For driver's license, Louisiana boys must register for the draft(More backdoor draft)

ALEXANDRIA (AP) - When Larry Chevalier took his son to get his first driver's license, he was floored to discover that to get it, the boy had to preregister for a nonexistent military draft.

''I just can't believe it,'' said Chevalier, whose 16-year-old son, Nathan, did fill out the form to register with the Selective Service so he could get his license.

''They wouldn't let him get it otherwise,'' Chevalier said Saturday.

Even a 15-year-old boy who wants a learner's permit in Louisiana must provide information to be forwarded, when he turns 18, to the Selective Service System, which would run a military draft if one is set up again.

The same goes for any 16- 17- or 18-year-old who wants his - the law applies only to males - first driver's license or state ID card.

''They can't even be a conscientious objector to signing up,'' said Chevalier, of Glenmora.

The state forwards the information to a federal center which holds it until the boy's 18th birthday, when he is old enough to enter military service. It is used to automatically register him with Selective Service.

Nobody much noticed the law when the Legislature passed it in 2003. What got people's attention that year was a law to suspend the licenses of some students expelled or suspended from high school.

Rudy Sanchez, general counsel for the federal Selective Service System, was also floored to learn that 15-year-olds were being asked to preregister. ''Louisiana shouldn't be registering 15-year-olds. We don't even register 16-year-olds,'' he said last week.

Federal law only provides for ''early submission'' of information by a young man who is at least 17 years and three months old, he noted. When he turns 18, it is forwarded to the proper database.

The law requires only that young men register within 30 days before or after their 18th birthdays.

Other states have passed laws requiring young men to register with Selective Service when they get a driver's license, but none requires it of 15-year-olds, he said.

Everett Bonner, state director of Selective Service, said information collected by the Office of Motor Vehicles is forwarded to a federal data management center in Chicago.

''They do accept it. I can promise you. They do not process it until the young man turns 18,'' he said.

He said registering young men when they get their drivers' licenses is a convenience and a way to help those who don't know they must register. Anyone failing to register is ''considered a felon without conviction,'' he said, and may lose opportunities and benefits. Chevalier questioned how the state can force a minor child to ''sign on the dotted line'' without his parents' consent.

Bonner said parents must sign for a minor to get a driver's license and that should suffice for draft registration as well.

''What I don't like is somebody having all this information about kids and somebody sitting up there in some private meeting discussing how many young people they have available for the draft in two years,'' Chevalier said.

There is no national military draft, and the major presidential candidates all said repeatedly that they don't plan to reinstate one.

Chevalier said he himself was ''too young for Vietnam and too old for anything afterward,'' but his family has a tradition of military service. ''Somebody in my family has served in every war since the Revolutionary War,'' he said.

It doesn't bother him that his son would have to sign up with Selective Service when he turns 18. ''But to be signing up kids at 15 and 16 years old, I do have a problem with that,'' he said.

''All this is to where the government can get a closer eye on the kids. I really believe it's going against their civil liberties.''

The bill's sponsor was Hunt Downer, an assistant adjutant general in the National Guard and former House speaker whom Gov. Kathleen Blanco appointed in August to head the new Department of Veterans Affairs.

Young men at a recent YMCA-sponsored driver's education course shrugged when they learned of the requirement.

''I don't care,'' said Mark Fontenot, a 16-year-old student at Apostolic Christian Academy.

Pineville High School student Josh Stokes, 15, said, ''I think it's good.'

Neither would elaborate.

''I think it's all right. I can't do anything about it anyway,'' said Stephen White, 16 and a student at Alexandria Senior High School.

Chevalier said he plans to do something, or at least try. He plans to submit a report to the American Civil Liberties Union, and is putting together information packets to send to all state legislators.

''They said it was to make it easier on an 18-year-old. How can they say it makes it easier on an 18-year-old when it's putting more pressure on a 15-year-old?'' he said.

Source: http://www.deridderdailynews.com/articles/2004/11/16/news/news2.txt


Again, that's Bush for you.

Again, that's Bush for you.

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Excuse me? What does Bush have to do with this story at all? When did George Bush create the selective service and require males to register?

Why would you blame Bush when it was Louisiana that passed the law that requires males to pre-register. While I think its stupid for them to do this, why in the world would you say this is George Bush's fault?

BTW, the Governor of Louisiana is a Democrat. Shouldn't you change your closing line to 'Again, thats the Democrats for you.'

uh. I strongly suggest you to look up on SSS information and you will realize that Bush and his pals is the one who approved it.

Many people warned everyone thru media, newspapers, magazines, e-news, blogs, editorals, list is limitless... that Bush will push the draft in but under the different name a.k.a. SSS. And people refused to believe until now. More and more backdoor draft comes in and draft these former soldiers... and now SSS program.

Governor of Lousiana have NOTHING with the draft, who have the final approval? Lemme spell it out for you. GEORGE W. BUSH. Again, look up on SSS and you will notice your lovely pResident's or his pals' name on it.

Edit: Also... SSS is federal so therefore state powers such as Governor DON'T have any power to dismiss that. And one more thing, you have to remember who started war? Bush did. Not democrats. Not Governor of Lousiana. Not God. Not Jesus. Not Saddam. Not Democrats. Ooops, seem that I mentioned 'democrats' twice. So therefore any kind of draft is pointing out to Bush's direction, not anyone else. I believe you should know that draft itself is federal, not state... Once again, Governor has nothing to do with it, I am more than sure that governor would love to block it or dismiss to protect these kids but it is totally out of his hands.

Second edit: I posted two topics (I believe) about SSS in this forum... Democrats has been blocked it for years and years until Bush unblock and approved it.

And you forget one thing, who is commander in chief exactly? Bush! Not Democrats! :P

Uh....I strongly suggest you look at it as well. When I was 18 years old, George Bush was not president. I still had to go to the Post office upon my 18th Birthday to sign for Select Service. This has been a requirement for years and not some newly created BackDoor draft by George W Bush. You have me wondering what it was I exactly signed if Selective Service didn't exist before George W Bush [/sarcasm]

The state forwards the information to a federal center which holds it until the boy's 18th birthday, when he is old enough to enter military service. It is used to automatically register him with Selective Service.

Nobody much noticed the law when the Legislature passed it in 2003. What got people's attention that year was a law to suspend the licenses of some students expelled or suspended from high school.

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See that quote right there...re-read it. Selective Service has nothing to do with the state of Louisiana requiring kids getting drivers licenses register for the Selective Service. That is a Louisiana Law and not a federal law. It is Louisiana that requires new drivers to register.
How is it that George Bush is responsible for the Louisiana law?
That is not a federal law, nor is it a federal mandate. Again, Louisiana passed that law.

For your other comments regarding Selective Service:

In 1940, prior to U.S. entry into World War II, the first peacetime draft in our nation's history was enacted in response to increased world tension and the system was able to fill wartime manpower needs smoothly and rapidly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. At the end of the war the draft law was allowed to expire, but it was reenacted less than two years later to maintain necessary military manpower levels as a result of the Cold War. From 1948 until 1973, during both peacetime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means. Induction authority expired in 1973, but the Selective Service System remained in existence in a "standby" posture to support the all-volunteer force in case an emergency should make it necessary for Congress to authorize a resumption of inductions.

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From the Selective Service website. Where is it that George Bush started the Selective Service. You must think George Bush is God if you think he went back in time to 1940 to have this created (again, he's the one who started it, right?). He then shot forward to 1973 to make sure Selective Service remained intact even though the draft did not.

I know what you are getting at with the talk of the re-instatement of the 'Draft'

On October 5, 2004, the House of Representatives voted 402 - 2 to defeat H.R. 163, the bill cited as proof that the Selective Service was preparing to reinstate a military draft. The vote made official what has been a reality since January 7, 2003, when H.R. 163 was introduced despite nearly total opposition in Congress to restoring the draft. Without Congressional support, the draft cannot be reinstated. A similar bill languishes in the Senate.

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You say George Bush is re-instating the draft (although both Bush and Kerry say they are are against it).

When I turned 18, it was just at the intro to the first Gulf War. I can tell you that back then, there was talk of re-instating the draft. I was scared sheetless thinking that on my 18th birtday I would be carted off to the Middle East.

So, I'll ask you again, what does George Bush have to do with Louisiana making new drivers register for the Selective Service? I also ask that you point me to where George Bush created (or even changed for that matter) the purpose of Selective Service. The selective service has been there my entire lifetime and nothing as changed. In fact, there is some good information on the SSS website in regards to changes over the years:

The Agency has changed dramatically since the 1970s. A series of reforms during the latter part of the Vietnam conflict changed the way the draft operated. If a draft were held today it would be the most equitable draft in history:

If a draft were held today there would be fewer reasons to excuse a man from service.

Before Congress reformed the draft in 1971, a man could qualify for a student deferment if he could show he was a full-time student making satisfactory progress in virtually any field of study. He could continue to go to school and be deferred from service until he was too old to be drafted. Under the new draft law, a college student could have his induction postponed only until the end of the current semester. A senior could be postponed until the end of the full academic year.

If a draft were held today, local boards would better represent the communities they serve.

The changes in the new draft law made in 1971 included the provision that membership on the boards was required to be as representative as possible of the racial and ethnic background of the area served by the board.

Before 1971, state and local boards used a "quota system" under which they assigned a certain number of men to the draft. Because the boards determined who would be drafted, there were instances when personal relationships and favoritism played a part in deciding who would be drafted. Today, the Uniform National Call ensures that men will be treated the same, no matter which board they are assigned to.

A draft held today would use a lottery to determine the order of call.

Before the lottery was implemented in the latter part of the Vietnam conflict, there was no system in place to determine order of call besides the fact that men between the ages of 18 and 26 were vulnerable to being drafted. This lack of a system resulted in uncertainty for the potential draftees during the entire time they were within the draft-eligible age group. All throughout a young man’s early 20’s he did not know if he would be drafted. A draft held today would use a lottery system under which a man would spend only one year in first priority for the draft—either the calendar year he turned 20 or the year his deferment ended, whichever came first. If he was not drafted in his first priority year, he dropped into second priority. In this way he would be spared the uncertainty of waiting until his 26th birthday to be certain he would not be drafted.

If a draft were held today, a registrant would be guaranteed a personal appearance before his board if he wanted to appeal his classification.

Before 1971, a draftee was not guaranteed this right, and so some decisions about whether a man would be drafted were made based on paperwork. Today, if a man wanted to appeal to his Local Board for an exemption or deferment, he could speak to them directly.

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The above changes were made in 1971. While scary to look at, I still fail to see how George Bush is responsible for that if it happened in 1971

Okay, I am going to gather the informations, NY Times have plenty information on SSS and its tricks but I will have to pay the subscription rate to access that. In other words, it will be a while for me to gather and reveal more information to counter your information.

The most important part that you seemingly miss or perhaps, avoid.. Who started the war? Democrats? Next important part, draft is the federal and you forget that they clearly mention that draft will never come up... which that is true but there is other word for draft. In other words, they will find a loophole and push.

Now Bush as Commander-in-Chief (which is unfortunately), why not he stop these backdoor drafts since he 'claimed' that there will be no draft under his second term? Why did many former soldiers recieved the draft and was ordered to go to war? Well? I await for your answer on these important parts.

I am going to subscribe the NT Times articles and gather the informations from there.

Beside these, I am sure that Kerry will close these backdoor drafts if he wins the election. You can take that to the bank if you want to but we will never find out because Bush won this time. Now backdoor drafts practically explode in these days right after the election. So why?

Magatsu,
I'm not saying that the Republicans had nothing to do with the war. My point was in regards to the article that was pointed out. The article is in regards to a state law. Louisiana passed this law, not George Bush. George Bush is not to blame when the state makes the kids register for SSS. They would have to register anyway at the age of 18. For the record, I am against them making them register do get their drivers license.

Beside these, I am sure that Kerry will close these backdoor drafts if he wins the election. You can take that to the bank if you want to but we will never find out because Bush won this time. Now backdoor drafts practically explode in these days right after the election. So why?

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Not sure exactly what the election has to do with it. The Louisana law was passed well prior to the election. It was also passed by their state legislature.

As for the SSS, as I previously mentioned, there are some scary things in there, but nothing has changed in several decades. I find it difficult to blame Bush because something was changed 30 years ago. Again, its scary as to what is in there, but Bush didn't do it. You seem to think that George Bush can snap his fingers and make the change now. If that were the case, he could snap his fingers and revamp Social Security, Healthcare and the welfare system. Although the president, people seem to think that he can do whatever he wants, and that is far from the truth.

I'm also not familiar with the 'Backdoor Draft' you are referring to. Are you referring to soldiers who are called back into active duty? If that is the case, that is what they signed up for. How are the feds illegally calling up soldiers?


When I first started in broadcast radio, I signed what is called a non-compete. This clause in my contract says that I cannot work for a radio or TV station within the same market for 1 year after I leave. I *attempted* to retire from radio when I joined the police department, but they talked me into staying part time. Had that been the end of my employment there, it means that I could not work in this city for 1 year after me leaving. Sound unfair? I hate the idea that I could not work for another station, even if they offered me 4 times my salary....I would have to turn it down. Why is that? Its because I signed a contract stating that I would not jump across town to a competing station. If I were fired from the police tommorrow, I could not fall back on my radio career, at least in this city.

Anyhow, I look at it the same way with what soldiers sign when they enlist in the military. If they sign something that says they can be called back to active duty, and they are called back, how is that a 'Backdoor Draft'? Yeah, it sucks that it would happen, especially after you *think* you've done your time and have moved on with your life. You aren't officially done until the time on that contract expires. If they didn't like the terms of their contract with the military, they could have either walked away or possibly negotiated a better contract (I don't think they are up for negotiation, but I can't say for sure).

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see how this is an illegal back door draft....In fact, take the illegal out of it...I fail to see how this is a back door draft at all. Please educate me on what it is that I'm missing.

One of the problems is some of the attitudes themselves. I've seen a lot of people join the military for the sole benefit of getting a paid college education and other benefits. The US does not have a lot of wars. A lot of people signed up placing their bets that a war would not happen. We spend more years in peacetime than in wartime. Had I enlisted in the 80's, I wouldn't have envisioned going to war. Many probably thought the same thing after the First Gulf war....it was done and over and would be another 20+years before they had to fight.

Taylor,

You are quite right about the "back door draft". That is a totally bogus term as relating to Reservists. I was in the Reserves for 17 of my total 24 years military service, so I know how the system works. Several of those years I was on the staff of a regional Reserve headquarters, so I also saw how things operated "behind the scenes". My hubby was on active duty for 21 years, and one of his assignments was processing Reservists for active duty recall during the first Gulf War, so he also has some insight to the system. (He was also a draftee during Vietnam, so he knows how the real draft works.)

Liberals know that "back door draft" sounds more threatening than "activation of Reservists" to the uninformed.

It's nice to see that they're preparing these kids for war instead of college. You think they would have at least let them finish high school...