Autism and ASL

[happycl8]

I am parent of 8 kids and 3 of my kids are on the autism spectrum. My youngest is two is the most severe and he is nonverbal (he has not babbled like mamama or dadadad) but uses sign-ASL. He has about 15-30 sounds.

I am trying to get him into a deaf school (toddler/preschool) in Berkeley, CA that teaches SEE but accepts everyone. I wanted him to go to the School of Deaf in Fremont but they only accept deaf children. I want him to learn ASL not SEE.

It has been really hard to get his ABA therapists to sign more for him as well as his Speech Therapists. No one is supportive of using signing with a hearing autistic it seems and/or they are resistant to learning or claim they don;t have the time. I have hired a wonderful deaf man to come to our house once a week to teach our family signs so we can learn to communicate with my son more. He has been very helpful.

I spoke to the deaf school in Berkeley and they say it is really hard to find any speech therapist and ABA therapist who fluent in ASL. WOW is all I can say.

I was really mad when the speech therapist said that I would limit his abilities if I immerse him in the deaf culture. I see the deaf as extremely functional and successful in this world. I want my son to have some kind of community even if he may never speak a word.


I need to know.... Is the deaf community accepting of hearing autistics who sign? Do any of you communicate with autistics who are not deaf? How would you feel about autistic hearing people using your language? Are you ok with that? Would my son be accepted into your community when he is older?

Right now Dad is suddenly more interested in learning signs when my son is starting to use them to communicate with him. My older kids are a bit reticent because they are so shy and get embarrassed easily. I am trying to learn as many signs as possible but what makes it hard is learning the grammar of ASL.

All I want is for my son to be able to communicate and have friends one day.

It would be great to find an ABA therapist who is fluent in ASL.


What is the best way to teach autistic children sign language? How do parents learn sign language as soon as possible? How do you study? What are the techniques you use to learn the language?

 

[Bottesini]

Wouldn't you be better off asking this on a parenting site for autistic children? There is probably only one person here who has experience working with hearing, signing, autistic children.

 

[happycl8]

Honestly I haven't found an autism parenting site and no one ever considers having their hearing autistic raised/educated in the deaf community. I think I am the only ready to hand him over to a deaf family to raise or a deaf school to educate.
Currently we spend a lot of our time at the Deaf Community Center. It is the one place my son really enjoys and has good behavior. Everyone else he screams, cries, throw things, hits himself and runs away quickly. At the Deaf Community Center, my son seems normal and interacts with people. Maybe it is because it is quiet in a deaf community and noise bothers my son. I don;t know. Or maybe the pressure to talk is not there. No one is talking and he doesn't feel excluded. I don;t know but he is happy around deaf events. My friend who is deaf sees a huge difference in behavior with my son when he is at DCC versus elsewhere. I do too.

 

[Bottesini]

Honestly I haven't found an autism parenting site and no one ever considers having their hearing autistic raised/educated in the deaf community. I think I am the only ready to hand him over to a deaf family to raise or a deaf school to educate.
Currently we spend a lot of our time at the Deaf Community Center. It is the one place my son really enjoys and has good behavior. Everyone else he screams, cries, throw things, hits himself and runs away quickly. At the Deaf Community Center, my son seems normal and interacts with people. Maybe it is because it is quiet in a deaf community and noise bothers my son. I don;t know. Or maybe the pressure to talk is not there. No one is talking and he doesn't feel excluded. I don;t know but he is happy around deaf events. My friend who is deaf sees a huge difference in behavior with my son when he is at DCC versus elsewhere. I do too.

On the bolded, I am fairly certain that must be true!

If your child stresses you so much you would like to give him away, it's a bigger problem than just ASL.

You should seek mental health treatment to deal with this.

 

[happycl8]

Um. I don;t think you understand me. I am raising my son but it is hard for me because there are some things I do not know how to navigate for him while my deaf friends may know. Like how to order from a fast food restaurant like a drive through. I am also not fluent enough with signs. I am learning but he starts playing with his toys and I want to be able to sign to him as he is playing and I have to stop look up the word and then the moment is lost. His attention is gone and he moved on to something else. It is hard to raise a child who tries to bite himself or bang his head when he is frustrated. He hardly sleeps and he is very clingy to me. I cannot even go to the restroom without him crying. Bottisini...your comments are rude. I just want the best for my son and if I am not good enough I am willing to find something better for him or try to find a role model who can help him. I can see he is frustrated here at home because my older kids do not know how to sign well and he wants to communicate and can't.

 

[Bottesini]

Um. I don;t think you understand me. I am raising my son but it is hard for me because there are some things I do not know how to navigate for him while my deaf friends may know. Like how to order from a fast food restaurant like a drive through. I am also not fluent enough with signs. I am learning but he starts playing with his toys and I want to be able to sign to him as he is playing and I have to stop look up the word and then the moment is lost. His attention is gone and he moved on to something else. It is hard to raise a child who tries to bite himself or bang his head when he is frustrated. He hardly sleeps and he is very clingy to me. I cannot even go to the restroom without him crying. Bottisini...your comments are rude. I just want the best for my son and if I am not good enough I am willing to find something better for him or try to find a role model who can help him. I can see he is frustrated here at home because my older kids do not know how to sign well and he wants to communicate and can't.

Ok. I have autism, and have a lot more sympathy for your son's place in life than you may imagine.

Hopefully when he is grown up , he will have a place where people don't get all upset by the way he may phrase anything.

My parents worked very hard with me, and also found programs to help me, and they hadn't had a deaf autistic kid before.

And your attitude is very, very, wrong. And it is bad for your son.

 

[jonnyghost]

Ok. I have autism, and have a lot more sympathy for your son's place in life than you may imagine.

Hopefully when he is grown up , he will have a place where people don't get all upset by the way he may phrase anything.

My parents worked very hard with me, and also found programs to help me, and they hadn't had a deaf autistic kid before.

And your attitude is very, very, wrong. And it is bad for your son.

I have to agree. I have sensory issues as well and can understand why your son likes quiet. So maybe sign language is good for him but the rest of what you are saying seems very extream.

With autism your son will have requirements unique to people on the spectrum. It's best to address it as it is. ASL might be part of that program but so will a bunch of other stuff not related to being deaf.

 

[deafdyke]

I have to agree. I have sensory issues as well and can understand why your son likes quiet. So maybe sign language is good for him but the rest of what you are saying seems very extream.

With autism your son will have requirements unique to people on the spectrum. It's best to address it as it is. ASL might be part of that program but so will a bunch of other stuff not related to being deaf.

AMEN! I think you're getting a little too specialist here......I think it's almost unheard of for a hearing autistic kid to learn ASL, and to attend a School for the Deaf. Yes, some hearing autistic kids learn Sign, but more in an ACC(augmentive and alternative communication) way rather then an actual full language. Most schools for the Deaf really don't have a lot of autism specific resources...... I wish it was different, I really do...but the two disabilities are VERY different....Look into autism specific stuff....Also maybe look into genetic testing...your kids may have something genetic......

 

[Frisky Feline]

Um. I don;t think you understand me. I am raising my son but it is hard for me because there are some things I do not know how to navigate for him while my deaf friends may know. Like how to order from a fast food restaurant like a drive through. I am also not fluent enough with signs. I am learning but he starts playing with his toys and I want to be able to sign to him as he is playing and I have to stop look up the word and then the moment is lost. His attention is gone and he moved on to something else. It is hard to raise a child who tries to bite himself or bang his head when he is frustrated. He hardly sleeps and he is very clingy to me. I cannot even go to the restroom without him crying. Bottisini...your comments are rude. I just want the best for my son and if I am not good enough I am willing to find something better for him or try to find a role model who can help him. I can see he is frustrated here at home because my older kids do not know how to sign well and he wants to communicate and can't.

I wonder if voc. reh will be able to help out to place your kid in the ASL ENVIRONMENT ? It has to be something else.

 

[caz12]

unless he deaf I no see how he get right help....my daughter who not deaf did makoton lots autistic kids did at the time..to a certain level it help but full on bsl it cause a lot of confusion seeing me use it..
there young girl in my daughters residential home BSL tried with her and failed her, life not so good...myself would forget the grammar on child it not easy.
I out of educational loop with children these days and could be wrong but Bot given you good advice...AT the time when my daughter small I had lots of problems with myself and coming to terms with everything and BSL was new to me I found it hard used as young adult at the time..born hearing and flung into deaf world at 30.i met autistic deaf who good signers but they were DEAF,met autistic who not and gradually they stopped using signs.

 

[Frisky Feline]

have you gone to autism support network online? i thought this parenting site is very good.

http://www.autismsupportnetwork.com/

 

[soutthpaw]

I am on the spectrum too, Here is an idea, ever think about offering a room in your home for a Deaf person in exchange for them teaching the family ASL. Or even someone in and ASL interpreting program. notice I said the family. to give your child a rich language environment he needs to be surrounded by people who sign. They don't have to be fluent either. You are in the SF Bay area that has a very large Deaf community. should not be hard to find someone, make flyers and contact the local colleges and Deaf schools/programs. Our world is highly networked community. once you get the word out you should have some good response.

a really good Autism Forum: http://wrongplanet.net/forums/

 

[deafdyke]

unless he deaf I no see how he get right help....my daughter who not deaf did makoton lots autistic kids did at the time..to a certain level it help but full on bsl it cause a lot of confusion seeing me use it..
there young girl in my daughters residential home BSL tried with her and failed her, life not so good...myself would forget the grammar on child it not easy.
I out of educational loop with children these days and could be wrong but Bot given you good advice...AT the time when my daughter small I had lots of problems with myself and coming to terms with everything and BSL was new to me I found it hard used as young adult at the time..born hearing and flung into deaf world at 30.i met autistic deaf who good signers but they were DEAF,met autistic who not and gradually they stopped using signs.

Yeah, I've often wondered why Makaton isn't more popular here among the autistic and other severely special needs population. And let me guess most of the DEAF autistic folks you met were relatively high functioning right?
To the OP: I don't mean to be unwelcoming .....but while autistic kids may be able to use some signs to communicate, they generally will never be able to use Signs as FLUENT LANGUAGE the way a Deaf person would.....especially with interpreting facial expressions etc..... I know you want a community and a place to belong for your son, but there's the autistic community. There are also schools for autistic children as well. It almost feels like you're one of those first year special ed students teachers we get so often, who want to teach ASL to handicapped children. It seems you're almost lumping all types of disabilities together and assuming that b/c ASL is seen as something for kids with disabilities, that it will automaticly help your son.
I really do think you'd have MUCH better luck with going after traditional autistic interventions, schools and even testing to maybe see if the autism might be able to be treated/ameliorated or even cured.....

 

[Frisky Feline]

My cousin used ASL to her daughter with austism. she started picking up more verbals then they stopped using ASL.

 

[deafdyke]

My cousin used ASL to her daughter with austism. she started picking up more verbals then they stopped using ASL.

Signs or actual grammartical ASL as a whole language? As I said above, yes Signs can be used in an augmentive and alternative communication way,(ie Signs to communicate basic wants/needs) but, that's a far cry from using it as a LANGUAGE

 

[jonnyghost]

Yeah, I've often wondered why Makaton isn't more popular here among the autistic and other severely special needs population. And let me guess most of the DEAF autistic folks you met were relatively high functioning right?
To the OP: I don't mean to be unwelcoming .....but while autistic kids may be able to use some signs to communicate, they generally will never be able to use Signs as FLUENT LANGUAGE the way a Deaf person would.....especially with interpreting facial expressions etc..... I know you want a community and a place to belong for your son, but there's the autistic community. There are also schools for autistic children as well. It almost feels like you're one of those first year special ed students teachers we get so often, who want to teach ASL to handicapped children. It seems you're almost lumping all types of disabilities together and assuming that b/c ASL is seen as something for kids with disabilities, that it will automaticly help your son.
I really do think you'd have MUCH better luck with going after traditional autistic interventions, schools and even testing to maybe see if the autism might be able to be treated/ameliorated or even cured.....

You do realize that it's a large group of people you're talking about there with a wide variety of abilities that all fall somewhere on a spectrum.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

One thing that pops out at me is that your family hasn't really embraced this. They are not signing to him. You really need to sit them down, because living in a family you can't communicate with is horrible. Not only does it cause stress and the obvious communication issues, it comes across as rejection. I don't interact with my family because they refused long ago to learn how to interact with me, and I can't actually talk to them without there always being a barrier between us like a computer screen or a pad and paper and I hate it, it doesn't allow for free flow of conversation. I don't even think about my family anymore and I'm going to be relieved when my parents die and my brother just doesn't exist to me, we never talk and I haven't seen him in years. Which is a really crappy way to deal with family.

 

[deafdyke]

You do realize that it's a large group of people you're talking about there with a wide variety of abilities that all fall somewhere on a spectrum.

Even with that, most autistic folks really won't be able to master it as a SOPHISTICATED LANGUAGE. Note I said autistic....Not Asperger's....Some Aspies may be able to understand the grammar/syntax etc, but they won't get the meat and potatoes of the language.....Language is so much more then words....Besides in this case, the mother has said that her son is severely affected. It almost reminds me of that case in New Zealand that Grummer told us about where that mom of a Down's kid fought for her to learn NZSL thinking it would "help her" and was utterly convinced that it HAD helped her.....but her daughter couldn't even take part in simple NZSL games...
I get that Sign can help in an augmentive and alternative communication way for autistic and mentally disabled people......Not discounting that fact....but there's a huge difference between using Sign via AAC communication vs using something as a sophiscated language tool...

 

[jonnyghost]

Even with that, most autistic folks really won't be able to master it as a SOPHISTICATED LANGUAGE.

Now that's a big step. Before you claimed they wouldn't be able to use it as a language at all.

Note I said autistic....Not Asperger's....Some Aspies may be able to understand the grammar/syntax etc, but they won't get the meat and potatoes of the language

With the DSM4 aspergers is on the autism spectrum. With the DSM5 They have eliminated the diagnosis of aspergers and it is now all autism so either way if you're talking about autism you're talking about a wide variety of people.[/QUOTE]

.....Language is so much more then words....

Yes, and again every autistic is different. Some are severely impaired when reading body language and some are not. Social cues are missed for reasons other than body language such as tone of voice that would not affect someones ability to learn ASL.

Besides in this case, the mother has said that her son is severely affected.

If you where simply referring to her son and not autistics then we don't need to argue about it. Personally I wouldn't be so bold about a kid I'd never met before though. Making assumption about his ability to learn or not to learn based on one sentence by an upset parent? Plus he is 2. Kids make all kinds of leaps and bounds at that age, even autistic ones.