Update on my daughter's education

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Deborah

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Hi everyone! Just checking in and updating about our situation. My daughter is 13--oral deaf/hard of hearing--mainstreamed for a while but now wants to be with other deaf/hh students. We are trying to move to Florida so that she can attend the deaf school there--the move is not going so well, though. Our number one delay is trying to sell our house here--once we do, we will move to Florida.

My daughter is currently in 7th grade--she used to attend her "home school" but now is in the local deaf/hh program at a different middle school. Although she is not the ONLY deaf/hh student now (she was from K to 6th grade), there are only 3 other deaf/hh students at this middle school. There is one other girl and two boys. As much as I had hoped that she would bond with the girl in her class, it just isn't happening. They are BOTH oral, so communication isn't the issue. They both have hearing friends and run in "different circles." My daughter STILL is unhappy about not really having good friends who are deaf/hh. I guess there just aren't very many deaf/hh students in our school district--especially not teenagers.

Academically, things are going fine--my daughter likes her teachers and is making good grades. One of the boys uses ASL, so everything is signed in class. Even though she is constantly exposed to ASL, she really isn't picking it up very well. She says that she spends most of her time concentrating on what is being said in class that she kind of finds the signs a distraction to her, not a help. She WANTS to learn, but there isn't really a time to do so in their busy middle school schedule. I was just hoping that she would pick it up from being exposed to it daily, but it isn't always easy to do that.

As the end of the year approaches, we are now thinking about next year--her 8th grade year. If we STILL haven't moved yet, then she will continue at her current middle school. It isn't a BAD placement--it does seem to be better than where she was for 6th grade--but it really isn't the BEST placement for her. As I look around our area, there isn't really anything better, either. ALl we can think about is--hopefully she can get through 8th grade ok, and then we will FIND a way to get her to a deaf school for high school. SURELY we will be moved by then!

Of course, if we DO move before or during her 8th grade year, we still have some options in Florida. We aren't anxious to let her board, but it would be easier to let her do so once she is in high school. SO--we may try the deaf/hh program in the local school in central Florida for her 8th grade year. We have visited there and were fairly happy with it--there are about 15 deaf/hh students there (better than 4!). My daughter met some of the girls there and it SEEMS that they could build friendships--but who knows? I would love for her to make LOTS of deaf/hh friends her age--but sometimes it is hard to find them! Ideally, she could make friends at the deaf/hh program in 8th grade, and maybe they could go to FSDB together for high school! That would be great!

Anyway--this is our update for now. As soon as we sell our house (PLEASE someone buy our house!), we will move to Florida and hopefully pursue a good educational placement for my daughter. She constantly says that she will be happy when she finally gets to a deaf high school! :) To her, that is the ideal placement--she does NOT want to go to a "regular high school." I was very pleased with FSDB and I think it would be a very good placement for her high school years. Wish us luck!
 
Deborah said:
Hi everyone! Just checking in and updating about our situation. My daughter is 13--oral deaf/hard of hearing--mainstreamed for a while but now wants to be with other deaf/hh students. We are trying to move to Florida so that she can attend the deaf school there--the move is not going so well, though. Our number one delay is trying to sell our house here--once we do, we will move to Florida.

My daughter is currently in 7th grade--she used to attend her "home school" but now is in the local deaf/hh program at a different middle school. Although she is not the ONLY deaf/hh student now (she was from K to 6th grade), there are only 3 other deaf/hh students at this middle school. There is one other girl and two boys. As much as I had hoped that she would bond with the girl in her class, it just isn't happening. They are BOTH oral, so communication isn't the issue. They both have hearing friends and run in "different circles." My daughter STILL is unhappy about not really having good friends who are deaf/hh. I guess there just aren't very many deaf/hh students in our school district--especially not teenagers.

Academically, things are going fine--my daughter likes her teachers and is making good grades. One of the boys uses ASL, so everything is signed in class. Even though she is constantly exposed to ASL, she really isn't picking it up very well. She says that she spends most of her time concentrating on what is being said in class that she kind of finds the signs a distraction to her, not a help. She WANTS to learn, but there isn't really a time to do so in their busy middle school schedule. I was just hoping that she would pick it up from being exposed to it daily, but it isn't always easy to do that.

As the end of the year approaches, we are now thinking about next year--her 8th grade year. If we STILL haven't moved yet, then she will continue at her current middle school. It isn't a BAD placement--it does seem to be better than where she was for 6th grade--but it really isn't the BEST placement for her. As I look around our area, there isn't really anything better, either. ALl we can think about is--hopefully she can get through 8th grade ok, and then we will FIND a way to get her to a deaf school for high school. SURELY we will be moved by then!

Of course, if we DO move before or during her 8th grade year, we still have some options in Florida. We aren't anxious to let her board, but it would be easier to let her do so once she is in high school. SO--we may try the deaf/hh program in the local school in central Florida for her 8th grade year. We have visited there and were fairly happy with it--there are about 15 deaf/hh students there (better than 4!). My daughter met some of the girls there and it SEEMS that they could build friendships--but who knows? I would love for her to make LOTS of deaf/hh friends her age--but sometimes it is hard to find them! Ideally, she could make friends at the deaf/hh program in 8th grade, and maybe they could go to FSDB together for high school! That would be great!

Anyway--this is our update for now. As soon as we sell our house (PLEASE someone buy our house!), we will move to Florida and hopefully pursue a good educational placement for my daughter. She constantly says that she will be happy when she finally gets to a deaf high school! :) To her, that is the ideal placement--she does NOT want to go to a "regular high school." I was very pleased with FSDB and I think it would be a very good placement for her high school years. Wish us luck!
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I want to totally commend you for being so dedicated to your daughter's happiness that you are willing to face the mortgage mess to relocate for her... I have heard from many people that they wished they could have attended a Deaf/hh school because they just didn't feel at home in public school, as you mentioned,, only a few deaf students per school keeps them a minority and feeling different.. Of course ther are some who had good expereinces in mainstream school, although I have heard more horror stories than good stories... THe point being is that all children differ, just as all adults do.. I bet no one adult would allow someone to force them into a college setting that they didn't like,, because adults get to make choices,,
There is no one-size-fits-all answer for these things, but a child't emotional well being is, in my opinion, more important than any other issue. IF the child stuggles socially, then their mind may not be reaching its creative potential. Academically, people seem to learn and RETAIN what they learn according to their interests. I will never be a rocket scientist, but I do well with other things. I forgotten most of the math that I learned because it is irrelevant to me. Oh the other hand, those who do well with math may not do well in writing or other creative and random subjects. But I think the most important thing is to keep a child in an environment where their self esteem can be nurtured and they can learn to develop healthy relationships etc. The academic thing will come accordingly. I am now discovereing that I am interested in English, and I hated it in school. Now it is relevant to me,, then it wasn't.. As I have grown to define myself, my adacemic interests have grown... So,, I commend you for seeing that your childs comfort and happiness is worth wading into the uncertainties of relocating to a whole new STATE! You will be facing many transitions in your own personl life, which to me is the ultimate sacrifice to your child. :) You have my deepest admiration.
 
Hey Deborah.....that does kinda stink that you're still not in Florida. Maybe a good idea might be to send your daughter to your state's Deaf School Camp....or even one of the Gally University summer programs! She could pick up ASL just like that. MUCH EASIER then having to learn it in school.
Check into local dhh resources. Maybe a regional Deaf club might have a teen networking program.
Oh, and as for the mainstream vs. deaf school placement........Go with the Deaf school placement. Yes, she'd have to board there....but she could come home every weekend. It could also help her with independant living and being on her own. Going away to Deaf School isn't like it used to be in the old days....that is, kids aren't put there and totally seperated from their families. Families are ENCOURAGED to be a part of their child's education.
 
Deborah, I was reading your previous posts. You've never said explictly where you are, but it does sound like (from one of your posts) that you're in the Atlanta area. Have you contacted the Atlanta Area School for the Deaf?
http://www.aasd.us/
There's also Georgia School for the Deaf's summer program: Camp Talalah
Damn................can't seem to find anything on a summer camp for FSDB....
 
Wow! I'm thrilled that you are doing what you think is best for your child, especially since you feel that she is not getting what she needs from school.

As a parent, you have the right to convene an IEP meeting at any time to state your concerns that she is not getting her needs met, and that the current placement is not appropriate for her. For a deaf child, sometimes the public school environment is not considered the "Least Restrictive Environment" (LRE) because of social and communication reasons. One suggestion is that the school can arrange for your daughter to take sign language classes (either having a sign language teacher come to her school or arrange for her to take ASL at a local college, etc.) in order for her to pick up signing so she can benefit.
 
Also, be aware that FSDB will be an all signing environment (if I remember correctly) so your daughter might be a little overwhelmed with it...and at times might get frustrated if she doesn't understand everything. That's another reason it would be a good idea for her to take some signing classes or have someone to work with her signing skills so she will have that base.
 
Well I was thinking that sending her to a summer camp would be good as she could just pick up Sign instead of being taught it.
 
Hi! Yes, I am thinking about sending her to camp this summer--most likely to one in Florida. I know about one that many FSDB students attend--looking into that. As to FSDB and the signing environment--this is what we discovered on our visit. Yes, they DO encourage it and teach it, but they don't seem to be "pushy" about it. What I mean is this: when we visited, almost everyone SPOKE to my daughter and she SPOKE to almost everyone that she met--that included students, teachers, and staff. She met some students her age--most of them were oral and LEARNING to sign. THAT is where she is right now--she will always be "oral deaf" because she hears well with hearing aids and speaks well--she cannot imagine living in a "silent" world where ONLY sign is used. She would be very uncomfortable in a situation where no one talked to her. She is who she is--she wants to learn ASL for social reasons, but she would never want to "give up her voice." Now, having said that, I know that she would not "fit in" in many situations--she would be very much an outsider at a camp or school where everyone was strictly "voice off." In some ways, she is in the group of people who are "in between"--not really fitting in well with either hearing or Deaf groups. However, she has met a few people who are more like her--severe hearing loss (more than mild/moderate but not profound), gets GREAT benefit from hearing aids, LOVES to listen to music, and are very, very talkative. My point is this--she wants to be part of a deaf/hh group, but she won't fit in with ALL deaf/hh groups. If I send her to a camp or school where most of the people ONLY communicate in ASL and don't talk (or choose to be "voice off"), she would be like a fish out of water. That is why she has narrowed her choice down to FSDB--when we visited, she enjoyed TALKING to some of the students her age--they told her about the volleyball team and basketball team--they told her that they were ALSO just now learning ASL--they were her TRUE peer group, know what I mean? She says that she could communicate with anyone who can't speak by writing notes back and forth--that is HER way of compromising. She also WANTS to learn sign--kind of a way to "fit in" because she thinks it is a cool thing. My greatest fear would be to put her in a situation where she is SHUNNED because she prefers to speak--from what we saw at FSDB, this is not the case. Maybe it used to be, I don't know--now it seems to have a very "Total Communication" kind of approach--at least from what we saw when we visited the middle and high school. Look, for those who choose otherwise, more power to you. But MANY deaf/hh people are like my daughter--they LOVE to hear (with hearing aids) and speak--they would never want to give that up. BUT--they also want to be part of a group--they don't quite fit in well in "regular schools" because they feel "different." My daughter is now wanting to claim her "deaf identity"--but that can mean different things to different people. To her, and many like her, it means--being part of a group who feel comfortable with each other--they consider themselves "deaf" (little d)--they wear their hearing aids (and some have cochlear implants) and enjoy hearing what they can hear--they TALK to each other--maybe sometimes they sign or write notes, but TALKING is what comes natural to them--this is the kind of "deaf community" she is seeking. And it seems harder to find THAT kind of "deaf community"--maybe because they are all spread out and blending into the hearing world. If my daughter becomes proficient in ASL, she may feel comfortable attending some "silent events"--but I bet she will sneak in some talking to those who do! :) Anyway--this is what my daughter is searching for--honestly, it has been very hard to find! If I send her to a place where she is ostracized because she speaks and is teased because her ASL skills aren't very developed--this would devastate her! SO--whether looking for camp or schools, I have to see what kind of environment it would be--would I be putting her somewhere that she would thrive, or would I be putting her in yet another place to be singled out and isolated? From what we saw in our visit, FSDB seems to be a place that she would thrive--she felt VERY comfortable there and they said as long as she is willing to learn ASL, she should fit in just fine. I am not sure that she would receive such open arms at other schools and camps. All I want is to put her in the BEST place for HER--I HOPE that we are making the right choice! :)
 
Deborah,
Very luckily, total and complete ASL seperatism is overall pretty rare. Even many people who Sign only, are open to those who are orally skilled. I have some friends who Sign only, and who are perfectly OK with those of us who are just hoh.
There are also MANY orally skilled folks who straddle the fence. Just here alone, there are tons and tons of Deafies who love music, and who love being a part of the hearing world. Believe me, the Sign only community is VERY small. I think I read that less then 5% of Deafies are Sign only. Your daughter will be very welcome at many Deaf events and schools and things. I know you might be a bit hesistant about your daughter's interactions with the ASL community. There ARE some extremists......but overall, the community can be very welcoming. As long as an orally skilled kid wants to learn ASL and doesn't look down on ASL users, (ie thinking that they are better educated ) they will generally be accepted.
Heck, did you know that there are people who use Sign as a primary language who don't even have a hearing loss? There are plenty of kids with apraxia(non mentally retarded) who use Sign as a primary language. At least two schools for the Deaf, have programs for kids with apraxia.
And, actually your daughter's experiance , until recently was very common. A lot of oral sucesses in the past, didn't learn Sign until they were a bit older.
 
deafdyke said:
Deborah,
Very luckily, total and complete ASL seperatism is overall pretty rare. Even many people who Sign only, are open to those who are orally skilled. I have some friends who Sign only, and who are perfectly OK with those of us who are just hoh.
There are also MANY orally skilled folks who straddle the fence. Just here alone, there are tons and tons of Deafies who love music, and who love being a part of the hearing world. Believe me, the Sign only community is VERY small. I think I read that less then 5% of Deafies are Sign only. Your daughter will be very welcome at many Deaf events and schools and things. I know you might be a bit hesistant about your daughter's interactions with the ASL community. There ARE some extremists......but overall, the community can be very welcoming. As long as an orally skilled kid wants to learn ASL and doesn't look down on ASL users, (ie thinking that they are better educated ) they will generally be accepted.
Heck, did you know that there are people who use Sign as a primary language who don't even have a hearing loss? There are plenty of kids with apraxia(non mentally retarded) who use Sign as a primary language. At least two schools for the Deaf, have programs for kids with apraxia.
And, actually your daughter's experiance , until recently was very common. A lot of oral sucesses in the past, didn't learn Sign until they were a bit older.
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Thanks for you input! :) As I said before, we haven't had a lot of exposure to the Deaf community--a lot of what we learn about it comes from the media. And, I will admit that some of it was presented to us with a distinctly oral bias through things like AG Bell. However, there is a lot of media coverage NOT coming from them--and it makes me scared for my daughter--I just want her to feel loved and accepted, not judged and looked down on. Some examples: The documentary "Sound and Fury"--it was interesting to see the viewpoints of the Deaf community, but it made me think that my daughter would not "fit in"--at least from what was shown in the film. And many things on tv and in film seem to skew that way, too--the most recent was "Sweet Nothings in my Ear"--yes, it was good to see Deaf pride, but it did kind of make me think that there is still a lot of prejudice toward "oral deaf" within at least a part of the Deaf community. OK--real life: Heather Whitestone--tried out for Miss Deaf America in Alabama--completely shunned because she preferred to speak (but yes, that was years ago)--still, even now, I know people who have contact with that same school--they are very proud of being "Silent Warriors"--not so sure my daughter would fit in there. And yes, we are in Georgia--visited the deaf school there--completely silent--my daughter would not fit in there, either. And on this message board, there have been discussions where people were looking for "true Deaf schools where most people are voice off"--if they are happy there than that is wonderful for them, but my daughter would not fit in at a school like that at all. From my experience of visiting some deaf schools in the past, I didn't know what to expect when visiting FSDB--would it be a "silent school" where only ASL is used? I was pleased to see BOTH speech and sign being used all over campus. Some of the teachers were oral deaf--GREAT role models for my daughter--they also signed as they spoke--great way for my daughter to learn ASL. My point is--there DO seem to be some schools and camps--and some groups and events--where no one speaks. That is great for those who are comfortable in a silent environment--but for many deaf people, this would be uncomfortable if NO ONE talked to them. I guess I am focusing on those awkward adolescent years--my daughter feels shunned if she is in the midst of hearing people and no one talks to her, and she would feel just as shunned in a situation where Deaf teenagers didn't talk to her, either. One thing I have noticed--maybe it is because of improved technology over the years, but many young deaf people with powerful hearing aids do seem to be oral--and, of course, there are kids with cochlear implants who are oral, too. So, even though my daughter hasn't met a LOT of deaf teenagers, when she does, often they are also oral. And many of them are learning ASL as a second language, but still use spoken English as their primary language. There does seem to be more moderation and less prejudice among my daughter's generation--this can be said about many things such as race, gender, etc. Hopefully, the old prejudices of past generations are fading away, and the up and coming generation is much more tolerant of differences. I see this in politics, religion, and yes--among the Deaf community, too. I hope that there are more and more places where the younger generation can go and see deaf people talking AND signing--being divisive is not good, and I hope that future generations continue to all come together and respect each other, not shun each other for being different. Anyway--this applies to so many aspects of life--I am SO glad to see MANY things changing in America--yes, there is still work to do, but I think more and more people are coming together with mutual respect for each other instead of judging others who think and act differently than they do. Viva la difference! :)
 
Don't depend so much on media portrayals for your ideas of Deaf Culture. Venture in and get some first hand experience. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
 
Oh--wanted to comment about one more thing. The overall course of my daughter's education has looked like this: diagnosed with severe hearing loss (but not profoundly deaf) at 1 year old--fitted with hearing aids, began early intervention services, and just had lots of fun talking to my daughter about life--yes, even used some basic signs as she was obtaining language, but as she matured and began talking, she dropped the signs. When she was 3, she was talking fairly well but was delayed according to language tests such as Peabody. I wanted to help her prepare for school--I enrolled her in the preschool program at an oral deaf school. It was a WONDERFUL experience for her--I WISH my hearing son had been able to attend such a wonderful preschool! Her language blossomed, and she became one talkative little girl! Her days consisted of fun, fun, fun--and she picked up a lot of language along the way.

As she entered school, we felt that she was on target with her language and she began mainstreaming in kindergarten. She had a great year in Kindergarten and she learned everything that is expected of Kindergarteners these days. She also had a great year mainstreaming in 1st grade--she was reading on grade level and doing basic math on level. Then she entered 2nd grade, and things began to change--sometimes I wonder if the teacher was the problem(not the best one she's ever had!). She began falling behind--later, testing suggested that she had a slight learning disability. So, beginning in 3rd grade, she had lots of resource to try to help her keep up with the curriculum. She did ok, but she began losing confidence in herself--she was far from being a top student, and she often was embarrassed if put on the spot to answer a question and answered incorrectly. Her self-esteem was suffering, and I was desperate to help mend the situation. By the time she reached 5th grade, she suddenly began focusing on the fact that she was the only deaf student at her school. She said that she was embarrassed about her hearing aids--she said she was teased about them and called names--she began to really feel "different" right about the time she hit puberty. The transition from child to adolescent is tough on everyone, but when something makes you feel "different,"--and it can be many things--it makes the transition practically unbearable. It was around this time that she began exploring the idea of going to school with other deaf kids like her--she didn't want to be the only one anymore. We began the process of looking and exploring options--sometimes it takes a while to make big changes.

As she entered 6th grade, her brother was in middle school and she decided to give his middle school a try--she was just excited about moving from elementary school to middle school. But she began saying that she DEFINITELY wanted to go to a deaf high school. Well, being the only deaf student in middle school was worse than being the only deaf student in elementary school--she said that she had no friends, and sometimes she was teased--but even worse than teasing is isolation. She was never invited to parties and other events that the other girls were attending. We began visiting places and trying to make decisions about her future. My husband received info about transferring his job to Florida, so we explored the area. We really liked FSDB, and we also liked the deaf/hh program at the local middle school there. We made plans to move--we had intended for her to go to the deaf/hh program at the middle school and then go to FSDB for high school. We considered sending her even sooner, but she decided to give the deaf/hh program a try first.

As her 7th grade year approached, our move was on hold and we had to make a decision. She decided to try the deaf/hh program in the middle school here in her current school district. We knew there were only a few students, but it was worth a try--anything was better than continuing in a bad situation. Besides, we THOUGHT we would be moving "any day now" and this was just a time to try it out and see how it goes, but we would move soon anyway type of situation--so we thought. It has been an interesting year--between job issues and selling the house issues, the move has been an "on again, off again" situation--it is driving us crazy! In the meantime, my daughter has almost completed her 7th grade year in the local deaf/hh program with 3 other deaf/hh students. She is somewhat happy, but not really--likes her teachers and doing well academically, but not having much luck socially. Not as much teasing this year, but still a lot of isolation. She seems to have lots of aquaintances, but no true friends--you know, no BFF(best friend forever). I think girls this age really need a BFF--I think she would LOVE to have a friend who is very much like her (oral deaf). The one and only girl who fits that description at her school is not her BFF. I hope that if there are SEVERAL girls like her, she will find at least one BFF! So that is her educational plan so far.

She has one more year of middle school--she will probably spend that year in a deaf/hh program in a public school, either here or in Florida. I would RATHER it would be in Florida--and so would she! We HOPE to get this move underway soon--the economy and other factors have made it a difficult transition. I want her to be happy--I would love for everything to begin her 8th grade year, but I definitely want to have everything in place as she starts high school.

Here is the issue I am wondering about--why is it that "oral schools" only go through 8th grade and then make sure these kids are mainstreamed by high school? I guess my daughter is doing the complete opposite--she mainstreamed up until high school (or almost), and now she desperately wants to go to a deaf high school. THAT is when fitting in with peers and going to school with people you have things in common with really counts! Young kids are pretty accepting of differences--my daughter really wasn't teased until she was older. But adolescence is a time when "fitting in" is of the UTMOST importance! I just don't understand the concept of staying at an oral school until 8th grade and then mainstreaming for high school--it just seems the opposite of what is needed. Anyway, if I ever speak with anyone from the oral schools, they are going to think that we did things backwards. What I want them to understand is this: the reason my daughter wants to go to a deaf high school is all about socialization--SHE feels most comfortable around other people like her. I know, a lot of teens like her go to regular schools, fit in just fine, play sports and join clubs, etc.--they seem to have no problem "fitting in"--so they claim. But my daughter, even though she is very "orally successful" (according to the oral school standards), does not feel comfortable in those situations. She is great at volleyball and basketball, but she refuses to participate in those sports at the regular school--she is waiting to get to the deaf school.

I don't know--I know I am rambling, I just am trying to get this all worked out in my head--and on the screen, too! Part of me wants to bring these issues to those who just don't get it--I swear, I have heard some oral deaf people say things like, "Why do I need deaf friends?" Yes, I do see a HUGE denial factor among some of the oral deaf community--they hear and speak, they don't know other deaf people, so they don't feel deaf. Well, being a hearing mother, I am trying very hard to understand what my daughter is going through--she hears and speaks, she considers herself deaf, and she wants to belong to a group of people like her. That isn't so hard to understand--heck, I am a pro-life feminist--it is hard to find many women like me either! In today's political climate, I agree and disagree with many things from both parties--I don't think I'd feel totally comfortable with people who are extremely right or left--I am definitely a moderate but have strong views on certain things that cross party lines. Anyway--here I am, a middle-aged woman, and I can relate to my teenage daughter's need to "fit in" and find her "group." It IS hard when you don't feel that you fit in anywhere!
 
Rambling is good. It helps us to work through things.

I will agree with you that socialization is an extremely important part of the educational process. A child who is isolated and feeling alone cannot concetrate on the curriculum. Nor can they proceed through the psychosocial stages of development.

You stated that the people from the oral school would tell you that you did things backwards. It doesn't matter what the people from the oral schools tell you. What matters is listening to your child, attending to all of her needs...educational, social, and psychological...and doing what you will know in your heart is right for your child.
 
Ok, I don't want to come off rude, but I want you to know that things could change for your daughter.
EVERY SINGLE Deaf adult I have met (with 2 exceptions and they both had Deaf parents) have grown up oral. They all discovered ASL as teens either through a change in school or by meeting another Deaf person or just seeing it and deciding they want to learn, and once they learn it, they never stop using it. I think you should be prepared that your daughter may choose to turn off her voice at some point. My best Deaf friend grew up completly oral, she went to CID, was a "star" student, she has zero difficulty understanding and using spoken Engglish, she even says she looked down on "ASL" Deaf people. She went to college and "found" ASL. She is now 100% voice-off and married to a Deaf of Deaf of Deaf of Deaf man and has 2 Deaf children of her own. It is not because she can't speak, but because now she chooses not to. She is also an advocate AGAINST oral education of Deaf children now.
I'm not saying this will be the case for your daughter, but you need to realize it is a possibility and you should be willing to accept and support her if that happens. AGAIN, I am not saying this is the life story of every Deaf person, but in my experience it happens often.

Also I wanted to say that the reason oral schools generally end is because the goal IS to mainstream. Our oral class at the School for the Deaf ends after 1st grade and Auditory-Verbal therapists recommend sending deaf-hoh students to a regular pre-school. The idea behin the methodology is that the deaf-hoh student will be able to function exactly like a hearing child because their speech/listening skills will be highly trained. They are supposed to "disappear" into mainstream society.....it doesn't usually work that way.
 
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faire_jour said:
Ok, I don't want to come off rude, but I want you to know that things could change for your daughter.
EVERY SINGLE Deaf adult I have met (with 2 exceptions and they both had Deaf parents) have grown up oral. They all discovered ASL as teens either through a change in school or by meeting another Deaf person or just seeing it and deciding they want to learn, and once they learn it, they never stop using it. I think you should be prepared that your daughter may choose to turn off her voice at some point. My best Deaf friend grew up completly oral, she went to CID, was a "star" student, she has zero difficulty understanding and using spoken Engglish, she even says she looked down on "ASL" Deaf people. She went to college and "found" ASL. She is now 100% voice-off and married to a Deaf of Deaf of Deaf of Deaf man and has 2 Deaf children of her own. It is not because she can't speak, but because now she chooses not to. She is also an advocate AGAINST oral education of Deaf children now.
I'm not saying this will be the case for your daughter, but you need to realize it is a possibility and you should be willing to accept and support her if that happens. AGAIN, I am not saying this is the life story of every Deaf person, but in my experience it happens often.

Also I wanted to say that the reason oral schools generally end is because the goal IS to mainstream. Our oral class at the School for the Deaf ends after 1st grade and Auditory-Verbal therapists recommend sending deaf-hoh students to a regular pre-school. The idea behin the methodology is that the deaf-hoh student will be able to function exactly like a hearing child because their speech/listening skills will be highly trained. They are supposed to "disappear" into mainstream society.....it doesn't usually work that way.[/QUOTE]

I'd go so far as to say that it rarely works that way.
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Question about "voice off" choice

faire_jour said:
Ok, I don't want to come off rude, but I want you to know that things could change for your daughter.
EVERY SINGLE Deaf adult I have met (with 2 exceptions and they both had Deaf parents) have grown up oral. They all discovered ASL as teens either through a change in school or by meeting another Deaf person or just seeing it and deciding they want to learn, and once they learn it, they never stop using it. I think you should be prepared that your daughter may choose to turn off her voice at some point. My best Deaf friend grew up completly oral, she went to CID, was a "star" student, she has zero difficulty understanding and using spoken Engglish, she even says she looked down on "ASL" Deaf people. She went to college and "found" ASL. She is now 100% voice-off and married to a Deaf of Deaf of Deaf of Deaf man and has 2 Deaf children of her own. It is not because she can't speak, but because now she chooses not to. She is also an advocate AGAINST oral education of Deaf children now.
I'm not saying this will be the case for your daughter, but you need to realize it is a possibility and you should be willing to accept and support her if that happens. AGAIN, I am not saying this is the life story of every Deaf person, but in my experience it happens often.

Also I wanted to say that the reason oral schools generally end is because the goal IS to mainstream. Our oral class at the School for the Deaf ends after 1st grade and Auditory-Verbal therapists recommend sending deaf-hoh students to a regular pre-school. The idea behin the methodology is that the deaf-hoh student will be able to function exactly like a hearing child because their speech/listening skills will be highly trained. They are supposed to "disappear" into mainstream society.....it doesn't usually work that way.
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OK--I have met one or two people who were raised oral and, as an adult, decided to be "voice off". I can understand why in some circumstances, but not in others. I also wonder about turning off hearing, in a way, by not wearing hearing aids. My daughter hears a lot of things without her hearing aids--in fact, she often takes them out and puts on headphones to listen to music. So, if she takes off her hearing aids or turns them off, she can still hear quite a bit--is she suppose to ignore what she does hear? I just don't get that--she would have to somehow plug her ears to not hear anything. And as far as speaking, if it comes so naturally to a person--if that is the way they communicate all of their life--if they LOVE to talk--I mean LOVE to talk(you know, lots of hearing people are quiet and don't talk much, and some are extremely talkative and just can't be quiet--some oral deaf people are like that, too--some people would be devastated if they couldn't talk because they are so talkative)--it is, honestly, as strange an idea to "turn their voice off" for THOSE people as it would be for a hearing person to take a vow of silence. Yes, IF my daughter made that decision, I would love her very much and that would NEVER change--I would communicate with her in whatever way she chose. BUT--we have such WONDERFUL communication with each other--we talk about everything and have a very close bond--it would be as unusual for her to stop speaking English and only sign as it would be for her to give up English for Spanish or any other language. As for things like marriage and family--her deafness seems to be caused by Rh-incompatibility during pregnancy. There is little chance that she will have deaf children unless some other cause occurs--could happen and would be fine, but the odds are that she will have hearing kids. Dating and marriage--who knows--maybe she would fall in love with someone who didn't talk--then I could see how she would want to communicate with him in a different way. I don't know--I just honestly cannot imagine her "turning off her voice"--it seems as unnatural for her to do that as it would for a hearing person to do it. Anyway--yes, it could happen--and my hearing son could decide to take a vow of silence--but the likelihood of either thing happening is very remote. How can someone who CAN hear and CAN speak and DOES live in a world where they talk to everyone around them--how can they give it up? If someone has a stroke and loses the ability to talk--I get it. If someone who can hear with hearing aids loses more hearing and becomes profound--I get it. I just don't get it when it is such a natural part of a person--hearing and speaking--why give it up? If it DOESN'T come natural--if it IS hard to do--if it FEELS unnatural--then I get it. But if it is the way you are--the way you function in life--how can you ignore something that is part of you?
 
I love my daughter more than life itself! :)

Just wanted to add that--no matter what educational path she ends up on--no matter what she ends up doing in her adult life--no matter who she dates and marries--no matter if she speaks and signs, speaks only, or signs only--no matter what--I will love her til the end of time and will do ANYTHING for her! Just wanted to clarify--whatever SHE chooses in life, she will always be my 'sweet baby girl"--I will do whatever is needed to adjust to whatever lifestyle she chooses for herself. I love being her mother--it has been such a privilege to see her grow and develop into such a lovely young woman. I love her EXACTLY as she is and would never want to change her in any way! :)
 
Hi Deborah..I have to agree with Jillo and faire_jour. I am a 36 year old deaf woman who grew up strictly oral and fully mainstreamed all the way to until I was 25 years old. I took ASL class not because I was curious about the Deaf community nor because I wanted to fit in with the Deaf community. I took it to meet the foreign language requirement. To my shock and amazement, I learned about the Deaf community and the culture behind it. I always knew about sign language but I always thought it was for lower functioning deaf people who couldnt develop oral skills.

Anyways, to make a long story short, once I got into learning ASL, it was like my whole perspective about myself and my deafness changed and I started realizing that all of my self-esteem issues were from striving to be "hearing" but failing to be successful with it despite having great oral and lipreading skills. I grew up with something missing within me but I didnt know what it was...it was my deaf identity. I grew up being ashamed of my deafness, hiding my hearing aids, being constantly stressed about making sure communication was clear with myself and my hearing peers because I DID NOT want any signs indicating that I was deaf being apparent. What I was doing was denying myself. Everyone else knew that I was deaf but I refused to see it.

Anyways, I took 4 levels of ASL and ended up going to Gallaudet University where I experienced big time culture shock. Since then, my life has been complete and I finally found peace and happiness.

No, I never stopped using my voice with my family members cuz they dont know any sign but I spend 95% of my time in a signing environment. I would rather be in a signing environment than a non-signing environment. I work with Deaf people, my hearing husband is fluent in sign lnaguage, and all of my friends know sign la nguage. I dont have any friends who dont know it cuz I dont want to go back to my old life again.

Yes, I will talk with hearing people but not as much as I do with my deaf friends or hearing friends who are involved with the Deaf community.

I am very very against oral-only deaf education because I had such a terrible upbringing in an oral-only environment among other reasons.

I am glad you are listening to your daughter and glad that your daughter knows what she wants at this age. I knew that I wanted to fit in with my hearing friends but I didnt know how no matter how hard I tried. I even did some self-destructive behaviors towards myself all in the name of acceptance.

Good luck with everything!
 
Again, I will refer back to my friend. She is very out-going, she always has been. When she was "oral" she was chatty and fun and popular (and now she is the same way in the Deaf community), she functions very well with her hearing aids and she is not genetically deaf. She turned her voice off because she wanted to. She feels that she has to struggle less if she uses ASL. She is able to understand 100% using an interpreter where as with speech-reading/listening it is more like 75%.

And for your information 95% of deaf people marry other deaf people, so it seems highly likely that your son-in-law will have a hearing loss. My friend married a Deaf man and her children turned out to be Deaf too (that is much less likely) but she cried when she found out the first child was Deaf. When I asked her why she said it was because she had never thought it was ok that she was deaf. To this day her parents can't sign more than a handful of functional signs and she has to use her voice and interpret for her husband when they are around, but whenever possible she uses a third party (ME!) to interpret and voice for her with her family.
 
Hugs to shel90! :)

Whenever I read about experiences such as yours, my heart breaks. Not being accepted as a child and teen can really affect a person's self-esteem as an adult. I am sorry that you felt out of place for so long, and the fact that you now seem to feel at home where you are now is wonderful. I know I can't make life perfect for my daughter, but I sure wish I could! I want to do whatever I can to give her the best life possible. In many ways she is a very happy person--life just began throwing her some curve balls as she hit adolescence. I think all of us adults would agree--yes, being a teenager CAN be fun, but most of us would NEVER want to go back through the agonizing emotions of those years. It is a tough life stage! And building friendships--as well as entering the dating world--is REALLY important to teenagers. I just want to put my daughter in an environment that is comfortable to her--I want her to continue to grow and develop in a positive way. Thanks for your input. It is always good to see things from other people's perspectives. I hope my daughter can look back, as an adult, and see that I did everything I could to give her the best life I possible could give her! :)
 
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