"Letting the Child Decide"

[Drew's Dad]

I don't understand the characterization of "letting the child decide" (whether to get an implant). I see this many places as the sole argument against giving infants or young children a cochlear implant, with the only reason given being that it is simply bad because parents shouldn't be making important decisions for children. I don't think this makes sense.

First, as children, they don't make decisions for themselves. Their parents, whether they are good parents or bad parents, make the decisions for the child because they are unable to.

The child does not decide when its diaper is changed, when to watch TV, when or where to go to school, what he or she eats, what clothes to wear, or what hobbies to have. All of it goes through the parent for approval. The child may think he or she is choosing at times, but the parent is really making the decision. If the parent agrees with what the child of any age suggests ("I want ice cream for dinner!" "I want to wear shorts to school to play in the snow!" "I want to go to private school"), then the parent can make the decision to allow that. If they don't agree, the parent makes the decision to not allow that suggestion.

Either way, the parent is making the decision, not the child.

I hear over and over again that it's not right for the parent to decide on the CI issue. The truth is that the decision to not implant the child is also making a decision for the child. That's what parents do. They try to make the best choices for their child, knowing that that child may grow up to hate the choice we made for them. ("I hated my hair." "I hated the school you sent me to" "I hated that you made me play a musical instrument") On the other hand, they may have hated it while growing up, but then appreciate it when older. We don't know what they'll think when they're older.

Why don't we just get real and admit that when we say "it is wrong for the parent to decide" what we really mean is "I don't know if the CI fits with my values or goals, I'm not sure it will enhance my child's life, and I am scared that if the CI doesn't won't work well that my child will resent me for putting me through all the therapy and not fully developing my ASL. I'm also scared that he or she will lose some of the feeling of deaf culture which I think is important. The "benefit" does not outweigh the risks to me, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child."

I think the reasons why some make the decision to implant their child are clear on this board, but it boils down to thinking "I think that there are advantages in this world to being able to hear, understand, and respond to the spoken word, I think it will enhance my child's life and opportunities, and I am scared that if I turn my back on this technology in the early developmental years that when my child grows up and understands that the opportunity to develop those skills are largely diminished, he or she will resent me. The benefits outweigh the risks of not implanting, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child.

 

[flip]

I don't understand the characterization of "letting the child decide" (whether to get an implant). I see this many places as the sole argument against giving infants or young children a cochlear implant, with the only reason given being that it is simply bad because parents shouldn't be making important decisions for children. I don't think this makes sense.

First, as children, they don't make decisions for themselves. Their parents, whether they are good parents or bad parents, make the decisions for the child because they are unable to.

The child does not decide when its diaper is changed, when to watch TV, when or where to go to school, what he or she eats, what clothes to wear, or what hobbies to have. All of it goes through the parent for approval. The child may think he or she is choosing at times, but the parent is really making the decision. If the parent agrees with what the child of any age suggests ("I want ice cream for dinner!" "I want to wear shorts to school to play in the snow!" "I want to go to private school"), then the parent can make the decision to allow that. If they don't agree, the parent makes the decision to not allow that suggestion.

Either way, the parent is making the decision, not the child.

I hear over and over again that it's not right for the parent to decide on the CI issue. The truth is that the decision to not implant the child is also making a decision for the child. That's what parents do. They try to make the best choices for their child, knowing that that child may grow up to hate the choice we made for them. ("I hated my hair." "I hated the school you sent me to" "I hated that you made me play a musical instrument") On the other hand, they may have hated it while growing up, but then appreciate it when older. We don't know what they'll think when they're older.

Why don't we just get real and admit that when we say "it is wrong for the parent to decide" what we really mean is "I don't know if the CI fits with my values or goals, I'm not sure it will enhance my child's life, and I am scared that if the CI doesn't won't work well that my child will resent me for putting me through all the therapy and not fully developing my ASL. I'm also scared that he or she will lose some of the feeling of deaf culture which I think is important. The "benefit" does not outweigh the risks to me, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child."

I think the reasons why some make the decision to implant their child are clear on this board, but it boils down to thinking "I think that there are advantages in this world to being able to hear, understand, and respond to the spoken word, I think it will enhance my child's life and opportunities, and I am scared that if I turn my back on this technology in the early developmental years that when my child grows up and understands that the opportunity to develop those skills are largely diminished, he or she will resent me. The benefits outweigh the risks of not implanting, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child.

I have never met a person who blames the parents for not giving CI or enough speech training in childhood? I have met people that blames their parents for going the oral route, but never the ASL route. Am I missing something here?

 

[Drew's Dad]

I have never met a person who blames the parents for not giving CI or enough speech training in childhood? I have met people that blames their parents for going the oral route, but never the ASL route. Am I missing something here?

Sounds like you're missing the point of my post - that either way a choice is made for the child.

 

[Hwy99]

First of all, Cochlear Implant is a Surgerical Option.

Cochlear Implant is part of the body, and the body is the child's body. It's his/her decision. If he/she say no, then don't. If he/she said yes, then do it.

Let me tell you story about me getting a CI.

When I was 4 years old, my parents was thinking about giving me a cochlear implant. After they talked with the doctor, they thought "Maybe we are too pressure on our child to have surgery". They feel like they should wait till I raise and make my decision.

When my parents feel that way, today I felt so very thankful to my parents for respecting my body, and who I am. I didn't twist any word in that story, my parents told me the exactly same story.

But... I choose to have a CI surgery because of curiousity. It didn't work for me at all, some people argued that I was too old for CI, that was the reason why the CI was not very benefit for me. Maybe they are right.

Maybe all of deaf children and deaf animals should get cochlear implant, and the Deaf Culture will never be here. What would you think about that?

Also, I have some friends who raised with the CI. One of my friend I am going to share.

When she was 2 years old, she got a CI. Today, she HATE her parents. Why? Her parents refuse to communicate with her through the sign (even her parents knew sign) and will treat her shit if she didn't wear the CI, also discriminate against her deaf signer friends. Somehow, she told me that she probably don't want to see her parents again because her parents kept disrespecting her as being deaf.

I didn't mean to be against you for your child to have the CI, if you think that is the best thing for your child to have CI so she can have opporiunity to have good career and good social life and good for many things. I am just saying to not forget to respect his/her deafness, and don't make his/her feel like he/she was the lower because of her deafness, and don't stop him/her from social with other deaf signers because she is learning from her true being.

Also when he/she raise to his/her teenage, he/she ask you "Why did you put me on the operation for CI?"

My advice, don't simple say "I want you to hear", it could make him/her to think that you don't like him/her as being deaf, he/she might feel overreacted.

It's better to say "I gave you the operation for CI because I want you to have varies of good opporiunity for the life". Your child might feel that you want to support him/her in any way, and it also make him/her to feel that you are giving them the freedom.

If you want your child to have CI, just don't forget to not disrespect his/her deafness.

 

[Boult]

Puyo,
see this article: Salt Lake Tribune - Insurance lets more people opt for surgery and chance to hear

Back then, the Springville couple felt the implants "meant you didn't love your child and didn't accept them the way they came," said Becca Larson.
Since then, the two have changed their minds. Their first child has the implants, along with two more who were also born deaf.
"I love hearing, and now I can just talk, talk, talk," 9-year-old Hannah Larson recently told a group of audiologists.

huh? *shrug*

 

[Hwy99]

Puyo,
see this article: Salt Lake Tribune - Insurance lets more people opt for surgery and chance to hear



huh? *shrug*

Did you read ALL of my reply?

I didn't mean to be against you for your child to have the CI, if you think that is the best thing for your child to have CI so she can have opporiunity to have good career and good social life and good for many things. I am just saying to not forget to respect his/her deafness, and don't make his/her feel like he/she was the lower because of her deafness, and don't stop him/her from social with other deaf signers because she is learning from her true being.

Also when he/she raise to his/her teenage, he/she ask you "Why did you put me on the operation for CI?"

My advice, don't simple say "I want you to hear", it could make him/her to think that you don't like him/her as being deaf, he/she might feel overreacted.

It's better to say "I gave you the operation for CI because I want you to have varies of good opporiunity for the life". Your child might feel that you want to support him/her in any way, and it also make him/her to feel that you are giving them the freedom.

If you want your child to have CI, just don't forget to not disrespect his/her deafness.

 

[Boult]

Did you read ALL of my reply?

what do you think?

 

[Hwy99]

what do you think?

You obsiviously didn't read my quote :roll:

 

[Boult]

You obsiviously didn't read my quote :roll:

oh boy.. when I posted the link for you, it was not in response to that part of quote you showed me. I am just merely showing you what this parent said.

 

[Hwy99]

oh boy.. when I posted the link for you, it was not in response to that part of quote you showed me. I am just merely showing you what this parent said.

What would you expect me to say about that?

And what will you say about one of my friend's experience?

You are just bringing the arguement here, I was just trying to make Drew's Dad to feel better and stand up for his choice.

 

[flip]

Sounds like you're missing the point of my post - that either way a choice is made for the child.

I agree with you that it's a choice, doing the one or the other. Not giving CI is a choice, too, of course. But you are also writing beyond this point pretty early in the post. In this last part of the post, I understand you try to justify making the choice of going for CI. Your arguments is that deaf kids might get upset when they grow up if you do not give them CI and speech training.

This part of your post still puzzles me because I have never ever met a deaf person that blamed their parents for not giving them CI in early child hood, or insufficent speech therapy. Never..... How is it possible to fear something that never has happened, if not anyone out there have met this kind of deaf people?

 

[Drew's Dad]

I agree with you that it's a choice, doing the one or the other. Not giving CI is a choice, too, of course. But you are also writing beyond this point pretty early in the post. In this last part of the post, I understand you try to justify making the choice of going for CI. Your arguments is that deaf kids might get upset when they grow up if you do not give them CI and speech training.

This part of your post still puzzles me because I have never ever met a deaf person that blamed their parents for not giving them CI in early child hood, or insufficent speech therapy. Never..... How is it possible to fear something that never has happened, if not anyone out there have met this kind of deaf people?

I'm actually not trying to justify anything. I'm illustrating that in both results, a choice is made for the child based upon how a parent feels when balancing all the thoughts, feelings and information they have. That's the point.

I don't want to get off the topic here, but there are literally thousands of examples of people fearing things that have never happened. I'm sure you could think of them if you tried. Irregardless, whether you have personally met someone who have resented their parents because they gave them insufficient speech therapy or not has nothing to do with the point of my post, and does not mean that it has not, or will not, happen (no disrespect to you here - it may sound that way).

We don't know because even though there may be a significant number of people who do not like the fact that their parents implanted them 20 years ago (at whatever age it was permissible back then), we have zero data on what kids think about their parent's choice of implanting them bilaterally at 9 months of age in the last year or so. Maybe it will prove to be a disaster. Maybe it will not. We don't know, so each person must make their decision for their child.

If we could just at least all agree that "I don't think parents should choose for their child" is not really a proper argument to stand on, since either way you are choosing, it would go a long way to actually getting at the issues - in my opinion. That's the sole point of this thread - if not trying to make a case for either position, which is why I gave an example of both thought processes.

 

[Cheri]

You are comparing apple and orange. Cochlear Implant is a choice to be made by an individuals not by the parents. You cannot compare parents choice for a child in diapers, food, against cochlear implant because it doesn't make no sense. Diapers are not require any surgery, either does food. You get my point?

I always believe in respects the right of each individual to reach their own decisions when it comes to non-emergency surgeries, cochlear implant is one of them.

Hearing parents make choices based on what medical experts says, It should also include talking with members of the deaf community and not just with medical experts.

I feel really uncomfortable with the idea of a parent who's capable of giving consent or a go ahead on getting a cochlear implant procedure done on a child being so young or a baby and without knowing if hearing tests are completely accurate. medial experts can make mistakes.

That's all I gonna say on this topic. Have a good day

 

[jillio]

I don't understand the characterization of "letting the child decide" (whether to get an implant). I see this many places as the sole argument against giving infants or young children a cochlear implant, with the only reason given being that it is simply bad because parents shouldn't be making important decisions for children. I don't think this makes sense.

First, as children, they don't make decisions for themselves. Their parents, whether they are good parents or bad parents, make the decisions for the child because they are unable to.

The child does not decide when its diaper is changed, when to watch TV, when or where to go to school, what he or she eats, what clothes to wear, or what hobbies to have. All of it goes through the parent for approval. The child may think he or she is choosing at times, but the parent is really making the decision. If the parent agrees with what the child of any age suggests ("I want ice cream for dinner!" "I want to wear shorts to school to play in the snow!" "I want to go to private school"), then the parent can make the decision to allow that. If they don't agree, the parent makes the decision to not allow that suggestion.

Either way, the parent is making the decision, not the child.

I hear over and over again that it's not right for the parent to decide on the CI issue. The truth is that the decision to not implant the child is also making a decision for the child. That's what parents do. They try to make the best choices for their child, knowing that that child may grow up to hate the choice we made for them. ("I hated my hair." "I hated the school you sent me to" "I hated that you made me play a musical instrument") On the other hand, they may have hated it while growing up, but then appreciate it when older. We don't know what they'll think when they're older.

Why don't we just get real and admit that when we say "it is wrong for the parent to decide" what we really mean is "I don't know if the CI fits with my values or goals, I'm not sure it will enhance my child's life, and I am scared that if the CI doesn't won't work well that my child will resent me for putting me through all the therapy and not fully developing my ASL. I'm also scared that he or she will lose some of the feeling of deaf culture which I think is important. The "benefit" does not outweigh the risks to me, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child."

I think the reasons why some make the decision to implant their child are clear on this board, but it boils down to thinking "I think that there are advantages in this world to being able to hear, understand, and respond to the spoken word, I think it will enhance my child's life and opportunities, and I am scared that if I turn my back on this technology in the early developmental years that when my child grows up and understands that the opportunity to develop those skills are largely diminished, he or she will resent me. The benefits outweigh the risks of not implanting, and that's why I'm making this choice for my child.

Who is the one that lives their life with deafness--the parent or the child. The child lives as a deaf individual and that is an experience that no hearing parent can fully understand, as they have never had the experience. The one who lives with being Deaf/deaf is the one who has the right to decide how they want to cope with that.

 

[Drew's Dad]

You are comparing apple and orange. Cochlear Implant is a choice to be made by an individuals not by the parents. You cannot compare parents choice for a child in diapers, food, against cochlear implant because it doesn't make no sense. Diapers are not require any surgery, either does food. You get my point?

I always believe in respects the right of each individual to reach their own decisions when it comes to non-emergency surgeries, cochlear implant is one of them.

Hearing parents make choices based on what medical experts says, It should also include talking with members of the deaf community and not just with medical experts.

I feel really uncomfortable with the idea of a parent who's capable of giving consent or a go ahead on getting a cochlear implant procedure done on a child being so young or a baby and without knowing if hearing tests are completely accurate. medial experts can make mistakes.

That's all I gonna say on this topic. Have a good day

Sounds like your "point" is that you don't think children should be implanted.

 

[Cheri]

Sounds like your "point" is that you don't think children should be implanted.

That's correct, It has been my opinion for years, It hasn't change. I just think that hearing parents need to learn the term of "accepting" the child for who she/he is, not what they want the child to become. If a child decide on cochlear implant on a certain age level, I'm all for it, I believe in individuals choice.

 

[Drew's Dad]

Who is the one that lives their life with deafness--the parent or the child. The child lives as a deaf individual and that is an experience that no hearing parent can fully understand, as they have never had the experience. The one who lives with being Deaf/deaf is the one who has the right to decide how they want to cope with that.

If that's the choice for the child that a parent wants to make, then that's fine with me - but the parent is the one deciding how that child will cope with their deafness, at least until they are old enough to take their own path.

At that point, the results of the parent's choice will be either be agreed with and continued, or disagreed with and discarded. Regardless of which choice the parent makes when the child is young, and regardless of any change in that choice the child makes for him or herself when older, either way there is a result and impact that the child will deal with.

Either way, a choice was made for the child that they will have to deal with.

 

[Drew's Dad]

That's correct, It has been my opinion for years, It hasn't change. I just think that hearing parents need to learn the term of "accepting" the child for who she/he is, not what they want the child to become. If a child decide on cochlear implant on a certain age level, I'm all for it, I believe in individuals choice.

I appreciate your opinion, it's just that "what side you are on" has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[neecy]

Why do we, time and time again, see people accusing parents of "not accepting" their deaf child if they get them implanted? Far from it, I see it as parents trying to give their child the best of BOTH worlds.

And since you mentioned the reason CI is wrong is because it is a non-emergency surgery, then I suppose getting a child's hairlip fixed is unfair and they should wait until the child is old enough to decide as well?

How about surgery to correct bow-legs (children can STILL walk with bow-legs although its much more difficult,) removing a child's tonsils is a non-emergency surgery too - quite often parents and their doctors chose to have this done before any problem has ever developed with the tonsils! Shame on them! The child didn't make that decision either.

How about circumcision? The foreskin isn't hurting the baby at all, so how dare they remove it??

I'm just trying to point out that "non life threatening" surgeries are done on babies and children *ALL THE TIME!!* and if that is the only reason to be against a CI, I guess its fair to assume you are also against every single other "non life threatening" surgery that a parent decides??

 

[Angel]

We all know how traumatic it is when hearing parents first discover their child is deaf and in most cases there will be doctors or audiologists pushing hearing parents toward speech therapy and cochlear implants and some will even warn the hearing parents not to expose their deaf children to sign language or Deaf culture.. and of course I know that the parents are the one deciding but however it doesn't seem to bother these parents much when the doctors or the audiologists are telling them what they should do for their deaf child but it bothers them more when other deaf people comes in here and speak their mind on what they think of this....I don't get it....

Sounds like CI is the only way out of this because " now my child can hear ", nothing else matters....