Climate Skeptics See 'Smoking Gun' in Researchers' Leaked E-Mails

kokonut

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Hackers broke into the servers at a prominent British climate research center and leaked years worth of e-mail messages onto the Web, including one with a mysterious reference to a plan to "hide the decline," apparently in temperatures.

The Internet is abuzz about the leaked data from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (commonly called Hadley CRU), which has acknowledged the theft of 61MB of confidential data.

Climate change skeptics describe the leaked data as a "smoking gun," evidence of collusion among climatologists and manipulation of data to support the widely held view that climate change is caused by the actions of mankind. The files were reportedly released on a Russian file-serve by an anonymous poster calling himself "FOIA."

In one email discussion:

Still, one notable e-mail from the hacked files clearly describes how to squeeze dissenting scientists from the peer review process:

"I think we have to stop considering Climate Research as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board…What do others think?"

Climate Skeptics See 'Smoking Gun' in Researchers' Leaked E-Mails - Biology | Astronomy | Chemistry | Physics - FOXNews.com
What a nice feeling to feel vindicated in all this.
 
I SO KNEW you'd post it! I saw that news and I thought, "Kokonut will post it!"

LOL!

But on to that topic, it's laughable that you think if a scientist commits an unethical act just because he believes in global warming, the whole global warming theory must be false. It ain't so! :)

Like I said many times, only data will clarify and conclude the current climate situation. You got NONE!
 
It's about purposely skewing the data to make it favorable for global warming scientists. Several instances in email correspondences had discussion on how to minimize the impact of no rise in global warming in a decade. How to "hide" certain data or smooth them out. Remember, there was a 62 megabyte zip file, containing around 160 megabytes of emails, pdfs and other documents. Lots of stuff to go thru and see how they colluded to deceive the public. Amusing to see people rather quiet on this one.
 
Every time I've suggested that scientists are no more noble than anyone else and science is no more immune to politics, bias, and group think than any other human endeavor, I've been attacked. True, the unethical acts of a group of scientists doesn't change what's actually happening in the physical world, but it does bolster the case for thinking independently and not pursuing disastrous policies based on what a bunch of scientists say.
 
Exactly. Which is why govt was so generous is giving out to grant money to researchers who would work on global warming in the govt's favor. Apparently, that has failed or is beginning to show massive collapsing since temperature has not risen in over 10 years. They'll try and lie at every possible opportunities just like Al Gore's book cover with four or five hurricanes spinning in the ocean with one spinning the wrong way and one at the equator, both are physically impossible given our current physics of our climate dynamics.
 
James Delingpole at the Telegraph was able to sum up some of the most damning and damaging e-mails:

When you read some of those files – including 1079 emails and 72 documents – you realise just why the boffins at Hadley CRU might have preferred to keep them confidential. As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be “the greatest in modern science”. These alleged emails – supposedly exchanged by some of the most prominent scientists pushing AGW theory – suggest:

Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

One of the alleged emails has a gentle gloat over the death in 2004 of John L Daly (one of the first climate change sceptics, founder of the Still Waiting For Greenhouse site), commenting:

“In an odd way this is cheering news.”

But perhaps the most damaging revelations – the scientific equivalent of the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal – are those concerning the way Warmist scientists may variously have manipulated or suppressed evidence in order to support their cause.

Here are a few tasters. (So far, we can only refer to them as alleged emails because – though Hadley CRU’s director Phil Jones has confirmed the break-in to Ian Wishart at the Briefing Room – he has yet to fess up to any specific contents.) But if genuine, they suggest dubious practices such as:

Manipulation of evidence:

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up:

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t. The CERES data published in the August BAMS 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate.

Suppression of evidence:

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?

Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.

Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t have his new email address.

We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.

Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists:

Next time I see Pat Michaels at a scientific meeting, I’ll be tempted to beat
the crap out of him. Very tempted.

Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP):

……Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and many of which are available nearly 2K back–I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try to “contain” the putative “MWP”, even if we don’t yet have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back….

And, perhaps most reprehensibly, a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. How, in other words, to create a scientific climate in which anyone who disagrees with AGW can be written off as a crank, whose views do not have a scrap of authority
Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of ‘Anthropogenic Global Warming’? – Telegraph Blogs

Global warming as caused by mankind? It's a total, full blown crackpot theory. Just like Al Gore is a total crackpot and hypocrite, too.
 
No idea on your personal reaction to this, but this is the result of hackers. Since you were in an uproar about "Leftist hackers hack Joe Wilson's donation website" I am almost curious as to your feelings about this hacking. Wonder if it was done by "Right wing hackers hack climatologist website to diffuse Global warming claims", but I assume it depends on the party that is hacked. Perhaps they are heroes for the Petroleum and Chemical industries?
 
realclimate.org responds:

"More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though."

"Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking."

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens."

RealClimate: The CRU hack
 
Global warming as caused by mankind? It's a total, full blown crackpot theory. Just like Al Gore is a total crackpot and hypocrite, too.

Al Gore did not invent global warming, just like he did not invent the Internet - he never made those claims. You are the one that keep talking about Al Gore, you'll notice that most of us who believe in global warming rarely make a reference to Al Gore - you don't see me cite Al Gore? I haven't seen his movie. Stop being obsessed with Al Gore.

It was a consensus of scientists that said global warming is happening and many believed it was caused by humans. That was before Al Gore promoted the idea that we're having global warming.
 
It was a consensus of scientists that said global warming is happening and many believed it was caused by humans. That was before Al Gore promoted the idea that we're having global warming.
I think that, with humans in the numbers there are now, doing what they do, there must be some environmental damage occuring. To think otherwise might be wishful thinking. We are leaving very big footprints in our current era of existence. Someone will pay for it; most likely, our future generation.

I did something recently that was both educational and sad. I used Google map and took a tour of the Love Canal area. There are still streets and sidewalks there, but no people. Granted, this is not necessarily related to global warming, but it shows what can happen when we put our heads in the sand and trust corporations to "do the right thing."

So who to believe? Al Gore, in relation to this topic, seems like a loud mouthed proponent. If you look past his buffoonery, there might just be something there. If you choose to think there is nothing to this whole "warming" thing, I can only hope you are right. Budgets and health care will be minimal problems compared to changing crop zones and massive fish die-offs.
 
Do you even realize that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere makes up only .038 percent or .00038 of the total atmospheric gases?

Remember, in any unit of volume the current concentration of CO2 means that 38 out of every 100,000 molecules of air we breathe contains CO2. It takes on average about 5 years of manmade CO2 emissions just to increase that number by 1 additional CO2 molecule into the atmosphere moving up the percentage to .039 percent (or .00039) of the total atmospheric gases.

You need to realize just how little CO2 is on the ground. Freeman Dyson makes a good case why:


Quote

"The fundamental reason why carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is critically important to biology is that there is so little of it. A field of corn growing in full sunlight in the middle of the day uses up all the carbon dioxide within a meter of the ground in about five minutes. If the air were not constantly stirred by convection currents and winds, the corn would stop growing.

Edge: HERETICAL THOUGHTS ABOUT SCIENCE AND SOCIETY By Freeman Dyson

This global warming nonsense is a bunch of gobblygook predicated on political influence and control and nothing more. I'm for cleaner environment on the regional and local scale such as water pollution, air pollution, land pollution and so forth. Those are the immediate things we can do to help within reasonable measures. I don't think people actually advocate dirty air, water and land but instead strive to be better environmental stewards....within reasonable measures and economic viability rather than crush everybody in an economic death with debts, higher taxes and greater govt control.
 
And at the same time, the climate experts say:

"Three UK groups studying climate change have issued an unprecedented statement about the dangers of failing to cut emissions of greenhouse gases.
The Royal Society, Met Office, and Natural Environment Research Council say the science underpinning climate change is more alarming than ever."

BBC News - Global warming science alarming, say climate experts

I guess they're nothing but lying crockpots too?
 
Exactly. Which is why govt was so generous is giving out to grant money to researchers who would work on global warming in the govt's favor. Apparently, that has failed or is beginning to show massive collapsing since temperature has not risen in over 10 years. They'll try and lie at every possible opportunities just like Al Gore's book cover with four or five hurricanes spinning in the ocean with one spinning the wrong way and one at the equator, both are physically impossible given our current physics of our climate dynamics.

That's absurd. The grant money is not disbursed based on positive results. No one knows what the results of any of the research will be until the study is done. The grant money is long gone by that time. Grant money is disbursed to cover the expenses of hypothesis testing and experimentation.
 
Do you even realize that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere makes up only .038 percent or .00038 of the total atmospheric gases?

Remember, in any unit of volume the current concentration of CO2 means that 38 out of every 100,000 molecules of air we breathe contains CO2. It takes on average about 5 years of manmade CO2 emissions just to increase that number by 1 additional CO2 molecule into the atmosphere moving up the percentage to .039 percent (or .00039) of the total atmospheric gases.

You need to realize just how little CO2 is on the ground. Freeman Dyson makes a good case why:


Quote



Edge: HERETICAL THOUGHTS ABOUT SCIENCE AND SOCIETY By Freeman Dyson

This global warming nonsense is a bunch of gobblygook predicated on political influence and control and nothing more. I'm for cleaner environment on the regional and local scale such as water pollution, air pollution, land pollution and so forth. Those are the immediate things we can do to help within reasonable measures. I don't think people actually advocate dirty air, water and land but instead strive to be better environmental stewards....within reasonable measures and economic viability rather than crush everybody in an economic death with debts, higher taxes and greater govt control.

"Gobblygook." Now there's a word that inspires confidence and exudes intelligence! :laugh2: There goes that credibility!:giggle:
 
Do you even realize that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere makes up only .038 percent or .00038 of the total atmospheric gases?

I've proved you wrong many times and you still use that argument to deceive the public that small numbers don't mean anything.

Just because the number sounds small doesn't make it "insignificant." It is extremely significant.

Our bodies operate on TRACE nutrients - the amounts are so tiny - as little as .00005% of our body use it - it seems like it's not significant at all but they are essential for our health and without it, we die.

Also, educate yourself with this one:

"Greenhouse gases and ozone contribute warming of +2.9 Wm-2. The majority of this is from CO2 (+1.66 Wm-2). This warming is offset by anthropogenic aerosols, reducing the total human caused warming to 1.6 Wm-2.

So bringing it all together, there are two reasons for the focus on CO2:

CO2 is the most dominant radiative forcing
CO2 radiative forcing is increasing faster than any other forcing"

CO2 is not the only driver of climate

Global warming deniers and creationists have a lot in common - they seek to attack the theory than to prove their ridiculous theories.

"Since the late 1980s, this well-coordinated, well-funded campaign by contrarian scientists, free-market think tanks and industry has created a paralyzing fog of doubt around climate change. Through advertisements, op-eds, lobbying and media attention, greenhouse doubters (they hate being called deniers) argued first that the world is not warming; measurements indicating otherwise are flawed, they said. Then they claimed that any warming is natural, not caused by human activities. Now they contend that the looming warming will be minuscule and harmless. "They patterned what they did after the tobacco industry," says former senator Tim Wirth, who spearheaded environmental issues as an under secretary of State in the Clinton administration. "Both figured, sow enough doubt, call the science uncertain and in dispute. That's had a huge impact on both the public and Congress.""

Global Warming Deniers Well Funded | Newsweek Environment | Newsweek.com
 
And at the same time, the climate experts say:

"Three UK groups studying climate change have issued an unprecedented statement about the dangers of failing to cut emissions of greenhouse gases.
The Royal Society, Met Office, and Natural Environment Research Council say the science underpinning climate change is more alarming than ever."

BBC News - Global warming science alarming, say climate experts

I guess they're nothing but lying crockpots too?

More like global warming screamers on street corners screaming about the end is nigh.
 
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