Crazy's comments from Brainwash camp...

I am trying to spread around on www.alldeaf.com to pay respect to the thread's title. Therefore I am creating this thread toward to the off-topic comments from Brainwashing camp for gay people ... I want to set the role and there people can follow my style and make www.alldeaf.com a best website to visit with clear and related to the thread's topic.

Crazymanw00t said:

Sorry to say this. You are obviously that you haven't read whole Bible. It already said that the Bible is against Homosexual and it is very clear. God judges the Homosexual act as a sin.

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deafdyke said:

Oh GAWD....WTF is the homosexual lifestyle? Is it partying, mindless sex and drugs? That ain't exclusive to the homosexual world...lots of straight people parcipatate in that
Crazymanwoot, please don't judge us. NOBODY but God knows if homosexuality is a sin or not! Hey....JESUS never spoke out against homosexuality....and I would bet that if He were alive today he'd be with the GLB people....back in His time He hung out with the outcasts and undesirables of society. Don't judge!!!!!

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cental34 said:

I agree with your statement concerning the people Jesus associated himself with. I believe if Jesus were to come back today, he would be completely different than the concept many have of him. Jesus was a compassionate, peaceful personality. Regardless if you believe in him or not, he is a good role model.

There is so much that could be judged as a sin. Smoking cigarettes could be seen as sinful. Eating too much be could be seen as sinful. Its God's role to judge, not ours. The Bible asks us to follow in Jesus' example, and Jesus was an accepting and compassionate person.

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Few words for Cental34. (Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ)God is LORD. LORD means that he will never adjusts/change his personality or his plan from past to future. You can look up in the dictionary with all upper case words LORD. LORD and Lord is different meaning. Lord is a king that rules whatever. LORD that never adjusts/change the plan from past to future and that is Jesus Christ. I am unsure if the Dictionary have LORD but the Lord is a for sure. I learned the word with LORD from the Bible and Church.

Now relate to the word with LORD in the bible. The Bible said God is LORD. If Jesus Christ is walking around here and he will be exactly same as he was walking on the Earth from 2,035 years ago. Therefore, he will preach that the Homosexual is sin with no questions asked. His point will say He created Adam and Eve. Not like Adam, John, and Eve.

Now to the point with those comments,

There is so much that could be judged as a sin. Smoking cigarettes could be seen as sinful. Eating too much be could be seen as sinful. Its God's role to judge, not ours. The Bible asks us to follow in Jesus' example, and Jesus was an accepting and compassionate person.

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Yes there are tooooo and toooo many sins around in this world. We are the sinner people and we are salve of sin. We never wanted to be a holy person until God opens our heart and change our heart from sinner to holy heart then we will be God's children.

Cigarette can be considered as sin because God commanded us to not destroy our own body. It means no drugs and cigarettes. With the Alcohol thing and God permission us to drink alcohol and don't be drunk. With those deep information and I am not knowledge with those information. I am still learning with that area. Therefore, I am wrong person to debate but I can give you the idea what the basic bible are trying to tell us.

I am unsure with eating too much acting like a sin. If you are eating too much, it could kill you, and then I can say it is a sin but I am not really strong with that statement.

God uses his people to gospel to the people about his wrath against our sins and to spread the good news about his grace and love at same time. We have to spread the bad news that God is going to judge us for what we are acting against God. It means that I and other Christian have to point out to the people's sin and tell them what GOD will judge you for. People will hate us because we are very offensive to them because we point out to their sins. That is the absolute truth information.

If I were a pragmatic christian person and I would say exactly same as you mention.

I'll sum up my whole arguement with two verses:

Romans 3:22-24

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

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Ephesians 2:7-9

7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

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Eating too much can be damaging to the body. It is gluttony. That is why I used that example. It could be considered as a sin.

Telling other people about their sin is judging them. We are not to condem others, but to spread God's word. That word is not damnation, but salvation. I think sin is irrelevant with that. Faith is our key to salvation. Jesus associated with so many different people. Whores, tax collectors (who were considered scum lowest of the low at the time), leopers, etc. He taught about forgiveness to them, not about condemnation. As I stated in another thread, I do not believe Jesus would come and preach to people what they're doing wrong, but about love and compassion.

I urge you to check out the link in my signature.

cental34 said:

I do find this on topic.

This is the only verse I can find that mentioned homosexuality. The verse is not exclusive of homosexuals. My point is that there are so many ways to interpret the Bible. And in some cases, people take it way too far. I'll direct you to http://www.godhatesfags.com as an example.

Now, you believe that Jesus would be preach that homosexuality is a sin. I disagree. I do not think he would preach about sin, period. Jesus' teachings are clearly focussed on forgiveness and compassion. Matthew 7 states "Judge not, least ye be judged." Judgement is God's role, not ours. I think the best way I can some of my point is with this quote. "Accept all people, not all ways."

And the way I was always taught, was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

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godhatesfags.com on the "Purpose" link said:

The only lawful sexual connection is the marriage bed. All other sex activity is whoremongery and adultery, which will damn the soul forever in Hell. Heb. 13:4. Decadent, depraved, degenerate and debauched America, having bought the lie that It's OK to be gay, has thereby changed the truth of God into a lie, and now worships and serves the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen! Rom. 1:25. But the Word of God abides. Better to be a eunuch if the will of God be so, and make sure of Heaven. Mat. 19:12. Better to be blind or lame, than to be cast into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Mk. 9:43-48. Abstain, you fools.

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http://www.godhatesfags.com is absolute right and it shows the some amount from God's wrath at us. His wrath is too impossible to measure it.
http://www.godhatesfags.com isn't a pragmatic website and that is why you don't like it because it is too blunt for you. You wanted to hear the absolute truth or from the pragmatic source? If absolute truth then that website is good to go. If pragmatic then your comments are right.

Now to the point and If I were a pragmatic person and I will say excatly same as you said. Sorry Jesus Christ didn't only focus on Forgiving and compassion. Jesus Christ showed the wraths against us, grace, love, forgive, and good news. I can't debate with you because you are strongly disagree that Jesus Christ will preach that Homosexual is a sinful act at here today. It is a pointless to debate with someone that is strongly disagree with what I am trying to tell them.

Let me pre-caution you little with someone that uses verses. Many pragmatic Christian will point out to few verses with short or long explaining to only those verses. Many pragmatic didn't know how to cross-over the verses with other verses with deep explainings. How can you prevent that? You need to read whole Chapter where the person points out on the verses. The verses is always relates to the whole chapter. The chapter will relates with the book and the book will relates with whole Bible. You also need to run background check with that person. Is that person a mature Christian? and many questions to ask. But important to read whole chapter before you start to discuss with the verses.

Crazymanw00t,

Of course the bible thumpers spice up the discussions here in AD in a diferent way.

Richard

Well if you're going to go that deep, challenging the credibility and meaning of the verses, then you'd have to challenge the credibility of the Bible itself. Contradictions, historical context, and interpretation, are a whole other discussion.

I have read these verses in full, and they clearly state what these verses sum up. They are used in the correct context. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated we are to be perfect and lead perfect lives. You haven't disagreed to this. I'm merely stating as Christians, we are required to show the same love to everyone that God has shown us. Judging someone's lifestyle is playing God's role.

1 Corinthians 13:5 (talking about God's love)

5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

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How can you support that website? It is a hate tool. Its message is clearly that God hates homosexuals. They have misinterpreted verses into their own message. But if you claim to believe in the all loving God that the Bible tells us about, then I am confused.

There is nothing blunt about it. Its the easiest thing to understand. We cannot lead perfect lives. We are all sinners. All sin is equal in God's eyes. And we cannot be justified in front of God by works. Our faith is the only key to salvation. If you disagree with this, then you disagree with the Bible's message.

cental34 said:

Telling other people about their sin is judging them.

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First of all, we are on same page. That is what I pracitices. God shows the wrath and love and forgives.

Second, with the quote above here. If you see red and you say it is red, and why? Because you see it right? It applies to the people you see people doing the sin and you say it is sin. It is not like judging. I am not here to say you will be in hell period. I am here to point out that is sin or not. Hell or Heaven is God's job and not my job. Do you get my point?

cental34 said:

Well if you're going to go that deep, challenging the credibility and meaning of the verses, then you'd have to challenge the credibility of the Bible itself. Contradictions, historical context, and interpretation, are a whole other discussion.

I have read these verses in full, and they clearly state what these verses sum up. They are used in the correct context. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated we are to be perfect and lead perfect lives. You haven't disagreed to this. I'm merely stating as Christians, we are required to show the same love to everyone that God has shown us. Judging someone's lifestyle is playing God's role.

1 Corinthians 13:5 (talking about God's love)


How can you support that website? It is a hate tool. Its message is clearly that God hates homosexuals. They have misinterpreted verses into their own message. But if you claim to believe in the all loving God that the Bible tells us about, then I am confused.

There is nothing blunt about it. Its the easiest thing to understand. We cannot lead perfect lives. We are all sinners. All sin is equal in God's eyes. And we cannot be justified in front of God by works. Our faith is the only key to salvation. If you disagree with this, then you disagree with the Bible's message.

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We are on same page. God do have the hate. He hate the sin. That is his hate. His love is us.

Finally I see someone else using the Justification Faith! That word is a very very very important word for the salvation process.

Alright, now we are on the same page. You are right, sin is sin. But go further into Matthew 7.

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

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We are all sinners, and for us to sit here and talk about others sin, is exactly what this verse is talking about. We should not judge others sin, because we ourselves have our own sin, and until we are perfect and sinless, we should not concern ourselves with how others live their lives.

Thank you. We are finally at an understanding. Justification is through faith. And yes, you are correct about the verse. "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner."

Sorry to say this. You are obviously that you haven't read whole Bible. It already said that the Bible is against Homosexual and it is very clear. God judges the Homosexual act as a sin.

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Sorry, but yes I have read the Bible. If it is clear and obvious that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, then how come so many different churches have differing interpretations of those verses? Why the debate over the translations and interpretations? We're not talking about people justifying murder or theivery or adultery or rape or whatever. We are talking about a relationship between two loving consenting people. We are talking of people who LOVE each other....LOVE which after all is the essense of God.
Hey, many christians might believe that the Bible says that God thinks interracial marriage is a sin, or that burning witches at the stake isn't against the ten commandments, or a lot of other things. You ought to check out some of the sites by gay christians.....one of my favorite singers is a gay christian and she wrote a song called Philosophy of Loss about being disillisuioned and losing her faith b/c her church did not welcome her.
Did you know that there are christian churches that accept gays and don't think of it as a sin? I'll be back lata with more links and stuff.....open your mind....anyway you cannot deny that Jesus (who is the basis for your relgion) NEVER said anything about homsoexuality. Do not judge. Judge ye that ye not be judged!

Deafdyke, you are correct about interpretation. So many people interpret the Bible differently. This is the main reason for so many denominations and division. I honestly can't say I know how to correctly interpret the whole Bible. I can only trust the wisdom and understanding that I've been given.

cental34 said:

Alright, now we are on the same page. You are right, sin is sin. But go further into Matthew 7.

We are all sinners, and for us to sit here and talk about others sin, is exactly what this verse is talking about. We should not judge others sin, because we ourselves have our own sin, and until we are perfect and sinless, we should not concern ourselves with how others live their lives.

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Yeah we all are sinner. Some people are unawared with their sinful life so we need to help them to see their own sinful life. You need to remember that I always confront with them into a polite way. Some of them freaked out and pointed out to me with that Mathew 7. I always told them that I am sinner just like you.

So I explained what the Matt 7 really mean. The Matt 7 was talking to the people. The person who points out the sin or measuring the sin thinks himself as a holy person and pointing out to the sinner people. God is telling to those "the holy person" that they are sinner too just like those other sinner people.

You may want to look closely with those verse 3-5. Who was it talking to? His brother and what does it means behind the word with brother. If you put "The guy that thinks himself as a holy person" and whole thing makes sense. If you put "a sinner guy" it could make sense but it depends how the person points out the sinner's sin. If he was measuring the others sin and that Matt 7 applies to it. Sin is sin.

Now moving to my point. I don't measure other people's sin and I always say that is a sin. There is nothing wrong with calling people that is a sin. That is a fact information and people needs to know it whatever they like it or not.

Do you call it judging like that? You saw a red box on the table and you say it is a red box. A person said that you are judging the red box because it is a red box. Does it make sense? It is a fact information not a judging thing.

I'm sorry, but I do consider that judging someone. I respect your view, though, but I disagree, and there is no real right way to argue either perspective, as it there is no real basis for either side to argue on.

Verse 3-5 is an example of how we are quick to judge others sin, yet we disregard the fact we are sinners, and many times, worse than the people we are judging.

deafdyke said:

Sorry, but yes I have read the Bible. If it is clear and obvious that the Bible says that
homosexuality is a sin, then
how come so many different churches have differing interpretations of those verses?

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Some churches are too pragmatic and it conflicts with other churches. Some Churches have different beliefs and it impacts with the interpretations for example Reformed and Baptist is little different. Reformed believes God elects and 5 points and the Baptist don't believe in God elects.

Why the debate over the translations and interpretations?

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Some Churches twist the translations/interpretations and the church who knows the absolute right from the Bible is trying to correct the twisted translations/interpretations. That is how it caused to have a debate with it.

We're not talking about people justifying murder or theivery or adultery or rape or whatever. We are talking about a relationship between two loving consenting people. We are talking of people who LOVE each other....LOVE which after all is the essense of God.

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Yeah, You can love everyone but you don't have to have sex with everyone or with same-sex. You only can have sex after you marry with opposite-sex and not with transexual.

Hey, many christians might believe that the Bible says that God thinks interracial marriage is a sin, or that burning witches at the stake isn't against the ten commandments, or a lot of other things.

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Well, I couldn't find a verse with interracial marriage is a sin. It must be a white person that is KKK or can't accept the black family into their family because of white power or something else and more of fears from the black people. Where did the Bible say it is ok to burn the witches? None. You need to remember this many people tends to abuse the Bible for a quick solution because people tends to say ok whenever you said it is said from the Bible! Well, you need to check if it matches what the Bible said then you know what to do. If not then the person is abusing the power from the Bible with you.

You ought to check out some of the sites by gay christians.....one of my favorite singers is a gay christian and she wrote a song called Philosophy of Loss about being disillisuioned and losing her faith b/c her church did not welcome her.

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The Church did right thing to ask her to leave from their Church. She refuses to repent her sin, homosexual. So The church had to ask her to leave to prevent spreading the sinful life at the Church. Anyway I am narrowing to the point that you stated. She lost her faith and she never had a faith at first place. It is called fake faith. Once you have faith and you will always have the faith until you die.

Did you know that there are christian churches that accept gays and don't think of it as a sin?

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That Church must be a pragmatic church. They want them because of their money and not to repent them to God. Or the Church is trying to brag the numbers at the Church.

I'll be back lata with more links and stuff.....open your mind....anyway you cannot deny that Jesus (who is the basis for your relgion) NEVER said anything about homsoexuality. Do not judge. Judge ye that ye not be judged!

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I am not narrow-minded person I am just following the Bible. I know there are many situations but I choose to follow the Bible because the Bible is a perfect plan to follow.

Please read my points about the judging thing.

cental34 said:

I'm sorry, but I do consider that judging someone. I respect your view, though, but I disagree, and there is no real right way to argue either perspective, as it there is no real basis for either side to argue on.

Verse 3-5 is an example of how we are quick to judge others sin, yet we disregard the fact we are sinners, and many times, worse than the people we are judging.

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Yeah. That is my perspective on that. You may want to do the deep anaylze with that Matt 7 and ask some Churches for a better information. You also may want to read the sources that states the Matt 7 in 19th century and 18th or earlier. You may see the time change and the explaining of Matthew 7 changes and you need to find it out why it is changing. Is it changing because of the pragmatic situation? I should anaylze like that and write a book about it.

cental34 said:

I'm merely stating as Christians, we are required to show the same love to everyone that God has shown us. Judging someone's lifestyle is playing God's role.

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Well said!

Methinks thou does protest too much...

CMW, you need to take a chill pill - Alex made this an OPEN forum for all, no matter what their race, sexual orientation, or disability were...

You remember the famous poem about the Nazis taking away people?

First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me –
And there was no-one left
To speak out for me.

And then there's this...

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)

He says EVERY creature...which means ALL of us. Doesnt matter what color we are, what sex we are, what sexual orientation we are, what race we are, what we are... it says EVERY creature. We all have a choice - we can choose to believe in Jesus or we can choose to not believe in Jesus.

And now I come to this...since you are protesting so much, it makes me think you are a latent homosexual... and are in deep denial.

There. I've said something.

you go girl!!!

Right on DreamDeaf that was the good.

you get them girl.

Ridilin

DreamDeaf said:

Methinks thou does protest too much...

CMW, you need to take a chill pill - Alex made this an OPEN forum for all, no matter what their race, sexual orientation, or disability were...

You remember the famous poem about the Nazis taking away people?

First they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out –
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me –
And there was no-one left
To speak out for me.

And then there's this...

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to
every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)

He says EVERY creature...which means ALL of us. Doesnt matter what color we are, what sex we are, what sexual orientation we are, what race we are, what we are... it says EVERY creature. We all have a choice - we can choose to believe in Jesus or we can choose to not believe in Jesus.

And now I come to this...since you are protesting so much, it makes me think you are a latent homosexual... and are in deep denial.

There. I've said something.

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Jews does not accept Jesus Christ cuz they don't want to go into heaven with those nazi-born again christians whom they had murdered their families. So Jews must be bad and nazi must be good because they chose to believe in Jesus Christ even thou they killed million of jews. Jews burn in hell forever and Nazi born again Christian live in paradise does not sound good with me.

jazzy said:

Jews does not accept Jesus Christ cuz they don't want to go into heaven with those nazi-born again christians whom they had murdered their families. So Jews must be bad and nazi must be good because they chose to believe in Jesus Christ even thou they killed million of jews. Jews burn in hell forever and Nazi born again Christian live in paradise does not sound good with me.

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