Gun control

[seb]

If everyone followed laws, really there wouldn't be any criminals and no need for laws , But criminals don't follow laws and laws wont stop them from being criminals either....

Sane people don't go out and buy a weapon with a high capacity magazine and then go into a church, movie theater, night club, hotel room on the 32nd floor etc. and try and kill all the people that are in the building or at the venue. They aren't criminals until after they have shot the place up, but most likely they are or were crazy prior to committing their crime, so we have to come up with a vetting process to separate the sane from the crazy people, so we don't sell deadly weapons to the crazy ones.

 

[seb]

If you know your guns and what they are capable of then you should know this. A deer rifle usually comes with a 5 or 10 shot mag. BUT you can buy modified mags holding 30-100 rounds for certain ones...even 100 round drums for pistols... then you have speed loaders with enough training you can do it blindfolded and shoot just as good as a semi ( youtube videos are out there ) Now if most law abiding citizens were armed and this fellow walked into that church or any building for that matter, he wouldn't have gotten as far as he did and its taking a gamble for a criminal to not know what he is walking into. Lets say he has an AR with a 30 round mag, and theres 200 members in church... 175 of them are armed... who is gonna walk out of there alive still? For a fact he wouldn't have killed as many as he did, maybe none if there was someone armed and seen him walk in with a rifle. Gun topics are a big debate, those who hate guns never agree to anything but they sure do call the Men in Blue who carry them when needed.....smh

If you have been following this thread you will know that I believe that high capacity magazines should also be outlawed in addition to AR type weapons. So now you are proposing everyone who enters a church should be armed? Should we have armed guards and metal detectors at the doors too? Kinda gets away from Christ's teachings doesn't it! If you keep the wackaloons from being able to buy these weapons in the first place, you end up with a lot less dead people.

 

[seb]

How many haven't? Recently there was a shooter, used a 30.06 or some other bolt rifle, had an AR in the trunk but never touched it.... AR's are just pretty to look at and draw attention. Just like trucks, they are so over rated and therefore cost 4 to 6 times more than a car. Now all these people running red lights and speeding in their shiny sport cars get more attention than trucks...why? because theyre called sport cars and fast looking, some designed after actual race cars.... why aren't they banned from the everyday driver who don't have the skills to drive something fast? hmmmm Bans can be said for lots of everyday common items, why aren't they? Right.......................

Most things in life aren't capable, when outfitted with the right accessories, to shoot over 600 people and kill 58 of them in less than 12 minutes now are they? Just how many of these mass shooters have as their weapon of choice a 30.06? Did the shooter in CO, did the shooter in LV, did the shooter in the TX, church? Before the proliferation of the AR weapons in our society, how many mass shootings did we have where 40, 50, 100 or even 600 people get shot?

 

[seb]

Because he was aiming, not just firing randomly. Theres a hughe difference there.

The point was that the time it took to get off the three shots was longer that the shots in Dallas took. In other words it takes longer to cycle the bolt and shoot than a semi automatic with a high capacity magazine or a bump stock; how many times can you pull the trigger in 5, 6 or 8 seconds? Also because you are shooting so many rounds in such a short time you don't really have to take aim, just point and shoot! Get the guns out of the crazy peoples hands and these shootings will once again become a very, very rare event.

 

[Jiro]

We aren't talking about drug crimes, robberies, road rages or car carnages, we are talking about gun control and how to stop nut burgers from being able to buy a gun such as an AR-15 (these peoples weapon of choice) and going out and killing a lot of innocent people.

please do tell me precisely and exactly how would you stop nut burgers from being able to buy a gun? please do tell me comprehensive gun control laws you have in mind. no do not tell me "extreme vetting" because it makes absolutely no sense. please do tell me exactly what is "extreme vetting"? how does one perform an "extreme vetting"?

 

[Jiro]

So you only want to only go after these people AFTER they have shot and killed a lot of innocent people. Again we are talking about gun control, not crime and punishment.

there's nothing we can do about it except to abolish guns and enact Thought Police with psychics, clairvoyant, crystal balls, etc.

 

[Jiro]

The point was that the time it took to get off the three shots was longer that the shots in Dallas took. In other words it takes longer to cycle the bolt and shoot than a semi automatic with a high capacity magazine or a bump stock; how many times can you pull the trigger in 5, 6 or 8 seconds? Also because you are shooting so many rounds in such a short time you don't really have to take aim, just point and shoot! Get the guns out of the crazy peoples hands and these shootings will once again become a very, very rare event.

our "comprehensive gun control laws" prohibit crazy people from owning/buying guns.

https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/NICS/index.html
http://www.search.org/mental-health-records-in-nics-increase-1491-over-the-past-decade/
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2013-operations-report

Federal Prohibitors

A deny decision indicates the prospective firearms transferee or another individual with a similar name and/or similar descriptive features was matched with either federally prohibiting criteria or state-prohibiting criteria. Federal law prohibits, from possessing or receiving a firearm, any person who:

18 U.S.C. §922 (g) (4)

Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;

Like I told you again and again... I'm fine with ANY gun control laws that focus on criminals, not law-abiding citizens. If you believe we should cast an extremely wide net with extremely loose legal definition on people with mental issue in any shape or form... go ahead by all means!

 

[Weshoulddo]

It is true, you can't guarantee that a sane person won't go insane. Bringing of guns should be controlled for everyone, not only for the mentally ill.

 

[TinCanSailor]

After reading all these posts, I have decided to put away my slow, short range 5 shot lever action Marlin 30.30.............................and break out my Bushmaster AR15 to go deer hunting this week. I don't have to worry about Reba............she still has her own AR15 for home defense.

 

[Reba]

They should not be in civilians hands. How many of the mass shooters have used an AR weapon to kill their victims?

Rifles were used a lot less than handguns. Of the rifles, they weren't all AR-type.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/


Since you asked, you must know the answer. How many (what percentage) of the mass shooters used AR-type weapons? (Please include a link to your source this time.)

 

[Reba]

- He himself has downplayed what he did.

Because he's humble--that's his motivation. What is your motivation?

He said he didn't stop the killing and he didn't do anything other than shoot at the guy as he came out of the church and gave chase as they called in the vehicles license and where it was headed to 911. Hopefully, this guy will not let the NRA and other peoples comments go to his head.

He prevented the shooter from continuing his rampage. His original target, the former in-laws weren't at church that day. He knew where they lived, and he had been directly threatening them. He had more guns and ammo left. He wasn't finished.

 

[Reba]

-Okay if you say so. I know what he said on the interview I watched.

I posted links and the content of my sources, including videos, transcripts, and original sources. Where are your sources? Where is the interview that you watched?

-In the interview I saw, he said he was behind a truck and engaged the shooter as he came out of the church, said he was sure he hit him at least once and then he and another driver gave chase. He also said he was "scared to death as the shooting unfolded."

Yes, that shows he knew what he was doing. He knew how to position himself to advantage, and he knew where he was aiming.

Being scared to death is reasonable. That doesn't mean he lost his professionalism or skill. Courage is acknowledging your fear and pushing on despite it. That's when your years of training and practice kick in.

 

[Reba]

So you're okay with crazy people owning guns, since they don't show up in the background checks since all they do is put your name in the criminal database and if no hit comes up, you get your gun. Makes a lot of sense to me!

You are judgmental and nonsensical. Really. There is no logic involved in the above statement.

 

[sonocativo]

So you only want to only go after these people AFTER they have shot and killed a lot of innocent people. Again we are talking about gun control, not crime and punishment.

No, stop them in their tracks. Called self defense.

 

[sonocativo]

Sane people don't go out and buy a weapon with a high capacity magazine and then go into a church, movie theater, night club, hotel room on the 32nd floor etc. and try and kill all the people that are in the building or at the venue. They aren't criminals until after they have shot the place up, but most likely they are or were crazy prior to committing their crime, so we have to come up with a vetting process to separate the sane from the crazy people, so we don't sell deadly weapons to the crazy ones.

They are criminals once they start plotting.

 

[sonocativo]

If you have been following this thread you will know that I believe that high capacity magazines should also be outlawed in addition to AR type weapons. So now you are proposing everyone who enters a church should be armed? Should we have armed guards and metal detectors at the doors too? Kinda gets away from Christ's teachings doesn't it! If you keep the wackaloons from being able to buy these weapons in the first place, you end up with a lot less dead people.

No. And even if they were someone would be making them in the black market...for..... yup criminals ! And so now ya gotta throw the high almighty in the mix.... nothing to do with them, just some wacko with a gun and a bunch of law abiding citizens enjoying there day. Then some wacko busts in the door and these innocents protecting themselves praying thank you for god watching over them and living to see another day and Mr wacko going to hell.

 

[sonocativo]

Most things in life aren't capable, when outfitted with the right accessories, to shoot over 600 people and kill 58 of them in less than 12 minutes now are they? Just how many of these mass shooters have as their weapon of choice a 30.06? Did the shooter in CO, did the shooter in LV, did the shooter in the TX, church? Before the proliferation of the AR weapons in our society, how many mass shootings did we have where 40, 50, 100 or even 600 people get shot?

Do you also know the AR is a hell of a lot cheaper than a deer rifle? That's one reason its their choice $300 for a basic model up to $1000 dressed on the AR's where a deer rifle starts $900-$3000... better made products cost more.

 

[sonocativo]

The point was that the time it took to get off the three shots was longer that the shots in Dallas took. In other words it takes longer to cycle the bolt and shoot than a semi automatic with a high capacity magazine or a bump stock; how many times can you pull the trigger in 5, 6 or 8 seconds? Also because you are shooting so many rounds in such a short time you don't really have to take aim, just point and shoot! Get the guns out of the crazy peoples hands and these shootings will once again become a very, very rare event.

Because they don't practice, or don't know the gun well enough,,,, Have you ever been to any gun competitions? Amazing what they can do with a revolver, bolt actions and lever actions because they know their gun, they practiced with it.... not just buy it off the shelf yesterday and go out today shooting up the saloon.... Put a 30 round mag on this and compare to a civilian AR...

 

[seb]

I posted links and the content of my sources, including videos, transcripts, and original sources. Where are your sources? Where is the interview that you watched?


Yes, that shows he knew what he was doing. He knew how to position himself to advantage, and he knew where he was aiming.

Being scared to death is reasonable. That doesn't mean he lost his professionalism or skill. Courage is acknowledging your fear and pushing on despite it. That's when your years of training and practice kick in.

As I said earlier, I don't remember which network I was watching.

As to his professionalism and skill; I seriously doubt he took the time to pick his target and shoot. More than likely, in the heat of battle he shot and luckily hit a spot with no body armor. I've known a number of cops who have been in shootouts and everyone of them have said they were scared to death and just continued to shoot at the suspect. One cop that I know with his partner were in a shootout with a suspect with them on one side of a car and the suspect on the other, after 56 shots and no hits, the suspect ran out of bullets and gave up. These guys were trained professionals, yet their years of training and practice produced zero hits! I think your fooling yourself and perhaps buying in to the NRA and mass media making this into something a lot more than what it is, or you've been watching too many movies.

Lets look at what a hero is: A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself. So lets se if he stacks up to the definition. Yes, he shot this mass murderer but only after he killed 26 people and wounded 20 others, but he stopped nothing, did he go into the church and save lives, no! After the confrontation the suspect was still was able to flea after being shot. Yes, the "hero" gave chase with another person calling in the suspects location, helping the police find the location after the suspect lost control of his car and overturned. The reports are saying the gunman then turned his gun on himself and killed himself. So he doesn't meet the definition of a hero, a true Hero actually stops something from happening or rescues someone or gives their life in the process, he did none of these things, he shot someone who had just killed 26 and wounded 20, nobody was saved, he just carried out justice on this deranged person.

Sadly if responsible gun legislation had been passed after 1999, we probably wouldn't be talking about this today because many of these shootings would never have taken place, but because we have a do nothing Congress, these shootings will continue on a fairly regular basis: more families will suffer, the President and the Congress will come out and say we need to pray for the victims and that will be it, until the next shooting and it will start all over, again. Sad, truly sad!

 

[seb]

Because they don't practice, or don't know the gun well enough,,,, Have you ever been to any gun competitions? Amazing what they can do with a revolver, bolt actions and lever actions because they know their gun, they practiced with it.... not just buy it off the shelf yesterday and go out today shooting up the saloon.... Put a 30 round mag on this and compare to a civilian AR...

The question is: how many mass shootings have happened where the shooter was using a bolt action rifle? There weapon of choice seems to be an AR. Yes, Paddock practiced and practiced, but that was probably to become proficient with the bump stock. So far there are no reports of Kelley practicing, he didn't need to, he was in a small church and just needed to point and shoot and for the little kids and babies he simply walked up and at point blank range pulled the trigger. Until we get gun control that actually does a thorough background check on the individual and can keep these weapons out of the crazy lunatics hands we will continue to have these shootings on a regular basis. We aren't talking about gun control but common sense but unfortunately I have learned that common sense is not all that common.