Language differences....

[Audiofuzzy]

Recently on the other forum I was accused of being disrespectful because
I dared to point out how some deaf members seem not be understanding written hearing English well.
First of all I wasn't disrespectful, I just stated a fact, fact that is the root of majority of problems between hearing posters and some deaf posters, resulting in unpleasant, lenghty, uneccessary exchanges which eventually hurt everybody, and because of that nobody learns anything positive.

I think anybody who says there is no language problem here is avoiding the truth. And the problem. I think anybody who insist that there are no deaf members whose enviroment affected their written and oral language, is fooling themselves and not being realistic.

There IS such thing like ASL affected written English. This might not be a proper name for it, if you know one I'll be happy to know and use it.
And this is nothing to be ashamed of or belittling - this just a fact, a reality - deaf people DO often have different syntax, grammar because of their deafness (indirectly). So understandable.
It's just a FACT. Why deny truth?
It is the same thing as the fact that many deaf people have affected speech - it's just a result of being deaf, so understandable.

Likewise, I observed that because of that - using English in different way- some deaf people have a problem understanding written English.

And this is important issue. Because inability to understand written words leds to misunderstandings, misinterpretations, missing the points and receiving incorrect messages.

Yet instead of wanting to solve this problem to better communication, looks like nobody is interested in getting to the root of this BIG problem! On the contrary - looks like no one want to admit at all there is a problem.
why is that?

Fuzzy

 

[doh]

Nothing wrong with having English as a second language (and sign as a first). As long as the point is given and received clearly then what's it matter if it's the Queen's English or not?

 

[Audiofuzzy]

There is nothing wrong, of course - that's what I am saying all along but if at one point two sides can not communicate well because of the langauge differences, what should be done?

Fuzzy

 

[Keanusmom]

And in today's time, it really doesn't matter. There are people with no hearing or speech problems who have yet to master English! Especially here in America. Our language is STILL evolving (ebonics, IMlish, slang) so, not many people focus on getting the Queen's English! LOL

I think I agree with you, Audiofuzzy, in just that, ASL is in a different context and syntax than English. Its actually closer to Spanish than it is English. I disagree with you when you say it is a result of deafness that some deaf people don't do well with written English. Its all on the person how much they want to learn the English (written) language and if they want to MASTER it or not.

I have been on several forums, talking to hearing people with college degrees and they still leave critical words out of sentences (like a VERB or NOUN) and they have horrible spelling.

 

[Keanusmom]

There is nothing wrong, of course - that's what I am saying all along but if at one point two sides can not communicate well because of the langauge differences, what should be done?

Fuzzy

Ask the person you are talking to to repeat what they said of you don't understand. I am having trouble understanding why they cannot communicate well if they are TRYING to hear/understand the other person. And if it's that serious, they could get an interpreter. *shrug*

 

[Reba]

... As long as the point is given and received clearly then what's it matter if it's the Queen's English or not?

For most everyday life, it's probably not that important.

For academic and professional success, it's important. (Although in the States, it's not the Queen's English but standard American English. :P )

 

[Audiofuzzy]

For now, please let's leave the subject of how well general population does with English -out. Although I sure agree with you, this is not the subject of my post, and I would like to keep it simple, very simple without additional aspects, for best clarity. Please don't take it as "turn off" remark.

I disagree with you when you say it is a result of deafness that some deaf people don't do well with written English. Its all on the person how much they want to learn the English (written) language and if they want to MASTER it or not.

I get you. Altough I think one is related to the other. While I agree being deaf per se have nothing to do with written English, and anyone can indeed master it if one only wants to,
the fact remains if you grew up for example in other country and English is your second language, or are deaf and used sign mostly - it affects the way you speak or write as well. I know because English is my second language and I was told quite a few times that sometimes my grammar is off. No matter how much I try I am unable to "feel" the langauge the way the native do.
This is what I am trying to say- because of that, some deaf people have better understanding of written English than other. But if people don't believe you when you say "you didn't get it", what can you do? Endless explanations are not helping.

I am having trouble understanding why they cannot communicate well if they are TRYING to hear/understand the other person.

I have too! Indeed where the problem lies, then? Is it English only, or is it also the attitude? An interpreter is what I suggested but since the misunderstanding happens on the forums is rather hard to do, I guess.

For most everyday life, it's probably not that important.

I thought so too Reba until I got involved in many discussion with people who despite my best in trying to get thru to them, they do not understand and on top of that seems to refuse to believe me when I say they don't get my point. That is why I opened this thread - to help some people realise that THERE IS language barrier between some of us, and this is a FACT that some deaf people have better understanding of written English than other because of the way they grew up - some more signing, some more "hearing". which, again is not reason to feel bad about- it's just a fact.
But that opinion seem to be rejected.

Fuzzy

 

[Interpretrator]

I dared to point out how some deaf members seem not be understanding written hearing English well.

First off -- "written hearing English"?

Second of all, what I see on this forum isn't that far off from what I see on forums populated (as far as I know) entirely by hearing people.

Third, I'm sure it would be nice if we could turn back the clock and provide a wonderful bi-bi education to every deaf person who was failed by an ignorant and in some cases worse-than-nothing public educational system. This is more or less my job at the moment with the deaf college students I teach who cannot write a simple English sentence with one subject and one verb.

So why don't I care about it on AD? Because I come here to learn from people and enjoy camaraderie. I suspect the same is true for many people, that they come here to hang out rather than have a tutoring session. This is likely why people are not motivated to "fix" this problem but rather be accepted for who they are around here, as they are not in many aspects of their daily lives.

Just a hunch.

 

[Cheri]

I know this thread is direct to me because of that Audiofuzzy pointed out in another thread that I for one do not understand written English and that my writing skills is ASL. I don't like getting criticism based on how I write, Is there some type of competition based on who can read and write no matter how good or bad?

Everyone has their own perspectives on how good they write, Every individuals have their own writing styles in different way it's never the same.

You said that some of us don't understand written English, because of some of us misunderstood, misinterpretation, missed the point of their posts, sometimes that can cause from reading so fast and perhaps miss the whole concept of the point of their post, but that can happen to anyone not those who are deaf.

I don't like how you pin down some of us, when it can happen to everyone of us from time to time.

That's all I am gonna say to the point on.

 

[Tousi]

Basically, Fuzzy, the truth of the matter here is an attitudinal one; you burned your bridges here past the point where some people do not want to focus on anything you say/ask anymore. That's how I see it, given what has happened in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Keanusmom]

Basically, Fuzzy, the truth of the matter here is an attitudinal one; you burned your bridges here past the point where some people do not want to focus on anything you say/ask anymore. That's how I see it, given what has happened in the last couple of weeks.

That will do it!

I remember when I was in middle school (7-8 grade), I was in "Mentally Gifted" classes which challenged us more than average because we were the smart kids (or whatever!) I used to get called all kinds of names because I used big-A words. It wasn't because I was trying to be a smart ass, it was because it was MY language. Everyone in my family (at the time) were Educators, so slang and misuse of words was simply unacceptable. People wouldn't want to be my friend because they felt stupid around me. *shrug* I now know how to talk to people from all walks of life using simple un-offensive words and getting my point accross. I ALSO know how to slay someone with my tongue if deemed necessary! LOL (I am the queen of cussing people out!)

All that to say, I had to realize that when I am in a setting unfamiliar to my background, I need to act acceptable to be accepted. Understand to be understood. And be nice to have others be nice when addressing me.
(There is a line from the Bible that alludes to this type of behavior)

I tell you what, the people here are being a LOT nicer than I would have if I thought you were picking a fight with me! LOL

Just something to think about in your future postings.

 

[JeepGirl]

Fuzzy, You're basically pointing at "Deaf" people for how they read and write, "type". Do you have a problem with them writing their own words in ASL? Obviously, Fuzzy, you're very judgemental on how they think or write. Why should that matter to you? If you have a problem with that, you really don't belong in here. Move on to the "perfectionist forum".

by the way, I have seen hearing people with very high I.Q. misspelled or skipped a word. Not only Deaf people. Stop being so judgemental.

also, fuzzy, WE have NOTHING TO DENY OR ADMIT anything. Each individuals have their own language. the individuals don't give a rat what other people think of their writing or thinking, that is their own words that they can express. No matter how hard they try.. they are still here and being UN- shamed of speaking of their own minds. Here you are, saying they can't admit or they deny how they write. Its you that can't accept how they write or think. Its driving you crazy because of it. that's ridiculous.

When we write or think with expressions, you can't stand it, it has to be your way.. the way you want us to be. You can't change us.

If you don't like it, go to user cp and send a message to Alex and tell him to cancel your friggin' ALLDEAF acct! If you can just accept for who they are.. then speak nicely and properly instead of insulting that they can't do anything right. If you feel that they don't understand you.. then repeat.. How hard is that????

 

[Tousi]

That will do it!

I remember when I was in middle school (7-8 grade), I was in "Mentally Gifted" classes which challenged us more than average because we were the smart kids (or whatever!) I used to get called all kinds of names because I used big-A words. It wasn't because I was trying to be a smart ass, it was because it was MY language. Everyone in my family (at the time) were Educators, so slang and misuse of words was simply unacceptable. People wouldn't want to be my friend because they felt stupid around me. *shrug* I now know how to talk to people from all walks of life using simple un-offensive words and getting my point accross. I ALSO know how to slay someone with my tongue if deemed necessary! LOL (I am the queen of cussing people out!)

All that to say, I had to realize that when I am in a setting unfamiliar to my background, I need to act acceptable to be accepted. Understand to be understood. And be nice to have others be nice when addressing me.
(There is a line from the Bible that alludes to this type of behavior)

I tell you what, the people here are being a LOT nicer than I would have if I thought you were picking a fight with me! LOL

Just something to think about in your future postings.

Hahaha, Keanusmom; we recognize and confirm the cannonball warning shot across the bow! We will take heed!

 

[GalaxyAngel]

This forum isn't discrimination their structure languages. Like everyone feel comfortable written their languages. If you don't understand theirs.. Why can't you try ask the person, Can you explain clarifty what their expection defnation to you..
Clear it up than keep push their mouth off..

I do agree w/other some posters' comment.

Just I'm here surprised, how much you spoke out of loud mouth and directly pointing finger toward to the poster's few past weeks ago!

 

[shel90]

Why are u pointing at deaf people for this issue? We have people from different countries here that have learned English as their 2nd language whether deaf or not. This is just giving me the impression that you have issues with deaf people who are part of the Deaf community?

I agree with other AD members here about this forum is for everyone from all over the world to come and discuss, learn things, or get support. If there are misunderstandings, just ask the person for clarification. If no luck, there is not much u can do and just move on. No point in beating a dead horse.

 

[Keanusmom]

Hahaha, Keanusmom; we recognize and confirm the cannonball warning shot across the bow! We will take heed!

I'm sure no one here will get me riled up enough to start slinging insults like Chinese stars. Plus I don't wanna be banned, so I will behave...

HERE!

 

[Keanusmom]

ROFL @ GalaxyAngel's sig pic!

HAHA! Good one!

 

[JeepGirl]

OHH.. I know what the problem is now... Audio doesn't SIGN! NO wonder why she doesn't understand the different cultures but her own! Who are you to JUDGE!?

 

[Tousi]

OHH.. I know what the problem is now... Audio doesn't SIGN! NO wonder why she doesn't understand the different cultures but her own! Who are you to JUDGE!?

She doesn't? Oh, wow...no wonder....

 

[Angel]

Because I come here to learn from people and enjoy camaraderie. I suspect the same is true for many people, that they come here to hang out rather than have a tutoring session. This is likely why people are not motivated to "fix" this problem but rather be accepted for who they are around here, as they are not in many aspects of their daily lives.

Exactly, Thank you!