A teacher of the deaf talks about using Cued Speech

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZDUp5E1ZzI&feature=related]YouTube - A teacher of the deaf talks about using Cued Speech[/ame]

This video is captioned.
 
Another anecdotal report from Great Britain. I suggest the fact that the child she is referring to was fluent in BSL (his L1 language) contributed more to the successes he has had than CS.
 
If someone is pre-lingually (or peri-lingually deaf) they're NEVER going to have a "sound base" in their head (without the use of CI).

CS may give visual "sound patterns" of speech, but this is still a visual base not a sound base (your brain can't create something that doesn't exist in your experiential memory (which is true for profound deaf, especially who also have AN or CAPD/APD)


It's like I have no ability to experience and have a "sound base" for stereo sounds ... I have never had ANY hearing (+120db HL all freq) on my right side ... as such I my brain has never experienced stereo listening.

While I can logically extrapolate what stereo might be like based on my knowledge of sound, theoretical understanding of stereo sound, and first hand experiential knowledge of "visual stereo" (ie 3D/ depth perception etc) ... I can't "hear it" in my head, ie "create a stereo sound base", JUST like the student this woman is speaking of can't create a "sound base" by using Cuing. (They can create a visual "sound pattern" base built on Cuing patterns to imitate sound, but it's still apples and oranges if you have not experienced auditory understanding of sounds, especially speech sounds)


This might sound like I'm "coming down hard" on Cuing ... I'm not. I DO think that it can serve a useful purpose in some/many cases as a supplementary "tool" - however this video is a prime example of how many "professionals" mis-understand what Cuing does for a deaf (and Hoh person). It does NOT create a "sound memory", rather it creates a knowledge of sound patterns through a visual medium (thus creating a VISUAL pattern of spoken English, nor an aural one.


FWIW, I'm actaully considering learning Cuing specifically because I think it would help if/when I elect to take some Linguistic, Latin & Spanish university courses (where ASL would be a helpful component for the English parts of the Lectures etc, but would be lacking in relaying phonetic info ... and showing me how to pronounce new & foreign words - which is always VERY difficult for Hoh & deaf even when we have "hearing voices" in our primary spoken language.

In my case I learning about 70% of my English sounds when my left ear had normal or mild loss (right has always been deaf). As long as people where in the right location (and I didn't have one of my nearly constant ear infections) I was able to distinguish sounds fairly well during my pre-lingual ("listening age") and peri-lingual ("reciting age")... my hearing went from normal/mild to mild/mod flux (with mild APD) with the odd exception of VERY good hearing at 8K, by the time I was in the middle of elementary school. As such I knew basic word sounds, but by the time I was really learning to read (more than "hat, bat, time, line" etc) I had lost access to how sounds blend together especially "sh,th,st,thr,ou,ae,ea,ch,s,"etc which now are either "blurry" or missing altogether due to the HL & APD.

For ME Cuing would likely provide me with a combination of aural and visual "sounds" ... though because of the way my brain "works" I'm almost certain that my brain will favour the visual and silence any aural "signals" as distracting lol. I've always had a very "Deaf Brain" ... so much so that when I get overwhelmed with sounds, sometimes my brain effectively "mutes" everything - turning all the audio input into a sort of "muddy" pink noise or silencing everything altogether as if it hit "mute" on a speaker!


Sorry , I didn't mean to ramble! (I can't sleep....)
 
Anij said:
If someone is pre-lingually (or peri-lingually deaf) they're NEVER going to have a "sound base" in their head (without the use of CI).

CS may give visual "sound patterns" of speech, but this is still a visual base not a sound base (your brain can't create something that doesn't exist in your experiential memory
Click to expand...

I agree with that. My mum learnt CS when I was very young and tried it with me for about 1 and half years I couldn't get it, even I tried hard. I still can't understand, it difficult to explain. If I can't lipread I can't understand, CS didn't help me at all.

Great it works for some kids. Not everyone though.

There was mention that boy can't learn literacy skills well enough using BSL and without CS. They can. I met BSL users with much better than literacy skills than oral users.
 
Anij said:
If someone is pre-lingually (or peri-lingually deaf) they're NEVER going to have a "sound base" in their head (without the use of CI).

CS may give visual "sound patterns" of speech, but this is still a visual base not a sound base (your brain can't create something that doesn't exist in your experiential memory (which is true for profound deaf, especially who also have AN or CAPD/APD)


It's like I have no ability to experience and have a "sound base" for stereo sounds ... I have never had ANY hearing (+120db HL all freq) on my right side ... as such I my brain has never experienced stereo listening.

While I can logically extrapolate what stereo might be like based on my knowledge of sound, theoretical understanding of stereo sound, and first hand experiential knowledge of "visual stereo" (ie 3D/ depth perception etc) ... I can't "hear it" in my head, ie "create a stereo sound base", JUST like the student this woman is speaking of can't create a "sound base" by using Cuing. (They can create a visual "sound pattern" base built on Cuing patterns to imitate sound, but it's still apples and oranges if you have not experienced auditory understanding of sounds, especially speech sounds)


This might sound like I'm "coming down hard" on Cuing ... I'm not. I DO think that it can serve a useful purpose in some/many cases as a supplementary "tool" - however this video is a prime example of how many "professionals" mis-understand what Cuing does for a deaf (and Hoh person). It does NOT create a "sound memory", rather it creates a knowledge of sound patterns through a visual medium (thus creating a VISUAL pattern of spoken English, nor an aural one.


FWIW, I'm actaully considering learning Cuing specifically because I think it would help if/when I elect to take some Linguistic, Latin & Spanish university courses (where ASL would be a helpful component for the English parts of the Lectures etc, but would be lacking in relaying phonetic info ... and showing me how to pronounce new & foreign words - which is always VERY difficult for Hoh & deaf even when we have "hearing voices" in our primary spoken language.

In my case I learning about 70% of my English sounds when my left ear had normal or mild loss (right has always been deaf). As long as people where in the right location (and I didn't have one of my nearly constant ear infections) I was able to distinguish sounds fairly well during my pre-lingual ("listening age") and peri-lingual ("reciting age")... my hearing went from normal/mild to mild/mod flux (with mild APD) with the odd exception of VERY good hearing at 8K, by the time I was in the middle of elementary school. As such I knew basic word sounds, but by the time I was really learning to read (more than "hat, bat, time, line" etc) I had lost access to how sounds blend together especially "sh,th,st,thr,ou,ae,ea,ch,s,"etc which now are either "blurry" or missing altogether due to the HL & APD.

For ME Cuing would likely provide me with a combination of aural and visual "sounds" ... though because of the way my brain "works" I'm almost certain that my brain will favour the visual and silence any aural "signals" as distracting lol. I've always had a very "Deaf Brain" ... so much so that when I get overwhelmed with sounds, sometimes my brain effectively "mutes" everything - turning all the audio input into a sort of "muddy" pink noise or silencing everything altogether as if it hit "mute" on a speaker!


Sorry , I didn't mean to ramble! (I can't sleep....)
Click to expand...

At least your rambling is accurate and lucid! :lol: We've made those very points numerous times in discussing CS with our resident CS saleswoman. Even cited research and neuropsychology texts to support it. But she just continues to hang onto her misperceptions. Perhaps it is because that is where her paycheck comes from.
 
Speedy Hawk said:
I agree with that. My mum learnt CS when I was very young and tried it with me for about 1 and half years I couldn't get it, even I tried hard. I still can't understand, it difficult to explain. If I can't lipread I can't understand, CS didn't help me at all.

Great it works for some kids. Not everyone though.

There was mention that boy can't learn literacy skills well enough using BSL and without CS. They can. I met BSL users with much better than literacy skills than oral users.
Click to expand...

We have many members who tell the same story of having parents or teachers that attempted CS, but found it to be basically useless.
 
jillio said:
At least your rambling is accurate and lucid! :lol: We've made those very points numerous times in discussing CS with our resident CS saleswoman. Even cited research and neuropsychology texts to support it. But she just continues to hang onto her misperceptions. Perhaps it is because that is where her paycheck comes from.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's why I dont participate in her threads anymore. It is useless.
 
shel90 said:
Yep, that's why I dont participate in her threads anymore. It is useless.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew I was beating my head against a brick wall.:lol: Just couldn't resist!:giggle: No matter how much evidence to the contrary, some people will hold onto their mistaken beliefs like their life depends on it.
 
jillio said:
At least your rambling is accurate and lucid! :lol: We've made those very points numerous times in discussing CS with our resident CS saleswoman. Even cited research and neuropsychology texts to support it. But she just continues to hang onto her misperceptions. Perhaps it is because that is where her paycheck comes from.
Click to expand...

I thought that she was merely a parent who had great success using Cued speech, do you have proof that she is being paid in some way by an organazation that represents Cuing?
 
souggy said:
There's always a savant in everything.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that is a response to this. There are very successful Cuing people, people who know ASL and Cue, and who choose to continue to Cue. Why is another choice always "wrong"?
 
faire_jour said:
I thought that she was merely a parent who had great success using Cued speech, do you have proof that she is being paid in some way by an organazation that represents Cuing?
Click to expand...

I posted that proof eons ago in another thread. Many Ader's remember it. Perhaps you can use the search feature to locate it.
 
faire_jour said:
But you refuse to listen to those who have found great success WITH it.
Click to expand...

Haven't found anyone who has had great success with it. Only people who have used it and pronounced it ineffective. And again, those aren't the parents, but the deaf individuals themselves, as they are the ones with the power to evaluate it.

What is it with your sudden defense of CS? I daresay, you don't use it, and have never even throroughly investigated the history and function of the system.

Just taking another opportunity to start an argument with me, I guess. You are too transparent.
 
faire_jour said:
I don't believe that is a response to this. There are very successful Cuing people, people who know ASL and Cue, and who choose to continue to Cue. Why is another choice always "wrong"?
Click to expand...

Support that statement with more than anecdote, please. I have already done my part by citing in previous threads, quoting the research, and even emailing research out that ADer's would have had to pay for so they could read it. Even emailed such to good old Cloggy.:lol:
 
I don't have any citations, but I have two anecdotes (sorry jillio!). I know of one person who is totally deaf with no CI or anything who grew up cueing. He did well with it until he went to Gally, then dropped CS for ASL. He now just uses it around his family that--to my knowledge--does not know ASL. Otherwise, he uses ASL.

I do know of another person who is totally deaf and was implanted when he was two. He grew up with CS, and dropped it his senior year in high school. He now just speaks. He did well with it also.

I've never cued, personally, so I cannot verify any of that, but those are just two people I know.
 
Wirelessly posted

Actually... Natty, you just proved jillio right. If they were successful, they wouldn't had dropped cued for ASL.
 
Wirelessly posted

jillio said:
faire_jour said:
I don't believe that is a response to this. There are very successful Cuing people, people who know ASL and Cue, and who choose to continue to Cue. Why is another choice always "wrong"?
Click to expand...

Support that statement with more than anecdote, please. I have already done my part by citing in previous threads, quoting the research, and even emailing research out that ADer's would have had to pay for so they could read it. Even emailed such to good old Cloggy.:lol:
Click to expand...

i also know an adult here in utah who cues and knows asl. He grew up cuing and is now in college and continues to cue. I post a link to his blog when i get home.
 
I noticed that there are lots of videos saying how successful the cueing is BUT they are parents, teachers and adults say that. I have not seen single video that kids says it works for them or anyone deaf used CS. Maybe I missed them somehow?
 
Speedy Hawk said:
I noticed that there are lots of videos saying how successful the cueing is BUT they are parents, teachers and adults say that. I have not seen single video that kids says it works for them or anyone deaf used CS. Maybe I missed them somehow?
Click to expand...

I have noticed the same too which is why I dont take those vidoes at face value.
 
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