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[deafbajagal]

Scenario: Deaf school. Hard of hearing kid who has good residual hearing and speaks fairly well. Kid tells me that he can prefers I speak when we discuss new vocabulary words so he can understand better. Administrator of the school says nope- "voice-off" only.

This happened in one of the schools I worked with. I have a problem with this. Shouldn't we be allowing voicing if the student specifically say they need it?

 

[deafdyke]

Maybe a good idea might be to do both. Explain in voice AND Sign. The admin might be afraid that if you explain vocab words in speech, he may not get the benifit of Sign.
Is the kid speech first? I think in the case where the kid is approaching ASL as his second language, then it's OK to explain vocab in spoken English....but also add the ASL sign too, so he gets the benifit of both languages.

 

[marcyp06]

I think tahts the problem though, if the Administrator says no it means no, even if combining... that is something that needs to be addressed for sure. The goal should be educating the child in the best way possible and as long as ASL is the primary method and spoken english is used as a secondary resource it should be allowed.

I have heard of some Deaf shools not allowing kids with implants to go to that school even if their primary language is ASL. I cant wrap my head around that one!

 

[deafbajagal]

I was told NO speech whatsoever. I was shocked.

What the hell happened to Individualized Education Programming? A communication policy trumps a child's needs? Really?

 

[S0rceress0]

Could there be ASL only during class and tutoring with voice afterward? Are rules generally relaxed around informal tutoring sessions?

 

[deafbajagal]

I don't know. I don't work there anymore, but recently something came up at my current job which reminded me of this "policy" in place. I find it absurd.

 

[inmate23]

I have heard of some Deaf shools not allowing kids with implants to go to that school even if their primary language is ASL. I cant wrap my head around that one!

I no here in nz one of the credia for kids is that spoken language MUST be the primaily goal and language used

That might be the reason

Kids with cis get into van asch(the Deaf school for the south island/lower north and kids kicked out of the upper north school kelston)

 

[Hohtopics]

Scenario: Deaf school. Hard of hearing kid who has good residual hearing and speaks fairly well. Kid tells me that he can prefers I speak when we discuss new vocabulary words so he can understand better. Administrator of the school says nope- "voice-off" only.

This happened in one of the schools I worked with. I have a problem with this. Shouldn't we be allowing voicing if the student specifically say they need it?

Another good question is why is this hard of hearing kid at a school for the deaf to begin with? If he has good residual hearing, why isn't he at a public school? What's his history? Just wondering constructively?

 

[shel90]

Question for you DBJ..what if the teacher is deaf with no speech skills? Should the teacher be forced to speak even though the teacher has no speech skills. Also, if the child speaks without signing, would the teacher be able to understand the child?

Yes, I can speak but I prefer not to in the classroom due to the risks of more misunderstandings and wasting everyone's time. All of the children understand ASL so I prefer to use the language that everyone is able to understand.

 

[Reba]

I was told NO speech whatsoever. I was shocked.

What the hell happened to Individualized Education Programming? A communication policy trumps a child's needs? Really?

I thought the IEP was legally binding? If, at the time the IEP was being developed and discussed, why wasn't the conflict brought up then?

 

[Daredevel7]

Question for you DBJ..what if the teacher is deaf with no speech skills? Should the teacher be forced to speak even though the teacher has no speech skills. Also, if the child speaks without signing, would the teacher be able to understand the child?

Good question. It also applies to the teacher with low/basic ASL skills to teach a class full of deaf kids in ASL.

 

[shel90]

Good question. It also applies to the teacher with low/basic ASL skills to teach a class full of deaf kids in ASL.

How is one's deaf person's lack of speech skill related to one's fluency in either languages? To me, that's a separate issue.

 

[Daredevel7]

How is one's deaf person's lack of speech skill related to one's fluency in either languages? To me, that's a separate issue.

Okay, how about this? What about a foreign teacher with a heavy accent?

 

[deafskeptic]

Okay, how about this? What about a foreign teacher with a heavy accent?

He may be able to understand English quite well but just not able to speak it like a native. One of my math teachers in college was from Africia. I think he was from Nigeria. He had a fairly strong accent.

 

[deafdyke]

Another good question is why is this hard of hearing kid at a school for the deaf to begin with? If he has good residual hearing, why isn't he at a public school?

Hohtopics, you do realize that Deaf Ed is CHANGING?!?!? Deaf Schools are no longer for severe/profound oral failures. Virtually all Deaf Schools are hoh friendly and offer hoh services. Heck, almost all dhh kids get hoh style services! (ie speech therapy auditory training etc) There are actually a lot of hoh kids at schools for the deaf nowadays! I know there are a lot of hoh kids at Kansas School, TSD, the California ones, Florida School for the Deaf and Blind, MSSD and a lot of the other schools. Maybe they're there b/c they want to become BILINGAL and function both WITH and without their hearing aids/CIs.
Did you know it's not just deaf kids who struggle at public schools? It's also hoh kids!
Yes, you did well, but you're missing that you were in the minority of kids who really thrived with minimal accomondations.

 

[marcyp06]

Question for you DBJ..what if the teacher is deaf with no speech skills? Should the teacher be forced to speak even though the teacher has no speech skills. Also, if the child speaks without signing, would the teacher be able to understand the child?

Yes, I can speak but I prefer not to in the classroom due to the risks of more misunderstandings and wasting everyone's time. All of the children understand ASL so I prefer to use the language that everyone is able to understand.

But this child was asking for words to be spoken to help back up his understanding of the word in ASL. Is it not fair to provide the child with all forms of communication available if that is what he wants and needs?

 

[marcyp06]

Hohtopics, you do realize that Deaf Ed is CHANGING?!?!? Deaf Schools are no longer for severe/profound oral failures. Virtually all Deaf Schools are hoh friendly and offer hoh services. Heck, almost all dhh kids get hoh style services! (ie speech therapy auditory training etc) There are actually a lot of hoh kids at schools for the deaf nowadays! I know there are a lot of hoh kids at Kansas School, TSD, the California ones, Florida School for the Deaf and Blind, MSSD and a lot of the other schools. Maybe they're there b/c they want to become BILINGAL and function both WITH and without their hearing aids/CIs.
Did you know it's not just deaf kids who struggle at public schools? It's also hoh kids!
Yes, you did well, but you're missing that you were in the minority of kids who really thrived with minimal accomondations.

My best friens is HOH and tried 4 different public schools when young and was misreable. Went to Deaf school and LOVED it- everything she ever wanted and needed and she did well in school because of it. Her brother is full deaf and went to public school whole life and liked that fine. It is individual everyone is different! There has been talk of HEARING kids *gasp* at Deaf schools! Never will one situation fit everyone perfectly!

 

[shel90]

But this child was asking for words to be spoken to help back up his understanding of the word in ASL. Is it not fair to provide the child with all forms of communication available if that is what he wants and needs?

That's fine but what if the teacher is deaf and cant understand speech or doesnt have speech skills? I have a hard time lipreading especially in a large group setting. What happens then?

Many teachers who are deaf dont have speech skills. They apply in programs that use ASL as the primary language because they know that they dont have the speech skills to work with hearing children or in oral deaf ed programs. So, this is sticky for me.

If it is just to help with vocabulary, then a one-on-one lesson with a hearing aid would help.

 

[GrendelQ]

Scenario: Deaf school. Hard of hearing kid who has good residual hearing and speaks fairly well. Kid tells me that he can prefers I speak when we discuss new vocabulary words so he can understand better. Administrator of the school says nope- "voice-off" only.

This happened in one of the schools I worked with. I have a problem with this. Shouldn't we be allowing voicing if the student specifically say they need it?

That seems like a rough situation. I'm imagining what I'd think if my daughter were in a class where even though she can use spoken language, she asks for sign support as well to make it easier for her to gain full comprehension of a subject and we suddenly find out that signing is prohibited. I'd be unhappy with any school that enforces a no-signing policy in general, and if it were suddenly put into effect, despite a child's needs and in conflict with an agreed-upon IEP, I'd probably take it to the mat.

My daughter's school does have a voices-off policy to ensure that all children have equal access, enforced in common areas and when classes are mixed, and I think that's appropriate. But there are also designated specific acoustic access classes where both ASL and English are used with and by those kids who are bimodal/bilingual and benefit from using both languages when learning.

In Shel's scenario, where the child asks for communication in a mode that an individual teacher isn't comfortable using (rather than one prohibited by a school-wide policy), seems like a bilingual aide or interpreter in class may be a good solution. If there were a class with a teacher of the deaf who had little or no spoken English or ASL skills, and my child asked for either spoken language or sign support, I'd try to make sure someone in the room could provide it.

 

[deafdyke]

But there are also designated specific acoustic access classes where both ASL and English are used with and by those kids who are bimodal/bilingual and benefit from using both languages when learning.

Now that would be a really neat idea for smaller Deaf Schools and sizable (but small, ) Deaf programs.....having acoustic access classrooms, for the kids who can significently benifit from auditory input. That would help the kids who need HOH specific intervention, (and it would serve all grade levels) and it would also attract the kind of parents who would normally chose oral first, b/c they think that TC programs don't concentrate enough on speech. (which can be a legitimate critcism, but that is b/c it can be hard to attract talented speech therapists to public school programs, as a lot of the good speech therapists, who are experianced with dhh kids tend to be attracted to private practice.
I'd actually love to see a true bilingal programs approach. One of my best friends (who is Canadian) grew up in a French-English bilingal school. In the morning they did French, in the afternoon they did English. Why couldn't that work with Deaf Ed? I'm actually really excited as it seems like Gally and NAD have reconized that the key to survival of Deaf Ed, is to make Deaf Schools a lot more hoh friendly, so dhh kids can be bilingal.
QUOTE]My best friens is HOH and tried 4 different public schools when young and was misreable. Went to Deaf school and LOVED it- everything she ever wanted and needed and she did well in school because of it. Her brother is full deaf and went to public school whole life and liked that fine. It is individual everyone is different! There has been talk of HEARING kids *gasp* at Deaf schools![/QUOTE] Thank you Marcy!!! In addition, a lot of hoh kids may have significent issues starting around fourth grade, and almost everyone has major issues in middle and high school. It's not just deaf kids who have issues at public schools....