Hydrogen Could Power Big Rigs

[Calvin]

Hydrogen Could Power Big Rigs

Sounds like it would help the environment, but the problem is that they're expensive. It probably takes years to get it common for truckers to get that kind of almost emission free trucks.

Any thoughts?

 

[Jiro]

ambitious goal but not ready for commercial purpose. keep on tryin', though!

 

[Calvin]

ambitious goal but not ready for commercial purpose. keep on tryin', though!

Yeah, like I pointed out it takes years - several years from now to make it common for commercial purposes. :P

I see your post in my other thread so that's why I created a new thread for more feedbacks and comments here

 

[Fozzy]

Also depends on the cost of the new technology. Look at Hybrid cars now. The cost of buying one out weights the fuel savings cost.

 

[Beowulf]

Fusion can power more than automotive engines. However, the whole infrastructure of the USA would need to be changed for it to be feasible. When will we get started?

 

[Foxrac]

It's nice thing to see new technology to replace the regular gasoline and diesel but slowly to change.

I'm forward to biofuel and hydrogen for main to replace the gasoline in next 40 years when oil is become more smaller then run out in eventually if current rate trends.
Oil depletion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jiro]

It's nice thing to see new technology to replace the regular gasoline and diesel but slowly to change.

I'm forward to biofuel and hydrogen for main to replace the gasoline in next 40 years when oil is become more smaller then run out in eventually if current rate trends.
Oil depletion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but we won't EVER run out of oil. Look at our old power sources - coal and tree. They're still here. So will oil. Most of oil depletion graphs are BASED on current trend... which is very misleading. The graph modeled after Hubbert peak theory is influential and shockingly accurate to this date... considering that his theory is over 50 years old. His fundamental theory continues to be true and unchallenged to this date.... saying that the most likely reason that gas will start peaking down is because of new resource, new technology, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using gas in 2020 and I wouldn't be surprised either if the mpg is more than 100 at that time.

IMO - Hydrogen is a poor choice for alternative fuel. biofuel? sure but they need to come up with efficient way to create it because it costs more than drilling for oil.

 

[Foxrac]

but we won't EVER run out of oil. Look at our old power sources - coal and tree. They're still here. So will oil. Most of oil depletion graphs are BASED on current trend... which is very misleading. The graph modeled after Hubbert peak theory is influential and shockingly accurate to this date... considering that his theory is over 50 years old. His fundamental theory continues to be true and unchallenged to this date.... saying that the most likely reason that gas will start peaking down is because of new resource, new technology, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using gas in 2020 and I wouldn't be surprised either if the mpg is more than 100 at that time.

IMO - Hydrogen is a poor choice for alternative fuel. biofuel? sure but they need to come up with efficient way to create it because it costs more than drilling for oil.

I'm not taking your story until you find information but you never know if graph based on oil depletion could be true and many oil countries, including OPEC would unable to keep produce at max in next decade and leading oil to become more expensive, also demand is reason for China and India use more oil now.

2020 isn't far to make difference, we would still use gas but percent of oil consumption (in USA) would decline as alternative fuel is increases but right now, alternative fuel isn't cheaper due lacks of research and too new for us to replace.

Coal will last so very longer than oil does.

 

[Jiro]

I'm not taking your story until you find information but you never know if graph based on oil depletion could be true and many oil countries, including OPEC would unable to keep produce at max in next decade and leading oil to become more expensive, also demand is reason for China and India use more oil now.

the information's right there in the link you gave me. See "Hubert Peak Theory" or "Hubert Oil Peak." I merely clarify things for you in laymen term. It's all part of growing dynamic. The growing country (like China and India) consumes the resource the most but when it becomes well-developed nations like USA... it starts to peak off.

The Hubert's graph remains true and accurate for 50+ years. Tell me that's not "you never know"

2020 isn't far to make difference, we would still use gas but percent of oil consumption (in USA) would decline as alternative fuel is increases but right now, alternative fuel isn't cheaper due lacks of research and too new for us to replace.

yes but look at how much advancement we went thru for the past 10 years. Now that's a very short time for huge technological leap. I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using gas in 2020 with at least 120 mpg. It's all about what's practical and what's not..... at least for America. Japanese will probably go all electric/solar power.

Coal will last so very longer than oil does.

because we've already matured far ahead enough to make coal power efficient. Remember that time when we used to rely on coal and tree? it was SO BADLY polluted. Luckily enough.... we made a fast advancement to atomic/gas-powered age.... and the use of coal/tree dropped rapidly. But mid-western USA are still using coal power plants.

 

[Foxrac]

the information's right there in the link you gave me. See "Hubert Peak Theory" or "Hubert Oil Peak." I merely clarify things for you in laymen term. It's all part of growing dynamic. The growing country (like China and India) consumes the resource the most but when it becomes well-developed nations like USA... it starts to peak off.

The Hubert's graph remains true and accurate for 50+ years. Tell me that's not "you never know"


yes but look at how much advancement we went thru for the past 10 years. Now that's a very short time for huge technological leap. I wouldn't be surprised if we're still using gas in 2020 with at least 120 mpg. It's all about what's practical and what's not..... at least for America. Japanese will probably go all electric/solar power.


because we've already matured far ahead enough to make coal power efficient. Remember that time when we used to rely on coal and tree? it was SO BADLY polluted. Luckily enough.... we made a fast advancement to atomic/gas-powered age.... and the use of coal/tree dropped rapidly. But mid-western USA are still using coal power plants.

Yup, it's more difficult to predict about what happen in 2050 and you are probably right about after China become developed country then oil consumption would peak, also I would expect China to make research on alternative fuel and implement the pollution control law to cut worst pollution in the world.

We still need use oil for other than gas, such as kerosene, asphalt, plastic and others, it is better to research on alternative fuel and other energy source now to defer the oil depletion to more future than in 2050.

I think it would be very long for majority of population to use energy efficient vehicles, maybe 10 years after research has become mainstream.

For coal power plants, I don't have much idea for midwestern USA to use coal but in IL, they have alot of nuclear power plant, also you are right about technology on coal has greatly improved and more maturity.

I'm not live in IL anymore, just moved to southeast US in last Dec due climate and personal reason.

 

[Babyblue]

Oil is the reason!

We can go cheaper if they REALLY want to go green.

Meaning the ones that truly building a car to save the ozone layer.


IMO.

 

[Jiro]

Yup, it's more difficult to predict about what happen in 2050 and you are probably right about after China become developed country then oil consumption would peak, also I would expect China to make research on alternative fuel and implement the pollution control law to cut worst pollution in the world.

We still need use oil for other than gas, such as kerosene, asphalt, plastic and others, it is better to research on alternative fuel and other energy source now to defer the oil depletion to more future than in 2050.

I think it would be very long for majority of population to use energy efficient vehicles, maybe 10 years after research has become mainstream.

there are already energy-efficient vehicles available everywhere and it's cheap... it doesn't have to be Prius. and Just look at the Hubert's graph and it's going exactly as he predicted. I'm no fan of wikipedia but it seems ok for now because Hubbert Theory is quite confusingly complicated to understand in details unless you're pretty good with economic & its paradoxes. short story - oil is NOT likely to run out and there will be plenty of oil for next several hundred years.... because we will have better and better drilling method & technology to maximize the oil extraction efficiency rate... and also better discovery technology to find oil field.

For coal power plants, I don't have much idea for midwestern USA to use coal but in IL, they have alot of nuclear power plant, also you are right about technology on coal has greatly improved and more maturity.

I'm not live in IL anymore, just moved to southeast US in last Dec due climate and personal reason.

not IL. It's got Chicago and access to shipping ports... meaning they can easily get a large amount of oil cheaply by oil tankers. I mean the states like Montana, Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska (correct me if I'm wrong)... why pay more to bring in oil via trucks/trains when you have plenty of coals around? That's why they still use coal power plants. see below - it's a map of locations of nuclear power plants. Notice that mid-western states have nearly no nuclear power plants? why bother if you got cheap coals.

 

[sequoias]

Hydrogen powered semi truck? Hmmm, they need to do better than that. Magnetic powered, biodiesel, sugar cane diesel, the list goes on. We can't afford to pay expensive alternative fuels which we need to switch over in less time, not 50 years...or so. It took only 10 years to switch from steam powered trains to diesel trains due to huge advantages.

 

[purplecatty]

sheesh Jiro and Foxtac, u'll need to do pistol duel to decide who's right. no offense.
I am well aware that we may have depleted oil less than 100 years since China and other countries are catching up transportation today, remmy China have billions of people in their country. If each families have own car, wish our Earth good luck!

Yes, oil have many uses such as medical, manufacturing goods, heating fuel and many more. Go and figure at the rate in 20 years, once China and other countries finally caught up. It's not gonna be good unless we do something to curb the rate of oil usage by providing Green power. It would be wonderful news.

As for big rigs run on Hydrogen, nice idea. If driver ever runs out of bottled water during desert run, he can always put water bottle on exhaust and fill em up then continue to travel.

Personally, I would rather go for nuke to power the rig if Military finally reveal secret on how they ran nuke for 25 years without maintenance. So that there won't be needing fuel stop except rest stop.

Culda run home on little backyard nuke power without hassle to use Solar, wind, and hydropower.

Personally, I would prefer one that runs without using nuke,solar, wind, and water.
Catty.

 

[Foxrac]

there are already energy-efficient vehicles available everywhere and it's cheap... it doesn't have to be Prius. and Just look at the Hubert's graph and it's going exactly as he predicted. I'm no fan of wikipedia but it seems ok for now because Hubbert Theory is quite confusingly complicated to understand in details unless you're pretty good with economic & its paradoxes. short story - oil is NOT likely to run out and there will be plenty of oil for next several hundred years.... because we will have better and better drilling method & technology to maximize the oil extraction efficiency rate... and also better discovery technology to find oil field.


not IL. It's got Chicago and access to shipping ports... meaning they can easily get a large amount of oil cheaply by oil tankers. I mean the states like Montana, Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska (correct me if I'm wrong)... why pay more to bring in oil via trucks/trains when you have plenty of coals around? That's why they still use coal power plants. see below - it's a map of locations of nuclear power plants. Notice that mid-western states have nearly no nuclear power plants? why bother if you got cheap coals.

Ok, just like I said, it's difficult to predict about oil in future and you are right about technologies on explore of oil is much better.

I wasn't understand about what are you talking then got it now and yup, I did noticed about no nuclear power plants in some regions.

I have mixed feeling about nuclear power plant, also I think coal is used as market price like oil did?

In my area, they use coal for electricity.

 

[Foxrac]

sheesh Jiro and Foxtac, u'll need to do pistol duel to decide who's right. no offense.
I am well aware that we may have depleted oil less than 100 years since China and other countries are catching up transportation today, remmy China have billions of people in their country. If each families have own car, wish our Earth good luck!

Yes, oil have many uses such as medical, manufacturing goods, heating fuel and many more. Go and figure at the rate in 20 years, once China and other countries finally caught up. It's not gonna be good unless we do something to curb the rate of oil usage by providing Green power. It would be wonderful news.

As for big rigs run on Hydrogen, nice idea. If driver ever runs out of bottled water during desert run, he can always put water bottle on exhaust and fill em up then continue to travel.

Personally, I would rather go for nuke to power the rig if Military finally reveal secret on how they ran nuke for 25 years without maintenance. So that there won't be needing fuel stop except rest stop.

Culda run home on little backyard nuke power without hassle to use Solar, wind, and hydropower.

Personally, I would prefer one that runs without using nuke,solar, wind, and water.
Catty.

We aren't argue but just discuss about something.

 

[Secretblend]

sheesh Jiro and Foxtac, u'll need to do pistol duel to decide who's right. no offense.
I am well aware that we may have depleted oil less than 100 years since China and other countries are catching up transportation today, remmy China have billions of people in their country. If each families have own car, wish our Earth good luck!

Yes, oil have many uses such as medical, manufacturing goods, heating fuel and many more. Go and figure at the rate in 20 years, once China and other countries finally caught up. It's not gonna be good unless we do something to curb the rate of oil usage by providing Green power. It would be wonderful news.

As for big rigs run on Hydrogen, nice idea. If driver ever runs out of bottled water during desert run, he can always put water bottle on exhaust and fill em up then continue to travel.

Personally, I would rather go for nuke to power the rig if Military finally reveal secret on how they ran nuke for 25 years without maintenance. So that there won't be needing fuel stop except rest stop.

Culda run home on little backyard nuke power without hassle to use Solar, wind, and hydropower.

Personally, I would prefer one that runs without using nuke,solar, wind, and water.
Catty.

It appears we aren't too far from that;

Mini nuclear plants to power 20,000 homes | Environment | The Observer

 

[Jiro]

Hydrogen powered semi truck? Hmmm, they need to do better than that. Magnetic powered, biodiesel, sugar cane diesel, the list goes on. We can't afford to pay expensive alternative fuels which we need to switch over in less time, not 50 years...or so. It took only 10 years to switch from steam powered trains to diesel trains due to huge advantages.

that's the thing. why think about new, expensive technology when you already have a technology that can be improved to reach its maximum efficiency rate? meaning - you've reached to the point of no further technological advancement.

For ie - our gas-powered car needs to consume 15 gallons to reach 500 miles. if we keep improving to maximize its fuel efficiency rate.... it'll probably can get to 900 miles on 15 gallons. Who knows? Add in hybrid technology (half battery/half gas)... could get up to 2,000 miles! Who knows who knows?

 

[Jiro]

Ok, just like I said, it's difficult to predict about oil in future and you are right about technologies on explore of oil is much better.

yes but my whole fundamental point on this issue is that the question is NOT when the oil will run out but when WILL the new power source comes in. Obviously - we're not going to stay on gas-powered engines for a very long time. You've already noticed in the history that the source of power for automobile changes very rapidly. It went from battery to steam to diesel to natural gas in a very very very short time! and now we have cars running on water, solar power, hybrid, biofuel, etc... That's why I said that the economic theory especially Hubbert Peak Oil Theory is complicated to understand because it's full of paradox. and so far.... since 1956, the world has already gone as according to Hubbert Oil Peak Graph... As predicted by Hubbert - the investment in conventional oil production will start declining at 2020. It's all about economic interest - "the energy returned on energy invested" (EROEI) - the profits yielded by alternative fuel technology is greater than profits yielded by conventional gas.

Simply put... well-developed nations like Europe, USA, Japan, Korea, Australia, etc will advance forward soon to either a newer source of power or a more efficient technology. In old time - our mpg was probably like 10 mpg. Now... it's around 20-40 mpg.. 2020? probably 400 mpg.

Growing nations like India and China which take up major portion of world populations is not really a big concern for me because of the persistent poverty. Like what purplecatty said - if majority of Chinese and Indian own a car... we're fucked!!! and our oil will run out in just matter of couple decades or much less! More than half of their populations are too poor to own automobiles but most have motorcycles/scooters and a better mass transit systems. There's no point in owning automobiles anyway if their cities are too crowdy anyway. Their governments have already enforced strict environmental laws. I doubt more than 15% of their populations can buy automobiles. According to statistic -

China = 1,330,044,544 people

China had 159,777,589 motor vehicles by the end of 2007, including 56,967,765 cars, 87,096,613 motorcycles, and 869,124 trailers. There were 163,887,372 drivers of motor vehicles and riders of motorcycles, including 107,087,137 car drivers. The number of motor vehicles in the country last year increased by 14,548,595 units, or 10.2%, over 2006, according to the Chinese government’s latest statistics.

meaning.... only 8% of Chinese population are car drivers. It is unlikely it will ever get above 15% by 2020. That's why it's easy to mistakenly assume that China and India will automatically become like USA... and they'll all own a 2-floor houses with sizable green garden with at least 2 cars. That's not likely to happen in China and India. That's why it's not of a concern for me because it's just the way it is. They will never be like America. They do not have expansive territory like USA and it is highly likely that China and India will have far better mass transit system than USA. Beside.... china and India will be using cars with alternative fuel technology if it's widespread in developed nations. If not.. it doesn't matter anyway because the well-developed nations will consume less and less oil.

As for now in 2008 -
USA = 20.8 billion of oil barrels by day
Europe = 14.6 billion
China = 6.9 billion
Japan = 5.4 billion
India = 2.4 billion

2020 - (i'm gonna just guess)
USA = 12 billion
Europe = 8 billion
China = 12 billion
Japan = 3 billion
India = 4 billion

this is getting more confusing as I explain more and I'm getting confused myself too! That's why I'm not an economic expert! but it's the best I can understand so far..... and this is barely a scratch of the surface. How depressing....

I wasn't understand about what are you talking then got it now and yup, I did noticed about no nuclear power plants in some regions.

I have mixed feeling about nuclear power plant, also I think coal is used as market price like oil did?

In my area, they use coal for electricity.

that's all the coal is used for. electricity and well to heat up your homes. I have a mixed feeling about nuclear power plant too but hey... it's at least... a bit more environmentally friendly compared to other power plants because of its better efficiency rate but with one major drawback.... a questionable way of disposing its hazardous waste product. Hell... what are we complaining about? every kinds of power plants have its major drawback and they all polluted.

 

[purplecatty]

Let's cross our finger that they will stick with Green energy since USA and other countries have not learned lesson from 1973 Oil crisis. :roll:

Catty