Future of deaf schools

shel90

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Since more and more deaf children are getting CI's, I am concerned about the enrollment numbers at the deaf school where I work due to the parents wanting their child be immersed in a auditory environment as opposed to visual environment. We have started a CI program to keep our enrollment numbers up but recently John Hopkins University CI center just criticized our program as not having adequate time of spoken English being used. Now, we have to start using more and more spoken English in the classrooms to meet the demands from the parents. That is of some concern for me as a deaf staff...will the day that parents start demanding their child to be taught by hearing people who can do both ASL and spoken English come? Will my job be in jeopardy then? I am deaf and I know I am unable to use spoken English while teaching my lessons because it is not natural for me.

Parents of CI children...pls share your thoughts and your opinions if I am wrong or do you yourself or you have encoutered other parents who feel that their child with CI should be taught by a hearing teacher who can provide the auditory needs of their child?

Also, do you prefer your child in the public schools or in deaf schools that has a CI program?
 
I am not a parent of CI children but this was concern also when hearing aids became used wide. I think this is not as big concern as maybe it seems.
 
The parents and doctors also denied children with implant access to sign language. They might remain communicatively impaired for years and years. We do not blame the parents as we blames the FDA for allowing the device on the market when it is unethical and also does not work well for the deaf children. Unfortunately, our society views being deaf as a disability but not being female or male into transsexual. Why did you think that the hearing parents should decide on their children to put the cochlear implants whether they do not know anything about deafness or other way for the deaf children to learn? There is a very strong presumption in our moral reasoning and in the law that the parents know best for their children (look how the government wants to return Elian Gonzales to his father). The msitake was for FDA to give the parents the choice. For example, if there were an unsafe drug, and parents thought it was good and asked the doctor for it for their children. It is not the parent's job to learn all about the drug and alternatives; the FDA should not allow the drug to be marketed. That is reasoning, why can;t the FDA and Consensus Developement Conferences were held the and the FDA approved the issue of infant cochlear implant, they did not consult those opposed to its approval by the deaf community? Both the panel and the conference were made up exclusively of hearing people, mostly ear specialists. Most of them are uninformed about the deaf world. The FDA panel had it is proceeding all written down, and he read them. Basically, the deaf person has seen as a broken ear. The face that most deaf children have hearing parents made it much easier for these groups to ignore deaf people. They feel it is done of your business. There are not your children. Why can't the hearing parents reconsider or consult with deaf professional first before they see those doctor? The parents see their child being deaf as medical /disability problem, so many never think about asking deaf adults. The doctor encourages them to ask oher hearing parents whose children have had implants but even that is difficult. If the parents wanted to talk to a deaf person, where would they find one? How could they communicate? finally, the idea that they need to consult a strange deaf adult is somewhat frightening; will their child become a strange adult with another language and culture?
I am not surprised that nowadays the deaf children become older, they do not use their implants. They choice the sign language and deaf world then become angry with their parents for not accept who they are !

I spoke with a lady at the FDA who works at the device market. She does not realize how many out there deaf children are not happy to using their implants and tired easily to learn their speech language for many hours. Deaf Americans and with deaf leaders and scholars who have some knowledge of how deaf children acquire language, how they develop socially and emotionally, and how they become an integral part of the American deaf community and its culture. The FDA formally consulted otologists, speech and hearing scientists, manufactures (Cochlear Implant Corp.) parents, and members of its own staff in arriving at its decision; its failure to consult deaf leaders represents, if an oversight, ignorance concerning growing up deaf in America, or, if willful, offense against fundamental American values. Nationa Ssociation of the Deaf branding the FDA action "unsound scientifically, and ethically,. The American Academy of Otolaryngology, Head and Neck Surgery said in rebuttal that the FDA and its Ear, Nose and Throat Devices Panel make judgement only "on the basis of valid scientific evidence." They are more listening hearing than deaf people.
For example, they put more weight on their child acquiring extremely limited communication in their primary language than on the child acquiring fluent communication in ASL. A hearing mother of a deaf child said at a discussion of implants with deaf leaders, :but surely a mother have a right to want surgery for her child which will make him more like his mother as hearing".

The child can't get any more advocate his own position, because he is too young or because he has kept languageless, the child should have a representative or an advocate. The deaf children need get some expore and advocate from the deaf community which it is their true ASL language itself !

The hearing people are very selfish themselves because they do not realize how much emotional distrub for those innocence deaf children change their socially idenities.

I hope, one day the FDA and NIH will be waking up that implants are not completely helpful for their speech language and more voculbary than without CI deaf children. That is full of bull ** S ** ! The government CONTROL in this society to fixing the deaf ears into hearing to be like them. No way ! :pissed:

Deaf people during 1960's. They were forbided us to not using sign language. We were training for many hours to watch ugliest speech therpist with yellowish teeth and red thick lipstick. They do not teach me any academic because they wanted us to learn how to speak. That is full of bull ** s **. My Deaf school finally established to allow us totally communication ASL/Oral in 1968. What can I do about my not property speech? I have seen some oralism Deaf people do not realize that their speech are not property.
 
I am not a parent of CI children but this was concern also when hearing aids became used wide. I think this is not as big concern as maybe it seems.

True..never thought about hearing aides...hmm, just have to wait and see what the future holds for us. There has been a lot of meetings lately at my work on how to keep the number of enrollements healthy to prevent the school from closing down and that of course, stirs up all these questions..what if this and what if that?

I just really wanted to see what the parents of CI children have to say to this issue...

To the parents of CI children
Promise u...whatever you have to say, I wont start lashing out insults or whatever. I am sure there will be some things I may not agree with but what I really want to know what is YOUR perspective on this issue as opposed to my perspective as a deaf person who may be biased...help me think out of the box..

Thanks
 
Hi Kalista...it seems that you are very angry about this whole issue? Correct me if I am wrong but from reading this recent post and your other posts, I am getting the impression that you are very anti-CI, anti-oralism, and have strong deaf pride.

You have a right to your opinions and feelings but in reality, technology advances have been so tremendous these days and of course hearing parents will take whatever measures to help their child to be able to hear and speak. Let's face it...this is a hearing dominated world, so of course the children's parents are thinking in the child's best interests by getting them implanted. As an educator, I believe in giving the child as many options as they can but personally, I dont believe in making the child "hearing" and stripping away the child's self-esteem for not suceeding in being "hearing." I believe in exploring all options one of them being ASL as their primary language.

I have seen some children benefit and not benefit from the CI. Each child is different but my belief is that all deaf children should be taught about deafness, ASL, and deaf culture. That way they dont feel ashamed for being "different', ya know?

I am sorry for your horrible experiences growing up with abusive speech therapists and teachers. They took extremely extreme measures and should have been put in jail for the tactics they used on you and your classmates. I was lucky that I wasnt abused to that level but I have been criticized constantly for not achieving "normal" speech skills and that did some damage to my self esteem. I feel fortunate that I let go of that anger and just learn from it and hope to help our deaf children to become proud of themselves.
 
Kalista, I agree with Shel90 that those oralists should have been put in jail for what they did to you. What they did to you was inexcusable.

Although I can speak, I've had hearing criticize me for not having perfect speech. One of my graphic design teachers actually told me take speech therapy and to improve my lipreading skills. :roll:

I told my deaf counseler about it and her advice on improving communication was much more helpful to me. She knows what's it's like to be deaf.

I also remember one deaf oralist who critized my lipreading skills and she told the cashier I had lost my lipreading skills due to the fact I use sign language. I was very annoyed. Everyone told me that my speech is better than hers. So there!

I will never be the perfect "hearie" even if many deaf mistake me for hearing the first time they meet me. I will never be hearing even with CI.
 
Since more and more deaf children are getting CI's, I am concerned about the enrollment numbers at the deaf school where I work due to the parents wanting their child be immersed in a auditory environment as opposed to visual environment.
While that may play a factor, it isn't the overriding one.

The major reason why the future of DHH educational programs are being in jeopardy, are the shrinking numbers of DHH children. Couple that trend with mainstreaming, and you've got a perfect storm of sorts, destroying or marginalizing self-contained DHH programs left and right.

I would strongly counsel anyone contemplating the field of Deaf education to reevaluate their choice, and consider special education in addition. The field of Deaf education is crowded with highly qualified people chasing after few and fast dwindling opportunities. Having a speciality in special education will enable the educator to hold onto his/her job, and even expand his/her job opportunities across a wide spectrum of teaching disabled students.

I even have come across interpreters, and they were once Teachers of the Deaf. For some reason, they are not teaching and are just interpreting instead. I expect the mainstreaming trend to accelerate in the near future, increasing demand for interpreters and eliminating dedicated DHH classrooms.
 
Okay if you want an honest answer...........

My child has a CI and is mainstreamed in a regular school..........been that way since he is 3 years old. Before that, we had him in an "oral" school who was much better equipped to teaching us about CI"s that the 2 Deaf schools around here.I would NEVER put my child in those 2 schools, the teaching staff and the quality of education was sub-par........thus my reasonoing for placing my child in a mainstream enviroment.

Would I object to a Deaf teacher using ASL to teach my child? No, absolutely not! I think it's great exposure for my child to see and interact with Deaf individuals. Unfortunately, the places where a good majority are, I don't approve of them. so what to do??? In our school district, my child is one of 4 deaf children......3 of which have CI's..They (meaning the school district) would do anything we asked of them as parents So if I could find a qualified Deaf teacher, I would demand that the district hire them. Mind you, this would have to be a teacher who was not opposed to CI's. Maybe I'm the exception and not the norm, but at the end of the day- I stilll have a DEAF child.............So I would WANT the exposure to a Deaf educator..

Getting back to your question, I think that Deaf schools are "on their way out". Many professionals tha tI know of have left are about to leave that enviroment and gointo the public school arena...........Your job should not be in jeoporday espeically if you are willing to be an interintent teacher of the Deaf and teach the student one on one......Does this make any sense or am I babbbling wayyyyy too early in the morning for me??????????????
 
As deaf society evolves, the deaf schools are going have to change or theyre going to be closed. Gallaudet has been changing to accept the new deaf society and that's why the old deaf guards are making a big crybaby thing out of it.

Richard
 
As deaf society evolves, the deaf schools are going have to change or theyre going to be closed. Gallaudet has been changing to accept the new deaf society and that's why the old deaf guards are making a big crybaby thing out of it.

Richard

Yea, I agree with you. We all have to adapt to the current trends. However, as a deaf staff, it is physically impossible for me to be part of the trend to include more spoken English in the curriculm as defined by the new CI program at my work. For now, I am ok cuz ASL is still the primary source of instruction but as I mentioned before, John Hopkins recently criticized our program not having adequate time of using spoken English during the school hours. That's of a concern for me in the future because the pressure to add more spoken English time in the curriculm is tremendous. Many parents are stating that they prefer to put their child in mainstreamed programs cuz of more auditority time allocated in the lessons. Let's say my place of employment decides to adapt an all day spoken English instruction and ASL, how can I provide the spoken English instruction as a deaf person? Just wondering if parents of CI children prefer hearing staff who can provide both sign language and spoken English or doesnt matter as long as the auditory and visual needs are met? Maybe I am worrying about nothing...was just something I have been wondering and wanted people's perspectives on this...
 
Shel, a bunch of idears............ maybe it might be a good idear to have a formal oral program on campus. Like you could collaborate with the oral programs in your state to improve oral skills. The trouble is that most talented oral teachers tend to be attracted to the private school programs (which pay a lot more) Maybe a good idear might be to have it set up so that the kids in the CI program have one week on working on oral skills, and then the next week working on ASL!
Second, maybe a program where mainstreamed dhh kids can come in and take some classes and or get TOD-like services. You could promote this as an enrichment thing "your kid can get an edge and learn a second language, and meet other kids like them!"
Third, dhh kids are not the only kids who use Sign. There are kids out there who use Sign as a first language, due to things like apraxia or tracheostomies or cerebal palsy. Maybe start a program for them! Like contact your state's ARC (some kids with non MR developmental delays are served by ARC) I know most Deaf schools have programs for Deaf special needs kids, but I haven't really seen anything for kids who use ASL as a first language but who do not have serious disablities like mental retardation)
 
Since more and more deaf children are getting CI's, I am concerned about the enrollment numbers at the deaf school where I work due to the parents wanting their child be immersed in a auditory environment as opposed to visual environment. We have started a CI program to keep our enrollment numbers up but recently John Hopkins University CI center just criticized our program as not having adequate time of spoken English being used. Now, we have to start using more and more spoken English in the classrooms to meet the demands from the parents. That is of some concern for me as a deaf staff...will the day that parents start demanding their child to be taught by hearing people who can do both ASL and spoken English come? Will my job be in jeopardy then? I am deaf and I know I am unable to use spoken English while teaching my lessons because it is not natural for me.

Parents of CI children...pls share your thoughts and your opinions if I am wrong or do you yourself or you have encoutered other parents who feel that their child with CI should be taught by a hearing teacher who can provide the auditory needs of their child?

Also, do you prefer your child in the public schools or in deaf schools that has a CI program?

My son attended St. Rita School for the Deaf. While he does not have a CI, there were many students attending who did have a CI. It did not seem to affect their enrollment numbers at all. The older kids received their CI in their mid to late teens, and still ID as Deaf. The kids who received them when they were younger still needed the visual for complete understanding in the classroom. Most all of the students would use their CI in class, but take it off outside of the classroom. Perhaps because the social environment was comprised of either Deaf students and teachers, Deaf RA's or hearing teachers administrators that were fluent in sign. Also, all parents of students at St. Rita are required to learn sign, if they don't know it already when their child is enrolled.
 
Also, I meant to say that one of the main reasons I sent my son to St. Rita as a day student was so that he would have Deaf teachers.
 
What your school is going to have to do is adapt to the fact that parents are chosing to use new technology. One way to do that is make sure your academic standards are very high. meaning failing those who are actually failing or getting them the remedial/tutoring help they need to actually stay at grade level...this assumes they are not MR of course, and having a secondary disabilty like add/adhd etc really is not a good reason to let the kids failing move on, it does make it more challenging to find a way for them to acutally learn and retain information. That is what is going to keep your enrollment up.

As one parent here stated the deaf schools in his area don't meet the standards he's looking for. Plus you have to remember that many families will do everything to keep their child at home with it's family.

I looked at the blogs about the protests going on in DC? the one that I found listed some comments, one was quoting the outgoing directors comment about how the incoming director has had to make hard decisions one of which was raising the standard to graduate in one of her former jobs. What I got from the poster was he felt she had failed because the number of remedial courses had increased and the number of graduates had dropped? This is a failure how? Even 'normal' hs's are now having to meet standards, what is wrong with actually having the teachers teach the basics and expecting the students to actually achieve a certain grade to show understanding of the topic to actually pass.

One of my biggest gripes when my kids were in school was the fact that my one child was passed along in math without understanding of the concepts. Of course her self esteem may have been intact according to her teachers but the tears and frustrations she showed at home because the instruction and the textbooks (or lack of) didn't give her the information to 'get' it. She had to take remedial math in colledge, she finally learned the concepts (excellent instructor who actually could present the meterial so EVERYONE understood it, and it wasn't dumbed down) and was actually able to show a science teacher working through an algebra curriculum (which he was going to supervise, it was actually instructed on the computer) how to do a couple problems tha thad him stumped. And he taught physcis and chem so it's not like he wasn't aware of algebra concepts.

Anyway I do hope that your school finds a way to utilize it's speaking staff to the max to help kids with CI's get both good spoken models and of course the ASL for communication to. But one of the biggest things that will help keep your school open with good enrollment will be good academic programs and both good ASL and spoken programs, that have parents with children with implants want to send their child to yoru school.

hope that makes some kind of sense. :)
 
My child has a CI and is mainstreamed in a regular school..........been that way since he is 3 years old. Before that, we had him in an "oral" school who was much better equipped to teaching us about CI"s that the 2 Deaf schools around here.I would NEVER put my child in those 2 schools, the teaching staff and the quality of education was sub-par........thus my reasonoing for placing my child in a mainstream enviroment.

Would I object to a Deaf teacher using ASL to teach my child? No, absolutely not! I think it's great exposure for my child to see and interact with Deaf individuals. Unfortunately, the places where a good majority are, I don't approve of them. so what to do??? In our school district, my child is one of 4 deaf children......3 of which have CI's..They (meaning the school district) would do anything we asked of them as parents So if I could find a qualified Deaf teacher, I would demand that the district hire them. Mind you, this would have to be a teacher who was not opposed to CI's. Maybe I'm the exception and not the norm, but at the end of the day- I stilll have a DEAF child.............So I would WANT the exposure to a Deaf educator..

Getting back to your question, I think that Deaf schools are "on their way out". Many professionals tha tI know of have left are about to leave that enviroment and gointo the public school arena...........Your job should not be in jeoporday espeically if you are willing to be an interintent teacher of the Deaf and teach the student one on one......Does this make any sense or am I babbbling wayyyyy too early in the morning for me??????????????

At one point in time, Deaf schools as they were known in history were on their way out. That was the result of the push for oralism and mainstreaming deaf children. It was then discovered that the LRE for the majority of deaf children is not a mainstream classroom, and that the mainstream classroom is by nature a more restrictive environment. This is based not only on the language used for instruction, but the opportunity to interact with peers. As a consequence, many Deaf schools, particularly those who endorse TC, are making a revival and seeing a jump in enrollment numbers. Unfortunately, this was realized only after many deaf students were sacrificed to sub-par education in the name of mainstreaming.
 
this was realized only after many deaf students were sacrificed to sub-par education in the name of mainstreaming.
Oh agreed. One thing that a lot of "Whoohoo! Mainstreaming is this wonderful GLORIOUS Utopia!" folks ignore, is that if a dhh kid isn't a Super Deaf (like high acheiver with minmal accomondations) they get lumped in with the dumbass slacker types.
 
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