Gun control

[Jiro]

How many bombings have happened in the US since Boston?

4 bombs in NJ/NYC with pressure cooker and few months ago in Minnesota... a mosque got bombed

 

[Reba]

When they can start moving 2,500 feet per second!

At 6,000++++ pounds, empty, they don't need to move that fast. With a broader ramming surface, they can hit more than one person at a time, without pinpoint accuracy being required. With a capacity to carry many pounds of explosives, they can do even a lot more damage. Background check for a truck rental is a lot easier than for a gun. Trucks on a public street don't attract as much suspicion as a gun being carried on the street.

 

[Reba]

. . .

I can recall many incidents where cops have stopped/killed gun nuts including Las Vegas shooter.... but I cannot recall any incident where cop has stopped a vehicular killer till he crashes... do you?

Only in the movies.

 

[seb]

At 6,000++++ pounds, empty, they don't need to move that fast. With a broader ramming surface, they can hit more than one person at a time, without pinpoint accuracy being required. With a capacity to carry many pounds of explosives, they can do even a lot more damage. Background check for a truck rental is a lot easier than for a gun. Trucks on a public street don't attract as much suspicion as a gun being carried on the street.

With a truck victims at least have a possible chance of getting out of the way as many did on the bike path or in France as they saw the vehicle coming, If someone is shooting at you, you can't see it coming. OK bombing changed a lot of things in the U.S.. There are more checks put in place to keep people from buying the necessary materials needed to make a truck bomb than there is in the laughable background checks needed to buy a firearm, The only thing that is checked on buying a gun is they run your name through the criminal data base, all other questions they pretty much take you at your word. As I said earlier, each time one of these vehicle attacks happen new methods are put in place to stop future attacks; NYC has already installed or are installing concrete pillars at entry points to the bike paths in the city to keep some radical nut from doing what happened last week. With all the mass shootings in the U.S. nothing has been done to date to keep any of them from happening again and so far they have just escalated in scope and carnage. The last two years in the U.S. gun deaths have risen, in 2014, it was 11 deaths per 100,000 people, in 2015, the number had risen to 12 deaths per 100,000! Finally, where you live must be totally different than where I live, because I have never seen someone walking down the street carrying a gun! With a vehicular attack it all boils down to situational awareness and having a plan to escape if the unforeseen should happen, if someone is shooting at you it's pretty much out of your hands and up to the luck of the draw.

 

[seb]

and you missed the point. there are 10000000 other places to mow down people. pretty much every street are jammed with people at several locations during rush hour, afternoon, etc. and no it's not much easier to stop a homicidal killer behind the wheel. all they can do is wait till he crashes.

-And each one of these places can also have someone with a gun "mowing down" innocent civilians!

I can recall many incidents where cops have stopped/killed gun nuts including Las Vegas shooter.... but I cannot recall any incident where cop has stopped a vehicular killer till he crashes... do you?

-The truck driver in France was shot by police as he drove through the crowd and then killed after he stopped and got out of the cab.

Now let's get back on the topic of this thread which is GUN CONTROL!

 

[seb]

4 bombs in NJ/NYC with pressure cooker and few months ago in Minnesota... a mosque got bombed

Can you provide links?

 

[Foxrac]

Can you provide links?

There is good news - you aren't alone anymore.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...econd-amendment-politics-2017-215784?cmpid=sf

 

[Reba]

With a truck victims at least have a possible chance of getting out of the way as many did on the bike path or in France as they saw the vehicle coming,

That doesn't matter when the discussion is whether or not one should be regulated and one not. Each tool (gun or truck) can cause mass casualties, period. The right to own a gun is protected by the Constitution; there is no constitutional protection for owning a truck.

If someone is shooting at you, you can't see it coming. OK bombing changed a lot of things in the U.S.. There are more checks put in place to keep people from buying the necessary materials needed to make a truck bomb than there is in the laughable background checks needed to buy a firearm,

The Las Vegas shooter had also purchased bomb-making materials.

The only thing that is checked on buying a gun is they run your name through the criminal data base, all other questions they pretty much take you at your word.

That's still more than a check for trucks.

As I said earlier, each time one of these vehicle attacks happen new methods are put in place to stop future attacks;

And yet, they keep happening.

NYC has already installed or are installing concrete pillars at entry points to the bike paths in the city to keep some radical nut from doing what happened last week.

So, there are other venues. You can't turn American cities into fortresses.

With all the mass shootings in the U.S. nothing has been done to date to keep any of them from happening again and so far they have just escalated in scope and carnage.

It's impossible because every situation is different.

The last two years in the U.S. gun deaths have risen, in 2014, it was 11 deaths per 100,000 people, in 2015, the number had risen to 12 deaths per 100,000!

Those aren't all mass shooting victims.

Finally, where you live must be totally different than where I live, because I have never seen someone walking down the street carrying a gun!

Other than military and LEO, neither have I. South Carolina is not an open carry state.

With a vehicular attack it all boils down to situational awareness and having a plan to escape if the unforeseen should happen,

Situational awareness is important regardless of the method of attack. There are some situations that you just can't escape no matter how aware you are.

if someone is shooting at you it's pretty much out of your hands and up to the luck of the draw.

Same with trucks, bombs and hijacked planes. Why pick on gun owners?

 

[Reba]

Can you provide links?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...c4905bf40dc_story.html?utm_term=.3ec85aaafef4

 

[seb]

There is good news - you aren't alone anymore.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...econd-amendment-politics-2017-215784?cmpid=sf

Oh, I'm not alone, polls have shown almost 90% of Americans want gun control.

 

[seb]

That doesn't matter when the discussion is whether or not one should be regulated and one not. Each tool (gun or truck) can cause mass casualties, period. The right to own a gun is protected by the Constitution; there is no constitutional protection for owning a truck.

-With the conservative SC right now you have the right, that could change with a liberal one. In the late 1700's and into the 1800's many guns were kept at the armories at Springfield and Harpers Ferry for the various militia's. The is what the raid on Harpers Ferry by John Brown was all about; they were there to get guns.


The Las Vegas shooter had also purchased bomb-making materials.
- Yes, I read that they found 2 pounds of fertilizer at his house, but he didn't use them did he?


That's still more than a check for trucks.
- There are far more shootings in the U.S. than truck or vehicle attacks.


And yet, they keep happening.
-And they keep putting up more barricades to keep them from happening again.
-The mass shootings keep happening too!

So, there are other venues. You can't turn American cities into fortresses.
-Slowly it's happening whether you like it or not and with guns and now vehicle attacks it's going to get a lot more like a fortress, just watch.


It's impossible because every situation is different.
-Nothing is impossible.


Those aren't all mass shooting victims.
-That's true, but some were. However what other amendment to the Constitution is responsible for over 12,000 deaths per year on U.S. soil?


Other than military and LEO, neither have I. South Carolina is not an open carry state.


Situational awareness is important regardless of the method of attack. There are some situations that you just can't escape no matter how aware you are.
-personally I will take the truck over the firearm attack.


Same with trucks, bombs and hijacked planes. Why pick on gun owners?

-So exactly how do these people who shouldn't have guns get them?

 

[Reba]

-So exactly how do these people who shouldn't have guns get them?

Who are "these people"?

- Yes, I read that they found 2 pounds of fertilizer at his house, but he didn't use them did he?

"During the most-recent update, Sheriff Lombardo said police found 10 one pound containers of tannerite, two 20 pound containers of tannerite, and 1,600 rounds of ammunition along with an unknown quantity of ammonium nitrate inside Paddock's vehicle."

"Police have said Paddock's vehicle was in the area of the hotel, and it's likely the fast response by a security guard and Las Vegas police prevented even greater destruction given what was found inside his car."

http://fox17.com/news/local/las-vegas-shooter-had-50-pounds-of-tannerite-in-car-why-thats-concerning

He was willing to do it and could have made a very nasty bomb with that.

Neither amendments nor guns kill people; people do. People intent on killing will do so no matter what "controls" you try to put into place. Controls only restrict sane, law obedient people and create more defenseless victims. Victims of individual crimes and victims of tyrannical regimes.

 

[Jiro]

Can you provide links?

google and any news source of your choosing.

 

[Jiro]

With a truck victims at least have a possible chance of getting out of the way as many did on the bike path or in France as they saw the vehicle coming,

and yet.... a truck driver killed more people than a lunatic gunman....

If someone is shooting at you, you can't see it coming.

and many victims said they never saw a truck/car coming either.

OK bombing changed a lot of things in the U.S.. There are more checks put in place to keep people from buying the necessary materials needed to make a truck bomb than there is in the laughable background checks needed to buy a firearm,

the only thing that will red-flag you is if you're buying a large quantity of commercial-grade fertilizer. other than that... we know nothing about nothing. that's why lot of recent bombings are done by pressure cookers.

The only thing that is checked on buying a gun is they run your name through the criminal data base, all other questions they pretty much take you at your word.

the reason why they ask you questions is so that they can take your words and check it with the database. lying on Form 4473 is a federal offense and it will land you in jail for up to 10 years.

As I said earlier, each time one of these vehicle attacks happen new methods are put in place to stop future attacks; NYC has already installed or are installing concrete pillars at entry points to the bike paths in the city to keep some radical nut from doing what happened last week.

like I said - there are 100000000000000000 other vulnerable places to do it. it's NYC... everywhere is crowded. anywhere is good enough for a lunatic.

With all the mass shootings in the U.S. nothing has been done to date to keep any of them from happening again and so far they have just escalated in scope and carnage. The last two years in the U.S. gun deaths have risen, in 2014, it was 11 deaths per 100,000 people, in 2015, the number had risen to 12 deaths per 100,000! Finally, where you live must be totally different than where I live, because I have never seen someone walking down the street carrying a gun!

what? who would do that? it's illegal to do that in here.

With a vehicular attack it all boils down to situational awareness and having a plan to escape if the unforeseen should happen, if someone is shooting at you it's pretty much out of your hands and up to the luck of the draw.

if someone is driving toward you, it's pretty much out of your hands and cops can't do anything about it until he crashes. that's why auto carnage kills more people than mass shooting.

and by installing more concrete barriers, victims will not be able to get out of the way quickly enough. that is one major drawback. you are essentially building a perfect kill zone with less escape routes for victims.

 

[Jiro]

-So exactly how do these people who shouldn't have guns get them?

how exactly do prisoners get drugs and weapons in prisons? there you go.

 

[Jiro]

Oh, I'm not alone, polls have shown almost 90% of Americans want gun control.

I can't find the part about 90% of Americans wanting gun control.

can you copy-paste the exact wording?

 

[seb]

Who are "these people"?



"During the most-recent update, Sheriff Lombardo said police found 10 one pound containers of tannerite, two 20 pound containers of tannerite, and 1,600 rounds of ammunition along with an unknown quantity of ammonium nitrate inside Paddock's vehicle."

"Police have said Paddock's vehicle was in the area of the hotel, and it's likely the fast response by a security guard and Las Vegas police prevented even greater destruction given what was found inside his car."

http://fox17.com/news/local/las-vegas-shooter-had-50-pounds-of-tannerite-in-car-why-thats-concerning

He was willing to do it and could have made a very nasty bomb with that.

Neither amendments nor guns kill people; people do. People intent on killing will do so no matter what "controls" you try to put into place. Controls only restrict sane, law obedient people and create more defenseless victims. Victims of individual crimes and victims of tyrannical regimes.

Since he was missing one of the key ingredients for making a bomb with fertilizer, it's total speculation that he intended to use it.

The person pulls the trigger and the bullet coming out of the gun does the killing. Take the gun out of the mix and you have a lot less killing. Since we haven't really had any form of gun control legislation we will never know, so far the lack of any comprehensive screening process to get the guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them in the first place has made it very easy for these people hell bent on killing.
So where do the guns that people get illegally come from? I've asked you this several times and you have never answered it.

 

[seb]

and yet.... a truck driver killed more people than a lunatic gunman....

-Which truck driver? Total victims less than shooters.


and many victims said they never saw a truck/car coming either.
-And some said they were able to get out of the way when they saw it coming.


the only thing that will red-flag you is if you're buying a large quantity of commercial-grade fertilizer. other than that... we know nothing about nothing. that's why lot of recent bombings are done by pressure cookers.

-And you're and expert on this because?


the reason why they ask you questions is so that they can take your words and check it with the database. lying on Form 4473 is a federal offense and it will land you in jail for up to 10 years.
-And people still lie on 4473.


like I said - there are 100000000000000000 other vulnerable places to do it. it's NYC... everywhere is crowded. anywhere is good enough for a lunatic.

-Just as many for some nut with a gun.


what? who would do that? it's illegal to do that in here.

-Who would do what?


if someone is driving toward you, it's pretty much out of your hands and cops can't do anything about it until he crashes. that's why auto carnage kills more people than mass shooting.

-And you're basing this on exactly what statistics?

and by installing more concrete barriers, victims will not be able to get out of the way quickly enough. that is one major drawback. you are essentially building a perfect kill zone with less escape routes for victims.

-Since the vehicle won't be able to enter in the first place, you don't really have to worry about getting out of the way of anything do you, so there really is no perfect kill zone anymore.

 

[seb]

how exactly do prisoners get drugs and weapons in prisons? there you go.

So how do they get them and where do they come from?

 

[seb]

I can't find the part about 90% of Americans wanting gun control.

can you copy-paste the exact wording?

I got it with a Google search, you can do the same or should I have said "google and any news source of your choosing." Sound familiar?