Abortion vs Forced Miscarriage

VamPyroX

VamPyroX

bloody phreak from hell
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I had a discussion with some friends about people who were pregnant, had abortions, and/or miscarriages.

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While there's already a heated debate on whether abortion is ethically right or wrong, the real discussion we had was which was worse... abortion or forced miscarriage.

When I say "forced miscarriage", I am referring to those who do things to themselves to force a miscarriage through the use of drugs, alcohol, etc.


ABORTION?

When a woman gets pregnant and decides not to keep the baby, she goes to have an abortion. She's doing it the "proper" way and it's usually during the first tri-mester through medical procedures or "morning-after pills". However, the cost of abortions vary on when it's done. They range from $350 to $3,000 depending on when it's done. The longer women wait, the more it costs. Some insurance companies cover this.


FORCED MISCARRIAGE?

When a woman gets pregnant and decides not to keep the baby, but she doesn't want to have an abortion due to the following reasons: can't afford to have an abortion; wants to avoid the public view of being an abortionist; doesn't want documentation that she willingly had an abortion; hide shame from family; etc. So, she uses other means to cause a miscarriage. She does drugs and alcohol (even after she finds out she's pregnant), abuses herself, et cetera... causing a miscarriage.


LINKS

New Link Between Alcohol and Miscarriage Found
Heavy alcohol consumption during pregnancy has been associated with an increased risk of miscarriage in the second trimester.
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Alcohol and miscarriage Nutrition Research Newsletter - Find Articles
"Any toxin, anything that can affect [egg] quality, will increase the risk of miscarriage -- and alcohol is one of those toxins," Lockwood says.
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Understanding miscarriage
Smoking, drinking, and using drugs: Smoking a lot, drinking too much alcohol, and using drugs like cocaine and ecstasy during pregnancy can all increase your risk for miscarriage. And some studies show an association between drinking four or more cups of coffee a day and a higher risk of miscarriage.
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QUESTION

Which is worse... having an abortion or having a forced miscarriage? Why?

If you had to name one of them a "murderer", which would it be? Why?


NOTE: This is a debate on which is worse. Some of you may see both as bad, but that isn't the issue... only which is the worse of the two. Thanks.
 
Forced miscarriage is worse cuz of the danger associated to the mother.

Suppose by all doing that doesnt result in a miscarriage and the baby is born with a lot of problems? That is just horrible for the child to live with that cuz the mother simply didnt want him or her.
 
That is why we should never outlaw abortation.

Im not pro abortion, and NOT pro-life. I am PRO-CHOICE!

shel90 said:
Forced miscarriage is worse cuz of the danger associated to the mother.

Suppose by all doing that doesnt result in a miscarriage and the baby is born with a lot of problems? That is just horrible for the child to live with that cuz the mother simply didnt want him or her.
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I voted forced miscarriage as WORST.

I only support abortion for health reasons including life-threatening for a mother or a child.

That´s why I support pro-choice.
 
Both are bad in my opinion, abortion kills, and force miscarriage kills, that's why I'm pro-life, a right to live. ;)
 
VamPyroX said:
...This is a debate on which is worse. Some of you may see both as bad, but that isn't the issue... only which is the worse of the two. Thanks.
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What do you mean by "worse"? Do you mean which way is worse for the baby? Or do you mean which way is worse, legally? Or do you mean which way is worse for the mother, medically? Or do you mean which way is worse morally?
 
Reba said:
What do you mean by "worse"? Do you mean which way is worse for the baby? Or do you mean which way is worse, legally? Or do you mean which way is worse for the mother, medically? Or do you mean which way is worse morally?
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... from any perspective.

It could be worse for the mother, the baby, the law, etc...
 
Let me quote this from my friend.

"A young teen mother was so poor and had her child but she also had a hard life. Many pro-choicers believed that woman should abort her child in order to save the mother's life. It also will 'save' her child's life from being harden life. Her child's name is Oprah Winfrey."

In the other example --

"Normally, there were many pro-choicers believed that Down Sydrome people (or a kind of 'disabled' person) should be aborted in the order to save a mother's happines from the suffering of all grieved years. In the eyes of view, Down Sydrome people did not need to be existed for any 'good' reason.
Which was Professor Jerome Lejeune disagreed, because of his discoverer of the chromosomal pattern of Down’s syndrome once related to us a story he had heard from a geneticist colleague which illustrates this well:

'Many years ago, my father was a Jewish physician in Braunau, Austria. On one particular day, two babies had been delivered by one of his colleagues. One was a fine, healthy boy with a strong cry. His parents were extremely proud and happy. The other was a little girl, but her parents were extremely sad, for she was a Mongoloid baby. I followed them both for almost fifty years. The girl grew up, living at home, and was finally destined to be the one who nursed her mother through a very long and lingering illness after a stroke. I do not remember her name. I do, however, remember the boy’s name. He died in a bunker in Berlin. His name was Adolf Hitler.
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So... I am PRO-LIFE. Only allow abortion if woman will die from being pregnant.
 
PuyoPiyo said:
Let me quote this from my friend.



So... I am PRO-LIFE. Only allow abortion if woman will die from being pregnant.
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Pro-choice, not pro-life.

I thought the same as you when I support Pro-Life until I found out what I say is wrong because I support abortion for healthy reasons including life-threating which means belong part of pro-choice.

If you are for pro-life which mean that you put fetus rights first before mother's risk health.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Pro-choice, not pro-life.

I thought the same as you when I support Pro-Life until I found out what I say is wrong because I support abortion for healthy reasons including life-threating which means belong part of pro-choice.

If you are for pro-life which mean that you put fetus rights first before mother's risk health.
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Oh. Pro-Choice? I am definitely not support girls to abortion after the rape, or lack of income, or whatever.
 
PuyoPiyo said:
Let me quote this from my friend.

"A young teen mother was so poor and had her child but she also had a hard life. Many pro-choicers believed that woman should abort her child in order to save the mother's life. It also will 'save' her child's life from being harden life. Her child's name is Oprah Winfrey."
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I disagree on this and would advise a teen mother to give a baby up for an adoption if she is sure that she is not right mother to give her baby love and attention.

In the other example --

"Normally, there were many pro-choicers believed that Down Sydrome people (or a kind of 'disabled' person) should be aborted in the order to save a mother's happines from the suffering of all grieved years. In the eyes of view, Down Sydrome people did not need to be existed for any 'good' reason.
Which was Professor Jerome Lejeune disagreed, because of his discoverer of the chromosomal pattern of Down’s syndrome once related to us a story he had heard from a geneticist colleague which illustrates this well:
Click to expand...

I disagree to abort Down sydrome babies but severe deformed babies like this severe deformed babies - Google Bilder which is unfair for them suffer like this... Perhap they won't stay alive long or what which is unfair.

'Many years ago, my father was a Jewish physician in Braunau, Austria. On one particular day, two babies had been delivered by one of his colleagues. One was a fine, healthy boy with a strong cry. His parents were extremely proud and happy. The other was a little girl, but her parents were extremely sad, for she was a Mongoloid baby. I followed them both for almost fifty years. The girl grew up, living at home, and was finally destined to be the one who nursed her mother through a very long and lingering illness after a stroke. I do not remember her name. I do, however, remember the boy’s name. He died in a bunker in Berlin. His name was Adolf Hitler.
Click to expand...

If the parents who can't acheive to take care of Mongoloid or Down Sydrome babies then give them up for an adoption or send them to home to take care of is great than abort them.
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PuyoPiyo said:
Oh. Pro-Choice? I am definitely not support girls to abortion after the rape, or lack of income, or whatever.
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yes me either. I rather to give babies up for an adoption instead of abort them.

I am force to decide for pro-choice because of mother's and baby's risk life (life threatening). If I am for pro-life then mother and baby are dead or damage their health... The people will end to abort babies illegal and throw babies to rubbish bin which is terrible.

In the past, German was strict about abortion law, that's how drive Germans illegal and kill babies and throw them to lake, put babies in the plastic, etc or go to Holland to abort their babies... German abortion law was loose then low abortion rate.... and agree to give babies up for an adoption.
 
Abortion and forced miscarriage are the worse ones. I've had experienced thru an abortion before and it is very trauma experience for me. I went to see psychologist for one year due to trauma after seein' a real life baby died in a jar with my own blood in it. I was forced to have an abortion by my own mother.

As for forced miscarriage... it is not a good idea, either. What if, the unborn baby is still alive until givin' birth ? In some cases, it could cause the unborn baby some complications in his/her health... such as mental retard, or low IQ or things like that.

I am pro-life.....
 
Liebling:-))) said:
I disagree on this and would advise a teen mother to give a baby up for an adoption if she is sure that she is not right mother to give her baby love and attention.

Well what if the baby want to stay with real mom? I have some friends who are adopted by different parents, and they usually left their own foster parents to find their own real parents. One of them was my LONGEST ex-girlfriend.

I disagree to abort Down sydrome babies but severe deformed babies like this severe deformed babies - Google Bilder which is unfair for them suffer like this... Perhap they won't stay alive long or what which is unfair.

Yeah I agree with you on this one.

If the parents who can't acheive to take care of Mongoloid or Down Sydrome babies then give them up for an adoption or send them to home to take care of is great than abort them.
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Well, it's STILL parent's fault because they believe in such stupid "discrimination". I don't blame the baby, but blame the parents...
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Well, I'm full pro-choice, that let females to make decide for abortion or miscarriage for any reason or even no reason if they don't want have baby or children, also birth control can be accidently to make unsuccessful for some women then cause to become pregent and want end up for abortion or miscarriage. For other reason or no reason, that their personal choice and no needed to tell about religion issue, remember about separate in government and religion.

I'm support of abortion law that passed in 1973 and forced some states to overturn the abortion restricted and more opening mind for women.

Miscarriage is worse than abortion because much more risky for women.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
yes me either. I rather to give babies up for an adoption instead of abort them.

I am force to decide for pro-choice because of mother's and baby's risk life (life threatening). If I am for pro-life then mother and baby are dead or damage their health... The people will end to abort babies illegal and throw babies to rubbish bin which is terrible.

In the past, German was strict about abortion law, that's how drive Germans illegal and kill babies and throw them to lake, put babies in the plastic, etc or go to Holland to abort their babies... German abortion law was loose then low abortion rate.... and agree to give babies up for an adoption.
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Wow, that's awful.. Well in here, America, we only can abort the baby before 3 months because the science proofed that it does not affect the baby with pain while aborting before 3 months. Oddly, ne?
 
PuyoPiyo said:
Oh. Pro-Choice? I am definitely not support girls to abortion after the rape, or lack of income, or whatever.
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Pro-lifers sympathize with the unborn, while Pro-choicers sympathize the mothers.

Pro-choice supports the mother's right for abortion no matter what reason and woman should have complete control over her fertility and pregnancy, and does not consider a fetus to have the full legal rights of a human being

Pro-Life supports a right to life for the unborn child, believes that fetus have the full rights to live.
 
Cheri said:
Pro-lifers sympathize with the unborn, while Pro-choicers sympathize the mothers.

Pro-choice supports the mother's right for abortion no matter what reason and woman should have complete control over her fertility and pregnancy, and does not consider a fetus to have the full legal rights of a human being

Pro-Life supports a right to life for the unborn child, believes that fetus have the full rights to live.
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Then, what's the one would we call about this "Do not support abortion, but only when mother risk her life". Pro-Life is not this, and Pro-Choice is not this, then what's other one?
 
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