Climate Change

Foxrac

Foxrac

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Do you believe that climate change is just natural or man made?

Discuss.
 
a natural phenomenon.
 
Define climate change. What does it mean to you?
 
naisho said:
Define climate change. What does it mean to you?
Click to expand...

unusual seasonal changing from the norm. it's only unusual to us because it's what we're used to it but to Earth - it's nothing unusual... it's same ole' for billions of years. It has gone thru all kinds - violent planet-wide volcanic activity, Ice Age, extreme hot weather, etc.

because of growing biodiversities and species population.... the whole supply-demand thing... Earth is simply correcting itself to balance the equation.

basically..... "same shit, different day"
 
Jiro said:
what? philosophies???

nope. incorrect.

Earth is not under threat. it never was. the only threat is asteroid coming our way or alien invasion :lol:

the only thing that is under threat is human. Earth does not care if sea level is rising or if it has gotten hotter. Earth does not care at all because it has been here for billions of years and humans has been here for what? a mere hundred thousands years?

remember what Darwin's all about? adaptation. whatever's happening in this world... we humans can either adapt or die. simple as that. if the sea level is increasing, then we'll just climb higher or build a sea city. if we can't adapt, then we die.

incorrect.

there is a direct correlation with human's impact on environment.... it's at micro-level.... meaning - during rush hour in LA, there will be a smog... at evening, the smog will clear out.

at macro-level.... there's no direct correlation with human's impact on world.. meaning - 7 billion people is far too tiny to even cause an impact like global warming on this huge planet. it's like saying an ant colony in playground is having a direct impact on entire state.

planting more trees will help your local area but it won't do much for entire planet unless we wipe out trees from an entire continent.
Click to expand...

The philosophies is about different belief on global warming: total denial to global warming (even not believe that smog is caused by rush hour) vs. natural view about global warming (like you) vs. global warming related to climate change

I found different philosophies about climate change is very annoying, especially far right and far left, so not about your belief.

I found your explanation is extremely interesting and seems very accurate in my mind, also you have expensive information. I strongly agree about smog caused by rush traffic and I noticed that west coast have smog problem because of China.

For my question - why ice in Antarctica is melting as sea level rises? Is it caused naturally?
 
Foxrac said:
The philosophies is about different belief on global warming: total denial to global warming (even not believe that smog is caused by rush hour) vs. natural view about global warming (like you) vs. global warming related to climate change

I found different philosophies about climate change is very annoying, especially far right and far left, so not about your belief.
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right. rather than listening to politicians, armchair experts, etc.... how about listening to science and real experts?

Foxrac said:
I found your explanation is extremely interesting and seems very accurate in my mind, also you have expensive information. I strongly agree about smog caused by rush traffic and I noticed that west coast have smog problem because of China.
Click to expand...
no. it's not mainly cuz of China.

if you look at Mexico City - they have same smog problem but worse than LA. NYC has similar high-density traffic issue as LA and yet we don't have a smog as bad as LA. why? lack of wind movement in LA and Mexico City. NYC has plenty of wind movement so our smog is not as bad as LA.

Foxrac said:
For my question - why ice in Antarctica is melting as sea level rises?
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nobody knows. same thing with Ice Age. nobody knows why it happened.

Foxrac said:
Is it caused naturally?
Click to expand...
yes. naturally. like Ice Age.
 
Foxrac said:
natural or man made?
Click to expand...

First, you need to have some chemistry and/or biology background to debate this correctly. If you are just arguing overall global weather changes, it is all politics.

If you look at it by identifying the chemicals, then you are doing it by science.

Naturally occurring compounds (can be from nature too)
CH4 (aka methane)
CO2
CO
N2
NH3 ammonia
NH4 ammonium


Human
CH4
CO2
CO
N2
NH3
NH4
CFC
H2SO4
H2SO3
* much more

There is a change in the amount of synthetic gases and chemicals, but do they change the world's weather/climate? Nobody knows or can prove it yet. It's all guessing and theory.

We know some synthetics are not good for the ozone:
Example - Chloroflurocarbonsm, freon bases. Methyl bromide. etc these are elements that do not likely happen by nature, and their density can measured in the atmosphere by ppm (parts per million).

CO2, Nitride and Nitrogen families can be natural, and also human induced so it's hard to prove it's caused by humans only.

Sulfuric acids and rains are definitely human induced. But do they change the global overall weather patterns? Not sure, don't think there's proof and not easy to test it.
 
naisho said:
First, you need to have some chemistry and/or biology background to debate this correctly. If you are just arguing overall global weather changes, it is all politics.

If you look at it by identifying the chemicals, then you are doing it by science.

Naturally occurring compounds (can be from nature too)
CH4 (aka methane)
CO2
CO
N2
NH3 ammonia
NH4 ammonium


Human
CH4
CO2
CO
N2
NH3
NH4
CFC
H2SO4
H2SO3
* much more

There is a change in the amount of synthetic gases and chemicals, but do they change the world's weather/climate? Nobody knows or can prove it yet. It's all guessing and theory.

We know some synthetics are not good for the ozone:
Example - Chloroflurocarbonsm, freon bases. Methyl bromine. etc these are elements that do not happen by nature, and their density can measured in the atmosphere by ppm (parts per million).

CO2, Nitride and Nitrogen families can be natural, and also human induced so it's hard to prove it's caused by humans only.

Sulfuric acids and rains are definitely human induced. But do they change the global overall weather patterns? Not sure, don't think there's proof and not easy to test it.
Click to expand...

That is why I always preach to be responsible now and cease the global guilt trip. Using less gas is a good thing. Picking up trash is a good thing. Reusing resources is a good thing. I never understood the political guilt trip based on flimsy evidence.
 
Jiro said:
right. rather than listening to politicians, armchair experts, etc.... how about listening to science and real experts?


no. it's not mainly cuz of China.

if you look at Mexico City - they have same smog problem but worse than LA. NYC has similar high-density traffic issue as LA and yet we don't have a smog as bad as LA. why? lack of wind movement in LA and Mexico City. NYC has plenty of wind movement so our smog is not as bad as LA.


nobody knows. same thing with Ice Age. nobody knows why it happened.


yes. naturally. like Ice Age.
Click to expand...

Now, I understand about what natural phenomenon. It is like littering and improper disposal of hazardous, toxic materials are threatening to water. I learned from my science teacher about back in 18th Century (1700's) and the water was very clean, that what many native Indians need water to survive.

I recognized about LA has problem with smog from rush hour and lack of wind movement (recently learned from you). I learned about concern from Seattle resident about unusual smog in Seattle, so he believe it was from Asia.
Local News | Asia is adding to smog in West, researchers say | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Foxrac said:
Now, I understand about what natural phenomenon. It is like littering and improper disposal of hazardous, toxic materials are threatening to water. I learned from my science teacher about back in 18th Century (1700's) and the water was very clean, that what many native Indians need water to survive.
Click to expand...
no. that's not a natural phenomenon.

littering and improper disposal are not a natural event. it's an unfortunate event caused by men.

Foxrac said:
I recognized about LA has problem with smog from rush hour and lack of wind movement (recently learned from you). I learned about concern from Seattle resident about unusual smog in Seattle, so he believe it was from Asia.
Local News | Asia is adding to smog in West, researchers say | Seattle Times Newspaper
Click to expand...
si.
 
Jiro said:
no. that's not a natural phenomenon.

littering and improper disposal are not a natural event. it's an unfortunate event caused by men.

si.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, I made wrong with first paragraph, so you corrected me. It isn't hurting entire of earth but limited to location? :hmm:
 
naisho said:
First, you need to have some chemistry and/or biology background to debate this correctly. If you are just arguing overall global weather changes, it is all politics.

If you look at it by identifying the chemicals, then you are doing it by science.

Naturally occurring compounds (can be from nature too)
CH4 (aka methane)
CO2
CO
N2
NH3 ammonia
NH4 ammonium


Human
CH4
CO2
CO
N2
NH3
NH4
CFC
H2SO4
H2SO3
* much more

There is a change in the amount of synthetic gases and chemicals, but do they change the world's weather/climate? Nobody knows or can prove it yet. It's all guessing and theory.

We know some synthetics are not good for the ozone:
Example - Chloroflurocarbonsm, freon bases. Methyl bromide. etc these are elements that do not likely happen by nature, and their density can measured in the atmosphere by ppm (parts per million).

CO2, Nitride and Nitrogen families can be natural, and also human induced so it's hard to prove it's caused by humans only.

Sulfuric acids and rains are definitely human induced. But do they change the global overall weather patterns? Not sure, don't think there's proof and not easy to test it.
Click to expand...

I took physical science, biology, anatomy and ecology.

I want to take chemistry at high school but my school counselor refused to allow because it is hard for me due to my deafness. :ugh:

Yup, you are correct about not much proof and it is very hard to reveal with test.
 
That's why I asked you what you define by climate change.

Global weather change?
Not sure, it's not easy to test this. There's no answer for it from science yet.

Change in climate by region? Already happens. Smog in metro cities traps gases with sunlight and create more heat and dust for that region. Acid rain happens because of humans and illegal activity. O3 is a dangerous version of O2 and causes problems to humans and plants by UV radiation.
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/ozone-o3/index.htm
 
Foxrac said:
I took physical science, biology, anatomy and ecology.

I want to take chemistry at high school but my school counselor refused to allow because it is hard for me due to my deafness. :ugh:

Yup, you are correct about not much proof and it is very hard to reveal with test.
Click to expand...

forget about what you learned from high school courses. it's full of misconceptions and superficial understanding.

that's why people go to college... for advanced understanding of these mysterious things.
 
Jiro said:
forget about what you learned from high school courses. it's full of misconceptions and superficial understanding.

that's why people go to college... for advanced understanding of these mysterious things.
Click to expand...

I only took Biology 101 at college level - so honest with you, I don't see any difference between HS and college, except for difficulty and college include lab.

Biology 101 was my major requirement, so I could take Chemistry as elective at UAB but many students said it was HARD AS HELL. I just hold them by focus on business courses that I have complete to meet the requirement.
 
Foxrac said:
I only took Biology 101 at college level - so honest with you, I don't see any difference between HS and college, except for difficulty and college include lab.

Biology 101 was my major requirement, so I could take Chemistry as elective at UAB but many students said it was HARD AS HELL. I just hold them by focus on business courses that I have complete to meet the requirement.
Click to expand...
101 is nothing. it's like a HS level. more of a recap + some more details.

wait till you get to level 2 and so on.
 
Jiro said:
101 is nothing. it's like a HS level. more of a recap + some more details.

wait till you get to level 2 and so on.
Click to expand...

I could take it, whenever I have resource, however my resource with education is limited, so I have very strict to meet the major requirement to complete the degree for future employment.

FAFSA is getting stricter now, so the congress imposed the limit for Pell Grant to 6 years and the financial aid set the limit to 180 credits for all attempted courses.
 
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