Can hearing aids "gain" aided hearing down to 0db?

[deafdude1]

Naida V UP gain/SPL:

125Hz 65db/123db
250Hz 68db/126db
500Hz 72db/130db
750Hz 76db/136db
1000Hz 82db/142db
1500Hz 73db/130db
2000Hz 70db/130db
3000Hz 65db/128db
4000Hz 60db/119db

Given my audiogram, if my math serves me right id have an aided score/dynamic range of:

125Hz 0db/58db
250Hz 2db/56db
500Hz 18db/40db
750Hz 29db/31db
1000Hz 28db/32db
1500Hz 37db/20db
2000Hz 45db/15db
3000Hz 50db/13db
4000Hz 60db/-1db(SPL not enough to hear)

Does this work in real life? I am estimating I have an aided score of 15db at 125Hz and 250Hz since people with normal hearing can hear the same sounds as I can but from a greater distance. Also my audiologist mentioned he programmed them 90% of maximum and that maxing the gains might damage my residual hearing. As for the other scores, is my math right? Can 110db HL at 1000Hz really be aided down to 28db which represents only a few db shy of "normal" hearing? I do know I was aided to 35db from a 105db HL 10 years ago with Widex Senso C18+

 

[Hear Again]

If a person is unable to understand speech with hearing aids, what difference does it make if they're able to hear at 28 dB or 0 dB? Besides, an aided threshold of 20 dB does not equal clarity for most people with severe-profound or profound hearing loss.

 

[Mockingbird]

If the hearing loss is small enough, a hearing aid should be able to restore the normal hearing capabilities, but with some clarity loss. At a certain point you can't try to restore anymore hearing by turning it up because it will become physically painful and damage your hearing more.

 

[Hear Again]

At a certain point you can't try to restore anymore hearing by turning it up because it will become physically painful and damage your hearing more.

Not to mention distorted.

 

[LadySekhmet]

If a person is unable to understand speech with hearing aids, what difference does it make if they're able to hear at 28 dB or 0 dB? Besides, an aided threshold of 20 dB does not equal clarity for most people with severe-profound or profound hearing loss.

I agree. I could hear people talking and hearing their voice, but there was no clarity (esp in the highs). If someone was behind me and was talking, i could hear them talking and know who it is, but I cannot understand it, with exceptions of a few words that has been said many times.

 

[deafdude1]

If a person is unable to understand speech with hearing aids, what difference does it make if they're able to hear at 28 dB or 0 dB? Besides, an aided threshold of 20 dB does not equal clarity for most people with severe-profound or profound hearing loss.

Youd still benefit by hearing more environmental sounds. Also ive been told I talk too loud without HA or if I turn the volume/gain down. So in a way it benefits others that I don't "scream" at them. If I can't hear myself, I have no idea how loud im talking. Clarity can't always be improved but the ability to hear louder and more sounds can.

If the hearing loss is small enough, a hearing aid should be able to restore the normal hearing capabilities, but with some clarity loss. At a certain point you can't try to restore anymore hearing by turning it up because it will become physically painful and damage your hearing more.

The question is how much of a loss? I made a chart above that shows I could potentally be gained to 0db in the low frequencies. Whether that is possible or not, I want to know.

 

[LadySekhmet]

Clarity can't always be improved but the ability to hear louder and more sounds can.

Yes you can...through CI.

The question is how much of a loss? I made a chart above that shows I could potentally be gained to 0db in the low frequencies. Whether that is possible or not, I want to know.

Most likely mild to moderate type of loss. HA can only be powerful enough gain a lot, but not in the higher frequencies. I have a loss of 105 in my left - through HA, I can hear all the lows - it becomes a "mild" loss (40db), but very little in the highs. My right is 96 db loss from 88db two years prior. So, I was able to notice right away the differences...even though I had the exact same hearing aids.

So, unless if you have a moderate loss - it is possible to get your low frequencies to 0 to 10 db line. But why are you so itching to know if you can reach the potential to hearing levels? You have one of the top HA's possible. You have a slope loss, which is pretty much exactly what I had before I started to lose more. No HA can really bring up high frequencies to 0 or 10 or even 20 db line because of the amount of your loss (and my loss as well). Hence, why CI works the best. My friend can hear the high frequencies much better than I can, but she has a very profound loss in the low frequencies. So, when she wears her hearing aids, it kind of balances out, but of course, she has no clarity. Which suits her fine because she just wants to hear the environmental sounds.

 

[Hear Again]

Youd still benefit by hearing more environmental sounds. Also ive been told I talk too loud without HA or if I turn the volume/gain down. So in a way it benefits others that I don't "scream" at them. If I can't hear myself, I have no idea how loud im talking. Clarity can't always be improved but the ability to hear louder and more sounds can.

First of all, if I'm able to have aided scores of 60-70 dB at 250-750 Hz (which I did pre-CI), I'm still hearing environmental sounds, so why is it necessary to bring my aided score to 0 dB?

Second, I was always able to guage how loud I spoke by feeling vibrations in my throat. This is a technique that was taught to me by a former ENT of mine. I was also able to determine this by using a directional mic with my Comtek FM system in order to hear my own voice better.

 

[deafdude1]

Most likely mild to moderate type of loss. HA can only be powerful enough gain a lot, but not in the higher frequencies. I have a loss of 105 in my left - through HA, I can hear all the lows - it becomes a "mild" loss (40db), but very little in the highs. My right is 96 db loss from 88db two years prior. So, I was able to notice right away the differences...even though I had the exact same hearing aids.

You showed your audiogram in another post where your loss was only ~75db at 250Hz but got to 105db, 110db, 115db, 120db at 500, 1000, 2000, 4000Hz respectivately. This is similar to mine except for 500Hz. Do you have an audiogram just before getting CI? Ill be able to compare and this will help me gain perspective.

So, unless if you have a moderate loss - it is possible to get your low frequencies to 0 to 10 db line. But why are you so itching to know if you can reach the potential to hearing levels? You have one of the top HA's possible. You have a slope loss, which is pretty much exactly what I had before I started to lose more.

So yours was worse than 75db at 250Hz bilaterally when you got CI? I do have the top HA and theres a few things I could optimize. For one, either transposition is not currently enabled or it's enabled at frequencies still to high for me to hear. Id like it to shift frequencies above 1500-2000Hz down to 2000Hz and lower. Maybe itll help alot. Second, perhaps I should have my audie max out the gains at low frequencies(I have volume control so no worries if im in a noisy room)

No HA can really bring up high frequencies to 0 or 10 or even 20 db line because of the amount of your loss (and my loss as well). Hence, why CI works the best.

Unless they invent a HA that gives 100db gain, that won't be possible. Mine has just enough SPL that I can hear 2000Hz, im still testing if I can hear 3000Hz. It could be possible that my audie programmed the SPL to be a little less than the max listed on the spec sheet. I have a hard time believing im really getting 142 SPL at 1000Hz, if I was, it would be painful and probably damage my hearing further. I don't need crazy SPL, just enough SPL to the point I hear a given frequency loud and clear. With recruitment factored in, a SPL of 10db in some cases above the db HL can be enough. With my 115db HL at 2000Hz, a SPL of 125 is enough. If they can get the gain to 95, ill start to hear 20db sounds and any sound 30db and up will sound the same loudness because of the SPL limit. They can use tricks to emulate a larger dynamic range such as giving a 1db higher gain/SPL for every 5db louder sound. So much I like to know, so many questions ill be asking!

First of all, if I'm able to have aided scores of 60-70 dB at 250-750 Hz (which I did pre-CI), I'm still hearing environmental sounds, so why is it necessary to bring my aided score to 0 dB?

In your case that would be impossible but id definately have tried to bring it better than 60db! Id hear almost nothing at 60db HL! May I ask why you only got a 30db gain before CI?

Second, I was always able to guage how loud I spoke by feeling vibrations in my throat.

Not so easy for me unless im talking so loud I feel strain my my throat. Also I have no idea how well people with normal hearing hear and sounds that sound "normal" to me sound loud to others. This is one reason I want to get my treshold down to 0-20db so ill hear as loud as others hear and thus I can better control how loud I talk.

 

[Hear Again]

In your case that would be impossible but id definately have tried to bring it better than 60db! Id hear almost nothing at 60db HL! May I ask why you only got a 30db gain before CI?

A 30 dB gain isn't unusual. In fact, it's pretty standard. Generally someone who hears at 90 dB unaided will hear at 60 dB with rare exceptions. By the way, I don't consider 30 dB to be "only a 30 dB gain" since it allowed me to hear low frequencies at 250 Hz as well as environmental sounds. In my case, it wouldn't have made any difference if I had aided scores above 60 dB since I had a severe lack of clarity not to mention the fact that although my hearing aids were turned up as far as they could go amplification wise, I could barely hear people talk even if they were standing a foot away from me. Remember too, that I'm totally blind and can't rely on lipreading.

 

[Hear Again]

Not so easy for me unless im talking so loud I feel strain my my throat. Also I have no idea how well people with normal hearing hear and sounds that sound "normal" to me sound loud to others. This is one reason I want to get my treshold down to 0-20db so ill hear as loud as others hear and thus I can better control how loud I talk.

It doesn't matter how loud you talk since it's the vibration that tells you how loud your voice is. I can tell that a slight vibration means I'm talking softly while a strong vibration means I'm talking loud.

As for you hearing at 0-20 dB, that may not matter since the loudness of what you hear may be negatively affected by the degree of your loss.

 

[LadySekhmet]

You showed your audiogram in another post where your loss was only ~75db at 250Hz but got to 105db, 110db, 115db, 120db at 500, 1000, 2000, 4000Hz respectivately. This is similar to mine except for 500Hz. Do you have an audiogram just before getting CI? Ill be able to compare and this will help me gain perspective.



So yours was worse than 75db at 250Hz bilaterally when you got CI?

Not so easy for me unless im talking so loud I feel strain my my throat. Also I have no idea how well people with normal hearing hear and sounds that sound "normal" to me sound loud to others. This is one reason I want to get my treshold down to 0-20db so ill hear as loud as others hear and thus I can better control how loud I talk.

First Paragraph - The Audiogram that I showed you showed you the pre-CI loss. A couple years before, I was able to detect slightly in the high pitches, and I didn't have any NR. It was obviously that my loss was getting worse to the point where I would only hear the low frequencies...that's not exactly great when you have HA's.

Second Paragraph - Hmm...I have to double check on that, but I was told that my left has a 105 db loss, and my right has 96 Db loss. So I do not know why I have it marked on 75 (even though I copied exactly the same from my evaluation). I think when it hits the 250Hz, I can really hear it, while at 500 Hz, it drops drastically. So, I don't know if they look at the 500 Hz because that's where the 105 falls in. I assume that it would be at 60 db at 250 Hz, dropping drastically for my right. I haven't gotten tested for my residual hearing since...maybe I should next time to be sure. After the testings for both ears post CI, it's exactly the same as it was pre-CI so I didn't lose anything. Hope that make sense.

Third Paragraph - I agree with you. I thought I sound normal when I speak, but everyone would say that I do speak loud. It's because I cannot "hear" myself speak since the sounds are going OUT then around to your ear. While for a speaking person across from you would have the sounds directly to you. Does that make sense? It's also probably because you can't hear the higher frequencies, and I think that kind of helps. After I got the CI's, people would say that I speak a lot better and softer..it's because I can hear!