How does syntax work in ASL signing?

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TinyAttentionSp

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Again, I'm very new, but so far, the sign sentences I've learned are things like, "I N-A-M-E. I Learn-learn sign." stuff like that. Are there sign sentences that reflect English syntax, like, "I'm going to the movies" Rather than something like, "I go movie"? Am I right in assuming ASL more of a symbol language, where you indicate or symbolize rather than name, describe, put together sentences, etc? know what i mean? sorry to be rude if i am!
 
I am going to take a stab to answer your question. According to your question, you want to know if there is a sign mode for English? Yes, there is such mode called S.E.E. (Signed Exact English) its not considered an ASL language its a method to communicate in English using sign language. You can sign an entire English sentence such as I am going to the movies, I am going to the store and so on.
There are books that teach this mode.
For ASL, its got its own syntax (word order) and grammar. If I am not mistaken, ASL is Object-Subject-Verb and it can change (anyone correct me if I am wrong here).
You have non manual which include facial expression. With a negative feeling, purse lips and the negative expression the face.

When asking rhetorical questions, who, what, why , where non manuals eyebrow raise, body tilt forward and sometime shoulders rise.
Yes/No eyebrows squint, eyes widen, and head tilt to one side. (Anything missing feel free to add, anyone)

I hope this helps in a nutshell =)
 
This actually really does help. xD I guess I need to read farther, because I never realized there was a pattern. I wonder if SEE is easier than ASL... huh.
 
SEE might be easier to understand, for those of us whose predominant language is English, but SEE takes a lot longer to sign because you are signing each and every word. ASL skips all the articles (?) like a, an, the, etc. and flows much faster to get the thought across. But, I know for me, learning the grammar and syntax of ASL is hard to get used to. There is also PSE (Pidgen Signed English) which uses the order of English, but is more like ASL in that it skips all the a, an, the, etc. But SEE and PSE are NOT true languages. ASL is.
 
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TinyAttentionSp said:
This actually really does help. xD I guess I need to read farther, because I never realized there was a pattern. I wonder if SEE is easier than ASL... huh.
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SEE is not a language, period.

ASL is the language of the Deaf and I must say you are setting yourself up to failure if you are going to learn SEE. You'll only have much more misunderstandings with Deaf people and you'll only do much better with ASL.

Be patient with the classifiers and with ASL, you do need to be patient.
 
From one ASL student to another, it may seem confusing at first especially the first few lessons but I promise you it gets easier after awhile. I've found myself using some signs while speaking even (completely on accident!). ASL is a beautiful language and stick to it! You'll love it :)
 
Learning SEE might be easier in the short run but long term it will hinder your learning ASL. You will have to "unlearn" a lot of SEE before you can learn ASL, and that will just confuse you and slow down your acquisition of ASL. It's better to learn ASL first. You can always add SEE signing later if you need it for educational interpreting. In fact, my terp program taught us ASL interpreting first, then SEE transliterating second. As a terp, you should eventually learn not just ASL, but SEE and PSE/MCE so you can provide your clients with whatever mode they prefer.
 
At first I tried learning ASL by signing in S.E.E. When I read the ASL book last week, I realized that it has a similar format to that of spanish which surprised me. Since I have taken spanish last year, I hope that the experience I have will come into play as I learn more ASL.

Signing is awesome!
 
Do all you can to separate your thinking from English and instead learn how things are expressed in ASL.

I'm learning Turkish sign but unfortunately what we're being taught is more like "Signed Pidgin Turkish." (There is no Signed Exact Turkish and I'd shudder to think of trying to sign that way, it would be exhausting). So I'm trying to keep "unlearning" it as we go by talking to deaf people as much as I can.

Turkish sign (I only know a very little ASL but I suspect there are similar examples) uses facial expression for many things in place of actual "word" signs; for example, there is no discrete sign for "can/be able to." If you want to say "I didn't do it, because I couldn't do it," you would sign:

I do not, reason do not.
[raised eyebrows] [2x, with neg. frustrated expression]

You might even be able to get away with leaving out that second "not", because you've expressed the inability/frustration and negativity with your face.

You could sign somthing in pidgin but you'd have to either "talk around" it to get the real meaning (which is cumbersome) or leave out an important part of the concept (inefficient). But it really is pidgin, because it's missing half the information: remaining attached to spoken language syntax and words, you would be missing out on all those visual and spatial cues. You'd have trouble really understanding people speaking true TSL (or, I suspect, ASL as well), and become accustomed to expressing yourself fully in sign.

I have this lasting image in my mind here - 8 people sitting in a row learning the sign for "smile," and signing it with glum, deadpan faces. ;) And the teacher saying "what the hell was that?! Are you talking about smiling or about a funeral?"
 
kipourgos said:
I have this lasting image in my mind here - 8 people sitting in a row learning the sign for "smile," and signing it with glum, deadpan faces. ;) And the teacher saying "what the hell was that?! Are you talking about smiling or about a funeral?"
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:laugh2: that is SO true! You see maybe over half the class with non-expressive faces and then the few who actually do try to with emotion.
 
would it be right to sign something like this when saying "i am going to the movies."?
to say "i go (sign i, n, g) to movies.
while i understand that things like "am" and "the" are not necessary i was wondering about the "ing" part. it would be fine to sign "ing" right. in my text books it said that was fine but is not as common in the deaf community.

i also read that in an educational setting that a teacher, if he or she wanted to say "would" that the teacher would sign "will" and then sign a "d" to indicate the word "would."
but that this is not as common among deaf adults.

or "ran" instead of "run" would you use the word "past" before the word "run" to indicate past tense.
i am curios to know what you guys think about this. it would help me alot, since i am teaching myself from books and im not in a class.
 
Signing the "ing" and word endings, from what I know, is very English, and is not ASL. You should try to find a good ASL Grammar book from your Library.

It is hard learning this from just books, but learning how ASL grammar works will help you a lot. I've been teaching myself from books and videos as well. Luckily I have made a few friends in the Deaf community and that has helped a lot! I also got several good books from Amazon.com that explain ASL Grammar.

God Bless!
 
zoomzipboom said:
would it be right to sign something like this when saying "i am going to the movies."?
to say "i go (sign i, n, g) to movies.
while i understand that things like "am" and "the" are not necessary i was wondering about the "ing" part. it would be fine to sign "ing" right. in my text books it said that was fine but is not as common in the deaf community.

i also read that in an educational setting that a teacher, if he or she wanted to say "would" that the teacher would sign "will" and then sign a "d" to indicate the word "would."
but that this is not as common among deaf adults.

or "ran" instead of "run" would you use the word "past" before the word "run" to indicate past tense.
i am curios to know what you guys think about this. it would help me alot, since i am teaching myself from books and im not in a class.
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If you're learning how to sign in order to communicate socially with deaf people, you don't need to get involved with what teachers use in educational settings. It will just make it more confusing for you.

In your example sentence, "I am going to the movies," you have to be more clear about what you mean. Do you mean you are currently on the way to the movies, or that you will be going to the movies later, or are you going to the movies continually? That is, is the full thought, "I am going to the movies now" or "I am going to the movies after school" or "I am going to the movies every day this summer"? Each "going" would be signed differently. Just adding an "-ing" to "GO" would make the meaning as clear as mud.
 
hutt5asl,
asl grammar books, thanks! i didn't know they made books specifically for this. :) now i know. thanks.

i am learning from lifeprints.com and aslpro.com too. i have found these very helpful too, and watching asl videos on youtube. i just learned about the comedians The CODA Brothers and this has helped a whole lot as well. :) it is nice to be learning signs while laughing and having a good time. :) have you heard of them? they are pretty funny. :)
 
Reba said:
If you're learning how to sign in order to communicate socially with deaf people, you don't need to get involved with what teachers use in educational settings. It will just make it more confusing for you.

In your example sentence, "I am going to the movies," you have to be more clear about what you mean. Do you mean you are currently on the way to the movies, or that you will be going to the movies later, or are you going to the movies continually? That is, is the full thought, "I am going to the movies now" or "I am going to the movies after school" or "I am going to the movies every day this summer"? Each "going" would be signed differently. Just adding an "-ing" to "GO" would make the meaning as clear as mud.
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clear as mud, ha well we don't want that.
and no i am not going to the movies continualy haha. :D

well if i leaving the house to go to the movie, i could just say:
"i go to movie now"

right?

or if it was later i could say:
"i go to movie later."

or if i was on my way to the movie i could say:
"i on way to movie."

or if it was going to be every day this summer would it be:
"i will go to movie every day this summer."

or if it was past tense would it be:
"i past go to movie."

are these right? or pretty close at least?
:)
 
zoomzipboom said:
hutt5asl,
asl grammar books, thanks! i didn't know they made books specifically for this. :) now i know. thanks.

i am learning from lifeprints.com and aslpro.com too. i have found these very helpful too, and watching asl videos on youtube. i just learned about the comedians The CODA Brothers and this has helped a whole lot as well. :) it is nice to be learning signs while laughing and having a good time. :) have you heard of them? they are pretty funny. :)
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ASLPro is a good place but there are some signs that are not the same as what I had learned from my teacher in an ASL class (who is deaf). So don't put all your trust into websites. If you can, learn from people who use the language. -ING is very English. If you don't know a word, don't bother fingerspelling out the ending, like say you didn't know the word driving. Just fingerspell "drive" or any root word. It's a lot more fun to learn from people anyhow.
 
I recommend this book for ASL grammar:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/American-Language-Teachers-Resource-Grammar/dp/093032384X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250141861&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: American Sign Language Green Books, A Teacher's Resource Text on Grammar and Culture (American Sign Language Series) (9780930323844): Charlotte Baker-Shenk, Dennis Cokely: Books[/ame]


(Don't worry about the "teachers" part of the title.)
 
zoomzipboom said:
hutt5asl,
asl grammar books, thanks! i didn't know they made books specifically for this. :) now i know. thanks.
The two I have are American Sign Language The Easy Way and The American Sign Language Phrase Book. I felt the 2nd one especially, was very good at showing how easily a thought can be expressed in ASL. They both got quite high ratings on Amazon.com, and I like both books very much. I haven't tried the Teacher's 'Green' book (yet) that was also mentioned, but that one also got high ratings on Amazon.

In the sentences you mentioned, you were including the word "to" and it is not needed. "I go movies later", "I go movies now", "Summer I go movies everyday". (I hope I'm telling you correctly) Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :aw: I'm still learning, too!

And yes, I use YouTube a lot to view videos. The more I learn, the more I can understand when I'm reading someone else's signing.

God Bless!
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Hutt5asl said:
...In the sentences you mentioned, you were including the word "to" and it is not needed. "I go movies later", "I go movies now", "Summer I go movies everyday". (I hope I'm telling you correctly) Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :aw: I'm still learning, too!
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If you're referring to the sentences I posted, I didn't intend for them to be glossed versions of ASL signing. I was only giving you the English conceptual meanings. If I were glossing the sentences I wouldn't include the "to", and I would change the sentence structures.

If I gloss phrases or words, I use all caps to represent signs. :)

Sorry for the confusion.
 
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