Gun control

[Jiro]

That was his link, not mine. Here is one that shows 90% of Americans are in favor of universal background checks for all firearm sales and one of the Gallup polls on gun control.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/

http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

thank you very much!

now that's a very specific, accurate statement. your statement "90% favors gun control law" was pretty vague and misleading. now I'm glad we got it all cleared up.

A background check for all gun sales is fine with me because it does not affect nor causes hardship to any law-abiding citizen from owning a gun and it keeps guns out of criminals. that's exactly how we want it.

I'm only against any kind of laws that makes it more difficult for a law-abiding citizen to own a gun because it makes no sense and it keeps guns out of law-abiding citizens and it keeps guns on criminals.

 

[Jiro]

You keep posting that law abiding citizens aren't the problem and if the guns were taken away only the outlaws would have guns. Nobody is talking about taking all guns away. The question I have asked you and Jiro over and over with no answer is where are these crooks getting their guns? I was hoping you would do some research and find out exactly where they are getting them. Well 56% are buying them from legal sources FFL's who carry a Federal Firearms License to legally sell guns, 15% get the guns as a gift, 10% borrow it, 8% traded for it, 5% say they stole the gun and the other 6% get it from straw sales. All in all 8% of the nations gun dealers sell the majority of guns used in the commission of a crime.

so are you saying that most of criminals get guns from law-abiding citizens?

 

[Foxrac]

Sorry your not going to change my mind about gun control. When you're talking about a weapon that can kill it needs to be regulated. This isn't the 1780's or even the 1880's anymore, today people are buying weapons that can kill or wound hundreds of innocent people in a matter of minutes and the brakes need to be put on. And as I said I'm not alone some polls have shown that almost 90% want gun control. And yes, I've heard it before; if you take away the guns from the law abiding citizens only the criminals will have guns and I have asked both Jiro and Reba where these guns they are getting are coming from and they don't seem to know or don't want to answer.

How? I'm not looking to change your mind. I just simply shared with you about liberal gunowners.

Jiro and Reba answered your questions but you didn't like their answers so I don't know how to help you.

I'm grateful that you aren't my father, otherwise, you will going to make me to stay in bedroom, or force me to discuss with you in great room about gun control laws.

 

[Jiro]

Sadly another mass shooting happened today in a Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas today, killing 26 and wounding 20 others. The shooter was identified as Devin Patrick Kelley a 26 year old Air Force vet who used a semi automatic rifle, wore a ballistic vest and fled the scene being chased by a neighbor who shot him and then gave chase as Mr, Kelley fled in his car. His car later crashed and Mr. Kelley was dead behind the wheel.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html

god bless law-abiding armed hero who stopped him.

so far... several mass shooting incidents were caused by veterans plus fired police officer. what's going on?

 

[Reba]

You keep posting that law abiding citizens aren't the problem

They aren't.

and if the guns were taken away only the outlaws would have guns.

That's right.

Nobody is talking about taking all guns away. The question I have asked you and Jiro over and over with no answer is where are these crooks getting their guns?

Crooks? I thought you wanted to know about specific mass shooters.

I was hoping you would do some research and find out exactly where they are getting them.

Until you give me some names, I can't research "they".

Well 56% are buying them from legal sources FFL's who carry a Federal Firearms License to legally sell guns, 15% get the guns as a gift, 10% borrow it, 8% traded for it, 5% say they stole the gun and the other 6% get it from straw sales. All in all 8% of the nations gun dealers sell the majority of guns used in the commission of a crime.

So, 56% of mass killers are directly buying legal guns from FFL's for using in their mass attacks? That's who we're discussing, right?

 

[seb]

so are you saying that most of criminals get guns from law-abiding citizens?

I'm saying they vast majority 56% of them, are getting their guns from licensed gun dealers.

 

[seb]

They aren't.
- Well 8% of licensed gun dealers are obviously a problem.

That's right.
- Only nobody is talking about taking away all your guns.

Crooks? I thought you wanted to know about specific mass shooters.
- Your statements in the past have been " if the law abiding citizens guns are taken away, only the criminals will have guns." I have always asked where are they getting their guns from and you have never given an answer.

Until you give me some names, I can't research "they".

-You don't have to worry about it or do the research, I did it for you and the answer is found in the numbers I provided.


So, 56% of mass killers are directly buying legal guns from FFL's for using in their mass attacks? That's who we're discussing, right?

No, we are talking about gun control and how and where these people are getting their weapons that they are using to commit crimes and what it's going to take to get them out of their hands. That's pretty much what the thread is about isn't it?

 

[Reba]

Sadly another mass shooting happened today in a Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas today, killing 26 and wounding 20 others. The shooter was identified as Devin Patrick Kelley a 26 year old Air Force vet who used a semi automatic rifle, wore a ballistic vest and fled the scene being chased by a neighbor who shot him and then gave chase as Mr, Kelley fled in his car. His car later crashed and Mr. Kelley was dead behind the wheel.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html

I wouldn't refer to the shooter as a vet--he was courtmartialed, busted, and discharged with a BCD. That's not honorable service. He was a convicted violent felon, and wasn't supposed to have a gun. I wouldn't use "Mr." with his name either.

"A spokesperson with the U.S. Air Force confirmed to Fox News that Kelley served in the military branch at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 until a bad conduct discharge in 2014.

He was court-martialed in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child, and when he was discharged received 12 months of confinement and a reduction in military rank."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/mass-shooting-reported-at-texas-sutherland-springs-church.html


It's a good thing the neighbor had his gun and used it.

 

[seb]

How? I'm not looking to change your mind. I just simply shared with you about liberal gunowners.
-That's good because you would not be successful.

Jiro and Reba answered your questions but you didn't like their answers so I don't know how to help you.

-What I received was canned NRA responses.

I'm grateful that you aren't my father, otherwise, you will going to make me to stay in bedroom, or force me to discuss with you in great room about gun control laws.

-Sorry that's not my style. I'm not a dictator, I can give you the information you need to make a decision but it's up to you to live your life. hopefully your parents have pointed you in the right direction as I hope I have with my children.

 

[Reba]

- Well 8% of licensed gun dealers are obviously a problem.

If they knowingly sell guns illegally, then yes, they're a problem. More "gun control" wouldn't change that.

- Only nobody is talking about taking away all your guns.

So, gun owners should be fine with the government taking some of their guns, and be satisfied with what's left behind? I don't think so.

- Your statements in the past have been " if the law abiding citizens guns are taken away, only the criminals will have guns." I have always asked where are they getting their guns from and you have never given an answer.

Yes, I did, but if you want to use your numbers, go ahead.

-You don't have to worry about it or do the research, I did it for you and the answer is found in the numbers I provided.

It would be nice if you would also give us the source of those numbers. I would like to see how they were calculated.

No, we are talking about gun control and how and where these people are getting their weapons that they are using to commit crimes and what it's going to take to get them out of their hands. That's pretty much what the thread is about isn't it?

Gun control won't prevent criminals from killing. What it's going to take to get them out of their hands? Arrest and incarcerate or execute the criminals. Leave the good people alone.

 

[seb]

I wouldn't refer to the shooter as a vet--he was courtmartialed, busted, and discharged with a BCD. That's not honorable service. He was a convicted violent felon, and wasn't supposed to have a gun. I wouldn't use "Mr." with his name either.

-Whether he was courtmartialed or not he still served in the United States Air Force. Time will tell how he got his weapons, but the fact remained that he had them and unfortunately, used them on innocent people and 26 people no longer are alive because of it.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/05/mass-shooting-reported-at-texas-sutherland-springs-church.html


It's a good thing the neighbor had his gun and used it.

- It's too bad he didn't use it earlier because the first call didn't come into the PD until 20 minutes after the shooting started. All I can say is he saved the taxpayers a lot of money, but we will probably never know what set him off.

 

[seb]

If they knowingly sell guns illegally, then yes, they're a problem. More "gun control" wouldn't change that.
Your contention is that these people are getting their guns illegally, well 56% of them are buying them from licensed dealers.

So, gun owners should be fine with the government taking some of their guns, and be satisfied with what's left behind? I don't think so.
- Then you will continue to see an ever increasing string of violent senseless shootings using weapons that shouldn't be in the hands of the public and certainly not in the hands of people who aren't mentally stable.

Yes, I did, but if you want to use your numbers, go ahead.


It would be nice if you would also give us the source of those numbers. I would like to see how they were calculated.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

Gun control won't prevent criminals from killing. What it's going to take to get them out of their hands? Arrest and incarcerate or execute the criminals. Leave the good people alone.

People have been killing each other since Cane and Abel, so you won't stop them, but giving them the weapons they need to kill 58 and wound 547 in less than 12 minutes or kill 26 and wound another 20 in a church is insanity.

 

[Reba]

- Then you will continue to see an ever increasing string of violent senseless shootings using weapons that shouldn't be in the hands of the public and certainly not in the hands of people who aren't mentally stable.

It's not the "public" committing these murders, so there's no reason to take guns from the "public." Take the illegal weapons from the crazies and criminals but leave the general public alone.

People have been killing each other since Cane and Abel, so you won't stop them, but giving them the weapons they need to kill 58 and wound 547 in less than 12 minutes or kill 26 and wound another 20 in a church is insanity.

Who is "giving" weapons to killers?

 

[seb]

It's not the "public" committing these murders, so there's no reason to take guns from the "public." Take the illegal weapons from the crazies and criminals but leave the general public alone.

- You can continue to bury your head in the sand, but it's basically impossible to take the weapons from the crazies without everyone having a comprehensive background check and a waiting period to enable those selling the weapons to find out and keep those who aren't mentally fit from being allowed to buy. The current background checks are basically a watered down worthless piece of paper. Not to mention a joke! And it's not the criminals who are committing these murders, They are part of the general public until they start shooting innocent people. I don't think any of the mass shooters have had a criminal past before committing their crimes.


Who is "giving" weapons to killers?

Obviously the sellers of firearms, since most of the mass killers have bought their weapons legally and 56% of criminals get their guns through legal means. Kinda puts a huge hole in the theory of gun advocates that everything is hunky dory regarding the criminal background checks and the purchase of firearms. One of these days the gun people are going to wake up and realize that hey, these things not only can kill bad people, but they also are being used to kill innocent civilians in large numbers by people who shouldn't have access to them!

 

[Foxrac]

-Sorry that's not my style. I'm not a dictator, I can give you the information you need to make a decision but it's up to you to live your life. hopefully your parents have pointed you in the right direction as I hope I have with my children.

What happen if my parents are gun supporters?

 

[Jiro]

- It's too bad he didn't use it earlier because the first call didn't come into the PD until 20 minutes after the shooting started. All I can say is he saved the taxpayers a lot of money, but we will probably never know what set him off.

we usually can. a disturbed murderer like him leaves a lot of clues and trails all over. just a matter of time till investigators piece them together.

so far - we know he was dishonorably discharged... had a history of violence... had a criminal history... those are red flags for background check. you cannot own/purchase a ballistic vest if you have a criminal history.

so how did he get his hands on those stuff? we'll find out.

 

[Jiro]

just saw this in FB. (top middle is the church shooter) - Devin Patrick Kelley

 

[seb]

What happen if my parents are gun supporters?

You probably will be one too! I have nothing against guns. What I have a problem as I have said repeatedly is AR type weapons with high capacity magazines, drums, trigger cranks, bump stocks, etc. These weapons have no place in society and are the weapons of choice for mass shooters who kill a lot of innocent civilians.

 

[seb]

we usually can. a disturbed murderer like him leaves a lot of clues and trails all over. just a matter of time till investigators piece them together.

so far - we know he was dishonorably discharged... had a history of violence... had a criminal history... those are red flags for background check. you cannot own/purchase a ballistic vest if you have a criminal history.

so how did he get his hands on those stuff? we'll find out.

And yet he was able to buy them! And according to reports, he bought them legally! So much for the current background checks! Don't you think it would be better to find these things out before he goes into a church and guns 46 innocent people down? Kinda like closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out! With the right kind of background checks a lot of these shootings probably would never happen. It would be better to have methods in the background checks to catch these people before they buy their guns and start killing innocent people.

 

[Jiro]

And yet he was able to buy them! And according to reports, he bought them legally! So much for the current background checks! Don't you think it would be better to find these things out before he goes into a church and guns 46 innocent people down? Kinda like closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out! With the right kind of background checks a lot of these shootings probably would never happen.

again.... we need to wait and let them investigate. did he buy gun with stolen identity? did gun store seller break the law? we don't know.