Reality check: Canada's government health care system

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Royale said:
Reality check: Canada's government health care system - CNN.com

What do u think? Please be civil and do not flame this thread.
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I choose free health care with it's flaws over a private insuranced system. Canada is one of many countries with free health care, while there are similarities, there is also differences. What hit me with this article, is that canada is paying themselves out of the flaws with free health care by sending patients to US, while in US, poor people don't get this service. Both US and canada need to change in my opinion, if they want to treat poor people with respect.
 
America really needs free health care too. Millions have no health insurance.
 
flip said:
I choose free health care with it's flaws over a private insuranced system. Canada is one of many countries with free health care, while there are similarities, there is also differences. What hit me with this article, is that canada is paying themselves out of the flaws with free health care by sending patients to US, while in US, poor people don't get this service. Both US and canada need to change in my opinion, if they want to treat poor people with respect.
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FYI: the health care system in Canada is not exactly 100 percent free.

I am Canadian.
 
Royale said:
FYI: the health care system in Canada is not exactly 100 percent free.

I am Canadian.
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Yup, that's right because of heavily funded by taxes, it means taxes in Canada isn't cheap.
 
At times, I have wished that we had switched the health system when a health insurance turned me down because of my deafness. They think I would ask for CI and then drop the insurance after the surgery. That was years ago and I still am CI-free. But on the other hand, the Canadian heath system could use some tweakings like that waiting list. I don't understand why the guy in New Zealand has his hearing aids yanked. I still need more information on this type of health system.
 
That is the reality of the Canadian healthcare. Everyone gets universal healthcare, so everyone can qualify. It's not like in the States where only a handful of people can even afford insurance to get on the waiting list. Any country with universal healthcare, like Britain, would have the long waiting lists because anyone, regardless of income, can be on those lists.

I am just more worried about when our economy is in the decline that the government might make cuts to the healthcare budget since universal healthcare is not covered by our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In my opinion, having to wait for services is better than having no services.

Sorry folks, that is just the reality of a socialist healthcare system. Free though? It come out of paychecks with every taxation! What a misnomer.
 
I believe that Japan and Germany has better universal health care than in Canada and Britain.
 
britain has free health care, but you do have to pay for dentist, opticians appointments
 
Foxrac said:
I believe that Japan and Germany has better universal health care than in Canada and Britain.
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but the added pressure of having to be loyal to a parlicular company that employs you. So like if you get fired and work elsewhere, you have to start over to 'work for the pension' and / or company's backing to serve your health needs. Also - they would screen the prospective employees for 'risk level' of illness, etc so effectively they dont 'pay their way' as much as they claim, since all the means to avoid such has taken place to minimise that expense. Its not a good thing, and its actually worse, its a more 'monetaritian form of dictatorship'. So, i have my doubts for whether Germany or Japan is 'better' , in addition, they are well developed economically as well as being largely homogenious which 'explains why they are 'happy' to look after their own kind.
if they went broke, and lost 20% of the employment, i would bet they would lose A LOT of incentives to back health 'needs' as does, the lack of organisation to counter this break down would be rather dramatic. The corporates are alike like 'their own country', smaller in population structure but bigger in economics sense' the thing is if they (1 company struggle) the employee not only lose their jobs, and salary/wages about also insurance, pensions, and access to health !!- to me this is very dangerous as all the eggs are in 1 basket.
 
What I would like to see happen is hybrid health insurance system, meaning having universal health care PLUS private insurance, if can afford as option, that way, there are plenty of elective medical needs can be though private insurance while critical health care is required is covered by government.
 
To quote P.J. O'Rourke, "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free."

Nothing is free. By divorcing the consumers from the cost, you're going to get a lot more trips to the doctor's office which will result in delays and shortages. Additionally, any sort of universal healthcare is going to be detrimental to innovation. We'll never see what great drugs, equipment, and procedures were never developed because companies had to slash research and development because the government forced down prices. Those are known as individual costs.

People have to understand the difference between prices and costs. Prices are what's on the price tag whereas costs are what goes into making the product. High prices are merely a symptom of some inefficiency or shortage that is driving up the costs. If the government forces down prices without doing anything to change the costs, we end up with shortages. Think about it this way- if the government forces you to sell something at $900 and it costs you $1000 to make it, are you really going to bother? Doubt it. If they force down doctor wages, who's going to want to go into medicine? That's why you get the ridiculous waits in countries with government-controlled healthcare. There are things that can be done to unravel some of the inefficiencies, but we also have to remember that a big part of the reason healthcare costs are rising is that the quality has gone up so much. We now have amazing equipment, state-of-the-art procedures, and life-saving drugs that we didn't have several decades ago and thus didn't pay for several decades ago. Progress is expensive, but I'm willing to pay for it. I'm not willing to pay for government-controlled medicine, where death and taxes become that much more certain.
 
Do you think the price of health care would go down if we do away with the insurances? There is a doctor in a certain rural area of Tennessee where his service is cheap. No insurance and he takes only cash.
 
Buffalo said:
Do you think the price of health care would go down if we do away with the insurances? There is a doctor in a certain rural area of Tennessee where his service is cheap. No insurance and he takes only cash.
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Getting rid of insurance would not be a good idea, but I think those walk-in clinics are great. I think a large part of the problem is that people are disconnected from the costs of health care. They come to see insurance as something that should make general health care cheaper. Really, insurance should be there just for catostrophic cases- cancer, car accidents, heart disease, etc., so they're not bankrupted in worst case scenarios.

I would favor changing the tax code so businesses have to pay taxes on health care and individuals won't. That way, people wouldn't get health insurance through their jobs, but their salaries would go up. With that increase in salary, they would be able to purchase health insurance themselves (tax free). People would be forced to shop around and if they were healthy, they may decide that a high deductible insurance is better (otherwise, they're paying thousands of dollars to save a few hundred at the doctor's office). That means they would have to pay for their own routine doctor visits until they met their deductible (like at that clinic you're talking about). That means people would be more likely to shop around for more affordable doctors and clinics instead of just picking one without any thought because the copay's only $25 (or whatever). That means doctors would have to compete by keeping prices low. It also means that people would probably go to the doctor less for stupid things, but they still have that option. Rationing needs to happen with any scarce resource. It's just better when people self-ration than when the government forces it. It's also far better when prices go down due to competition rather than government force.
 
Royale said:
Reality check: Canada's government health care system - CNN.com

What do u think? Please be civil and do not flame this thread.
Click to expand...



I know a lot about UK healthcare which is almost similar as Canadian Healthcare system. I was skeptical after read the CNN link because I never know in my life that Canadian and UK healthcare system for keep patients with life-threatening waiting for long months. I search Mayo Clinic websites. Here I found.

Accord to the Mayo Clinic, she has no brain tumor but Rathke's Cleft Cyst.

Shona Holmes

She told her story in Mayo Clinic websites which is different as she told ads and interviews to the public.

Ian Welsh: Americans Lives vs. Insurance Company Profits: The Real Battle in Health Care Reform

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Well, the truth come out and the fact is Shona Holmes never had a life-threatening brain tumor, as what she claimed in those ads and interviews on American TV. Why?





 
Liebling, you do not know what Canadian health care is like because you do not live here. I cannot claim to know what UK health care is like because I do not like in the UK.

Shana Holmes paid for her surgery out of her own pocket, whether she had a tumour or not, she was not well to begin with.

If I were to take a look at both .pdfs of the UK and Canadian health care system, I can see the big difference between those two. Canadian UK

I will share with you my experiences visiting so many hospitals, doctors and specialists since I've lost most of my vision. Many specialists are happy to refer me to other specialists and they just poke and prod in my eyes.

This is not a walk in the park, this makes me very ill to my stomach. They add solutions in my eyes to make them dilate and for the rest of the day, I'm pretty fk'ed up. I usually curl up in bed and wait out the solution & wait for the solution to dissolve so I can see with my one eye.

I've refused any more testings and specialist visits because I don't see where this is going as they all say the same thing, they all poke/prod right in my eyes to the point where I swear one day my eyeball's going to pop right out!

The point is Liebling, the doctors do too much waiting time with their patients and when they do finally see their patients, it is only just for a 10-15 minutes visit. To wait up to 6 months to see the doctor for a 15 minutes visit, a patient's health can rapidly diminish between the present time to the 6 months in the future.

The patient can be put on the waiting list for a cancellation visit but who wants to cancel their appointment with the specialist that they have to wait 6 months for? No one wants to and they're all on the same waiting list too as well!

Several people I know have gone to USA to have surgery done and their private insurance paid for it because they were heart attacks waiting to happen. One was a 34 year old teacher with several young children and a pregnant wife as well. He spent over 2 months at the hospital and when he came back home to Canada, he was a much healthier and a fattened-up person too as well!!

The trip to USA was worth it because he was grey-skinned and very haggard, looking much older than his 34 years old age. The waiting game cannot happen and it doesn't matter which country we all come from.
 
Mrs Bucket said:
Liebling, you do not know what Canadian health care is like because you do not live here. I cannot claim to know what UK health care is like because I do not like in the UK.
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Yes, you are right that I do not know what Canadian health care alike because I do not live in Canada but I collect from the people from internet and real life who experienced between UK and Canada. Most said that they are similiar.. Example is Waiting list and time. True, because there´re also waiting list and time in UK as well. They only do something right way when there´re life threatening.

Shana Holmes paid for her surgery out of her own pocket, whether she had a tumour or not, she was not well to begin with.
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Yes, that´s right. It´s her money but she should correct her word to the public like what she said in Mayo Clinic´s websites. Unfortunlately she choose to speak inaccurate to the public to compare her story in Mayo clinic´s websites.

If I were to take a look at both .pdfs of the UK and Canadian health care system, I can see the big difference between those two. Canadian UK
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Yes I know but it´s waiting time and list, I am referring to when there´re non-life threatening.

I will share with you my experiences visiting so many hospitals, doctors and specialists since I've lost most of my vision. Many specialists are happy to refer me to other specialists and they just poke and prod in my eyes.

This is not a walk in the park, this makes me very ill to my stomach. They add solutions in my eyes to make them dilate and for the rest of the day, I'm pretty fk'ed up. I usually curl up in bed and wait out the solution & wait for the solution to dissolve so I can see with my one eye.

I've refused any more testings and specialist visits because I don't see where this is going as they all say the same thing, they all poke/prod right in my eyes to the point where I swear one day my eyeball's going to pop right out!

The point is Liebling, the doctors do too much waiting time with their patients and when they do finally see their patients, it is only just for a 10-15 minutes visit. To wait up to 6 months to see the doctor for a 15 minutes visit, a patient's health can rapidly diminish between the present time to the 6 months in the future.

The patient can be put on the waiting list for a cancellation visit but who wants to cancel their appointment with the specialist that they have to wait 6 months for? No one wants to and they're all on the same waiting list too as well!
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First of all, I´m sorry what and how you had through and know how you feeling because I had been through the similiar as you as well.

It took me 2 and half years waiting to get my tonsil removal when I was 18 years old in UK. I got it when I was 16 years old and had it examined by doctor several times per year to make sure that it won´t be "life-threatening". I was mad when I saw many patients come first before me but they explained why life threatening is most important. Example of all is my step-mother and lung cancer. Her situation is need to be done instead of put her waiting list.

Several people I know have gone to USA to have surgery done and their private insurance paid for it because they were heart attacks waiting to happen. One was a 34 year old teacher with several young children and a pregnant wife as well. He spent over 2 months at the hospital and when he came back home to Canada, he was a much healthier and a fattened-up person too as well!!

The trip to USA was worth it because he was grey-skinned and very haggard, looking much older than his 34 years old age. The waiting game cannot happen and it doesn't matter which country we all come from.
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Yes, I am well aware that waiting list is not fun but I look back and must say that I am glad that my parents did not lost everything to pay the cost tonsil surgery for me.

The people are lucky that they can afford private health insurance to travel US to have it done but not all the people who can afford to buy private health coverage.

Many people keep on saying how lucky they are or glad they are to have healthcare because they did not lost their home to medicial care cost, etc when they look US healthcare system.
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I do not support Universal Healthcare. It's as bad as our overpriced private healthcare but better here than Canada
 
I'm sorry Liebling but you're comparing apples to oranges when you discuss elective surgery to permanent vision loss.

How was your experience similar to mine?
 
I do support regulation on health insurance and every Americans are deserves to access to health care, also social insurance is necessary.
 
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