Gun control

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seb said:
Yes, but the discussion of this thread is gun control. So far there has been no gun control measures put in place in decades and what is in place right now is clearly not working since we have had at least 377 mass shootings in the U.S. so far this year.
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Europe (domestic/international) terrorism didn't need guns, they use bombs as weapon and cause more death quicker than guns. If USA outlaws guns... then we'd see bombings or other weapon used for mass murder.

Take a look at Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe (scroll down for Deadleist Incidents")
 
Calvin said:
Europe (domestic/international) terrorism didn't need guns, they use bombs as weapon and cause more death quicker than guns. If USA outlaws guns... then we'd see bombings or other weapon used for mass murder.

Take a look at Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe (scroll down for Deadleist Incidents"
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Hell the Boston Bomb..... they will make them out of anything, to do the maximum amount of damage....A piece of paper is a deadly weapon.
 
sonocativo said:
Hell the Boston Bomb..... they will make them out of anything, to do the maximum amount of damage....A piece of paper is a deadly weapon.
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Yes, pressure cooker to send shrapnel flying to cause more injury/death.... fertilizer (Tim McVeigh) to name a couple.
 
sonocativo said:
isn't that what they do for every gun you buy, every time? Last I checked it was. You don't just walk in and walk out, they call it in, your info is verified and checked, the guns serial number is given to them then the dealer is given an ok and a clearance number they write on the application, then youre allowed to purchase that specific gun. NOW if you are purchasing MULTIPLE guns then a red flag is thrown and the ATF/FBI are liable to show up at your door to investigate you.... its all in the rules and regulations in case you didn't know that.
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You do know what they check don't you? All the rest they basically take your word for it.
 
Calvin said:
Yes, pressure cooker to send shrapnel flying to cause more injury/death.... fertilizer (Tim McVeigh) to name a couple.
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And how many pressure cooker bombs have been set off this year in the US? After McVeigh the federal govt. put in place checks that would keep a bombing like that from happening again and to my knowledge there hasn't been another one in the U.S.
 
sonocativo said:
Hell the Boston Bomb..... they will make them out of anything, to do the maximum amount of damage....A piece of paper is a deadly weapon.
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How many mass murders have been done using a piece of paper? Heck, how many murders have been done using a piece of paper? Has there been 377 mass murder bombings in the U.S. this year like we have had shootings?
 
This is from the site where the 377 figure comes from:

We define a mass shooting to be an incident of violence in which 4 or more people are shot. We do not consider the motive of the shooter, or whether he or she shot up a school, workplace or street corner. Our mission is to record all incidents of mass gun violence. We include the shooter's death because suicide matters and means matter. Ignoring the shooter's death is not logically consistent with research that tracks the death toll of firearm suicides in our society.

This is an unfunded, crowd-sourced effort, which means errors can and will be introduced.

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data
 
seb said:
- Perhaps go to a licensing requirement where you have to get checked out every so many years like you do to drive a car.
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More infringement of rights, red-tape, expense, time, and still ineffective for those years in-between checking out periods.

One thing people forget about when increasing the cost of gun ownership is that the wealthy (good and bad) will always be able to get what they want. It's the average citizen who will be priced out of self protection and Second Amendment rights. It's kind of like how the poll tax of the past kept poor black citizens from their right to vote.

- AR weapons since they seem to be the weapons of choice of these mass shooters.
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What are the statistics on that?

What's to stop killers from switching to another weapon?

What's to stop killers from acquiring AR weapons (as you call them) from illegal sources?

What would stop legislatures from adding on more guns to their banned lists?


- Honest law abiding citizens would still be able to buy guns, just not AR's.
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So, the honest law-abiding citizens would be at the mercy of the dishonest law-breaking citizens who can get AR's.

No thanks.
 
Reba said:
More infringement of rights, red-tape, expense, time, and still ineffective for those years in-between checking out periods.

One thing people forget about when increasing the cost of gun ownership is that the wealthy (good and bad) will always be able to get what they want. It's the average citizen who will be priced out of self protection and Second Amendment rights. It's kind of like how the poll tax of the past kept poor black citizens from their right to vote.


What are the statistics on that?

What's to stop killers from switching to another weapon?

What's to stop killers from acquiring AR weapons (as you call them) from illegal sources?

What would stop legislatures from adding on more guns to their banned lists?



So, the honest law-abiding citizens would be at the mercy of the dishonest law-breaking citizens who can get AR's.

No thanks.
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Yes, but we are talking about a deadly weapon and if we want to keep them out of people who are mentally not there, some sacrifice is going to be needed.
So you are okay with innocent people being killed by crazy people with guns since you want nothing put in place that will infringe on you buying and using any gun you want. As of last Sunday there has been 377 mass shootings in the U.S. something clearly has to be done to drastically reduce it. So exactly how would you go about reducing the carnage if you're not okay with the mass shootings?
 
Calvin said:
Europe (domestic/international) terrorism didn't need guns, they use bombs as weapon and cause more death quicker than guns. If USA outlaws guns... then we'd see bombings or other weapon used for mass murder.

Take a look at Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe (scroll down for Deadleist Incidents")
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So you say leave things as they are and let crazy people have guns so they can continue these mass shootings. Nobody is talking about outlawing all guns. I don't know where you got that one. Regarding bombings: the U.S. has put more things in place over the last 20 years to keep bombings such as OK and they do sweeps prior to events and screen people before they go into sporting events, etc.
 
Reba said:
2008 – JANUARY
In a move supported by both opponents and advocates of gun control laws, President Bush signed the National Instant Criminal Background Check Improvement Act requiring gun buyer background checks to screen for legally declared mentally ill individuals, who are ineligible to buy firearms.
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And how exactly are they doing this other than asking if you are mentally ill? Since there is no national database that tells someone that somebody has been declared legally mentally ill because of patient confidentiality laws this is a law that has no teeth. So for this to work they have to put in place laws that make it mandatory for doctors and hospitals to put patients names into another national database that lists who are mentally ill. Also to be legally mentally ill it takes a court order, so those people who the medical establishment knows are mentally ill, unless they are legally required to go to court and have them declared as so, you will have a lot of crazy people slipping through the cracks.
 
seb said:
Yes, but we are talking about a deadly weapon and if we want to keep them out of people who are mentally not there, some sacrifice is going to be needed.
So you are okay with innocent people being killed by crazy people with guns since you want nothing put in place that will infringe on you buying and using any gun you want. As of last Sunday there has been 377 mass shootings in the U.S. something clearly has to be done to drastically reduce it. So exactly how would you go about reducing the carnage if you're not okay with the mass shootings?
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Obviously you're obnoxious and irrational. Nobody here said it's okay to kill innocent people nor mass shootings. No place is safe anywhere in the world with deadly weapon... NOT just guns... there is plenty of deadly weapons out there. Don't take the words out of their mouth.
 
Calvin said:
Obviously you're obnoxious and irrational. Nobody here said it's okay to kill innocent people nor mass shootings. No place is safe anywhere in the world with deadly weapon... NOT just guns... there is plenty of deadly weapons out there. Don't take the words out of their mouth.
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I agree with you, there are plenty of deadly weapons out there, but the thread we are currently responding to is about gun control and how to stop these crazy people who are allowed to buy guns and then go out and shoot innocent people. It has nothing to do or is it asking how to deal with any other type of deadly weapon control. How exactly am I being irrational? What part of what I am saying is illogical or not reasonable? I'm pretty sure everyone but the people planning these mass shootings want them to stop, yet the people with the guns don't want anything put in their way of buying more guns or the type of weapons that these shooters seem to prefer. I don't think I'm the one being illogical! I'm also not bringing up other ways to commit mass murder in a thread that is titled GUN CONTROL, so exactly who is being obnoxious?
 
seb said:
And how many pressure cooker bombs have been set off this year in the US? After McVeigh the federal govt. put in place checks that would keep a bombing like that from happening again and to my knowledge there hasn't been another one in the U.S.
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please do explain exactly and precisely what is this "checks" you speak of.

yes we've had bombings including failed & intercepted bombings after McVeigh - NYC/NJ bombings, Boston Marathon bombing, failed car bomb in Times Square, several mosque bombings, several failed/incepted bombing plots in plane/building. I've posted links which you probably have conveniently ignored. oh don't forget 9/11 attacks and shoe bomber.
 
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