumbass slacker kids who are put in special ed b/c there's no other place for them. Unfortunatly, the mentality is that the dumbass kids aren't going to acheive......and if a dhh kid gets minmal accomondations, and doesn't acheive under those accomondations, they too get told that they are never going to acheive.
I think too that education of kids with classic disabilites should be segregated from education of kids with LDs.

They won't listen or get it, deafdyke. I've tried. You can beat them over the head (for me, please do!) and explain it, but these "teachers" know nothing except "the list" of what students they can choose.

Because they don't listen (teachers) or want to listen, these are two of many reasons I didn't stay with my major and become a school teacher, though I may go for graduate degrees and teach at the college/university level.

You can bet, deafdyke, that if I teach at the college/university level, my students will KNOW they have been taught. One question I ask teachers is: Are you a teacher, or do you teach [children]? Yes, there IS a difference.