Why Cochlear Implants Hurt Deaf Culture?

Cheri said:
If you personally don't care why the hell did you jump all over ButterFlyGirl for? Not everyone feels it's ok to lie to the society like you feel it's ok.
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I feel that labeling ourself a different term whether deaf, hearing hard of hearing, is a personal choice and it doesn't matter what other people think. I was talking about a CI person labeling themselves not misinforming society, but I can see that you feel this can misinform society. What if a deaf person calls themselves hard of hearing? Would you feel offended?
 
ButterflyGirl said:
Well, actually it was both of us when the sales lady came up to us and all I did was to let her know that we were deaf after my friend spoke to her and then the sales lady had this puzzled look on her face. I wasn't helping my friend but I was helping the sales lady to know so she could speak more slowly for us or write down notes for us.
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I wish that we can give IceCream to being drunk or hazing him to being drunk with bunch of beers. That will be great news for me and if he can said "CI sucks" when he's drunk. Anyone who are ready to go party? :lol:
 
IceCream said:
I feel that labeling ourself a different term whether deaf, hearing hard of hearing, is a personal choice and it doesn't matter what other people think. I was talking about a CI person labeling themselves not misinforming society, but I can see that you feel this can misinform society. What if a deaf person calls themselves hard of hearing? Would you feel offended?
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It is not a matter of being offense, It's a matter of a true identity. If you're not who you really are, why lie about it? Be truthful within yourself and with others around you. That's important. If people want to lie about who they really are, if lying makes them happy be it, I don't care. I would eventually tell others the truth, that this person just lied to you, "She is really a deaf person with a cochlear implant" If a deaf person calls themselves hard of hearing, I'll ask them can you speak? Can you read lips, If not I'll know right away this person is not hard of hearing. Even hearing people would know that too. ;)
 
Please guys let's discuss this topic in a civil manner without putting anyone down and let's respect each others here as well too cause I don't want to see my thread being locked


Thanks :angel:


:holding up a peace sign:
 
^Angel^ said:
Please guys let's discuss this topic in a civil manner without putting anyone down and let's respect each others here as well too...


Thanks :angel:


:holding up a peace sign:
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Welcome back!!! :hug:
 
I think it's best that if next time someone identify themselves as hearing, ask them why. Maybe you'll find out something more about their meaning rather than assume they are lying about it. Maybe they feel they hear good enough, so they personally want to call themselves hearing. I feel it's their personal choice. I'd like to hear from a CI person who feels hearing why they prefer to label themselves hearing.

Remember many hearing people assume that a CI person is hearing, and if they don't respond the way they expect a hearing person should, they will assume it's not working. I always tell them that it's not perfect, but my hearing is better. I don't think hearing people will know the whole truth.

I was told before that CI simply doesn't work and gives people infections until I found the truth by researching myself. I didn't go back to her and tell her that she lied to me. I am just glad I found out the truth myself. That person did not like CI's. When I told her I got it later when I saw her again, she said, " I am happy for you." She did not talk to me much, and she didn't really seem happy for me. Well, I don't know why she takes it personally that I got one and didn't remain deaf and join the Deaf Culture.

See a lot of misconceptions about CI that really makes the Deaf Culture feel hurt. I don't see the real hurt to the Deaf Culture. I see a lot of misconceptions. Once the Deaf Culture put their swords up when the CI came out, a bunch of lies were spread about the CI. I think that's why the CI people feel annoyed plus I feel many in the Deaf Culture don't want to hear of the CI and want people to be deaf, period. Which I find sick...
 
OMG! Whatever IceCream. Don't speak for me, Don't think for me, Don't take words out of my mouth either. I'm just going to ignored your annoying post. ;)
 
If anyone feel that they don't see CI is hurting the deaf culture fine but please do not speak for the others here, I create this thread in order to hear both sides, I don't appreciate anyone saying that theres alot of misconceptions going on when everyone see it different and what sort of experiences they all went through as well too so I will not make such judgements at all because I have not walked a miles in their shoes so there's no reason for me to judge them or how they feel about their deaf culture, if anyone wants to hear one side, please create your own thread don't do it here, I expect everyone to see where others are coming from on both sides, and also allowing them to be able to express their feeling without being jumped on, if you can not do that, please post somewhere else but don't do it in my thread....:(



And one more thing, please provide me a link or two on where it say that CI users may be considered as hearing not deaf or hard of hearing?...
 
Poor Angel! I have visions of you like Wonder Woman holding up your wrists to deflect all those bullets flying in!

I've never actually seen anything official in terms of redefining yourself as a deaf, hard of hearing or hearing person after receiving an implant. I've only ever seen it expressed as a change in your hearing loss when you have the processor turned on only. For example I hope for my hearing loss with the processor turned on to go from profound to moderate.

As a person though I won't change and when the processor is turned off I will be back to where I was before. My deafness has defined me and made me what I am now.

To be honest I find it bizarre for someone to no longer consider themselves deaf upon receiving an implant. But that's just me. Maybe the people who change their definitions are thinking more of deaf with a capital D and associate it only with use of sign etc.
 
I dont think cochlear implants will hurt the deaf culture - I think it just expanded it to a new group and also expanded the meaning of deaf culture - however, I do have an issue of CI people calling themselves hearies... I had a problem with a guy here in StL who had been implanted and then went about calling himself a hearing person... I kept silent - then when he started putting down deaf people and deaf culture, saying that it was all pure and utter nonsense...I confronted him.

I asked him whenver he goes to the doctor, dentist or business, do they really, really understand him? FYI, his voice sounds so much like gravel, it really grates on my nerves...

He hemmed and hawed... then admitted he still had to write things down whenever no one could understand him...

Then I asked him if he put down hearing on his applications...he said yes.

I then told him it was possible he was breaking the law - because by ADA, medical and law definitions, he was still "disabled" and therefore, he was still considered DEAF.

I then asked him how he interacted wtih his deaf friends...he would not answer me. His wife then told me that he had completely dropped them after he got the implant, saying that he no longer needed to hang around them now that he was hearing... and found himself totally isolated. His wife is still busy and active in the deaf community, while he stays home and watch television with the close captioner on... I looked at him, and asked him why he was still using it if he stated so firmly he was hearing?

He wouldnt answer that either...

Now its been several years, and he has done an 180 degree turn...he has become more active in the deaf community, and is willing to explain the CI device to people who asks...and now calls himself DEAF with a CI.

It's sad, though... when people with CIs expect more than they can really hope for.

No, I dont think deaf culture is in danger of dying out... we just expanded to new horizons and made the box bigger.
 
IceCream said:
To be purely honest, I feel very much that the Deaf Culture exaggerate some things about the CI. I feel strongly that the Deaf Culture CHOOSE to be slapped in the face and feel betrayed. Medicine is not doing anything wrong. That's what medicine does. They come up with ways to help us. That's what they do just like helping people see and other people have skin to help them feel more normal. So when a CI device came out, the Deaf Culture suddenly wanted to destroy it to keep the deaf deaf. Some people want to be hearing. That's a fact. I feel that the Deaf Culture exaggerate certain things about the CI. I feel it's completely sick to tell every deaf person and every deaf parent not to choose hearing for their children, so that the Deaf Culture can thrive on. I wonder, don't Deaf people know that deaf people have already seen the Deaf culture, and maybe they just don't want to be a part of it? Should all deaf people be part of the Deaf culture? Why? Just because we are deaf? That's like saying, you should be part of the KKK because your parents are. If there are deaf people who do not want to be part of the Deaf Culture, that's their choice. What if the KKK died because more Christians changed the KKK to view the world differently? Maybe CIers feel rejected the same way because the Deaf Culture rejects them for their CI and exaggerates facts about the CI. Since the beginning of the CI, Deaf Culture have put their swords up, so some people want to hear and choose to leave the Deaf Culture because of rejection. I am not sure that sounds like it's the CI fault.
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You mentioned three different things... medicine, machine, and philosophy.

Medicine is something people take to fix something temporary or permanent. If I have a cough and take cough medicine, I get better. No, I wasn't cured because I can still get a cough later. If it was an actual cure, I would never get a cough the way I did before. CI isn't medicine. It's a machine. People take medicine for CI to help fight the infection, but it has nothing to do with the CI itself or the deafness.

Machine is something based on technology and/or electronics. CI is something that's put in your head. There is an external source of power and communication that relays the sounds from the outside world. It's not medicine because it isn't taken internally.

Philosophy is different. KKK is not medicine or machine. KKK is a group of people whose philosophy is that colors don't belong in the world of white. That's their philosophy and belief.
 
Getting CI doesn't make a person hearing. If a person believes that he is hearing because he has CI, you can point out that he is still deaf. If he is stubborn and still considers himself hearing, let it go. It only shows that he isn't ready to accept the fact that he is still deaf. If other people see him say that, he's only making it worse for himself. In the work force, co-workers could see this as a problem. If a person can't accept the fact that he is still deaf, maybe he won't accept the fact that he did other things. Refusing to accept facts is like lying. You lie too much and it becomes a thing for you. You refuse to accept the facts and it becomes a thing for you. In the future, you could make a mistake on the job and end up refusing to accept the fact that you made a mistake and move on. You could have a girlfriend and do something harmful to her that she dumps you, but you refuse to accept the fact that it was you who harmed her. I've seen these things often here at NTID. I've seen students who get so into refusing to accept facts that they don't listen to the truth because they feel that they live better on lies. But, they go deeper and deeper in those lies that they lose their friends and end up leaving school. I've seen students here who have CI and say that they are hearing. Yet, they have horrible writing and reading skills. They take 5 years to get a 2-year degree. They don't have a job. They don't have any friends. It's a sad world for these people.

If a situation like this came up to me, it would probably be like this...

Me: "Oh, I see you got CI. Cool."
CI: "Yeah, I'm now hearing."
Me: "You mean,k you hear like a hearing person or you are no longer deaf?"
CI: "I am hearing. I'm not deaf."
Me: "Okay, without your CI... what are you?"
CI: "I am hearing."
Me: "Okay, take off your CI and prove it."
CI: "No, I can't hear."
Me: "Oh, you can't hear? Wouldn't that make you deaf?"
CI: "Oh, shut up. You don't know. Bye." *walks off*
 
Cheri said:
http://www.handsandvoices.org/services/guide.htm

Which is so true! I've even said that most hearing parents has no knowledge of how to raise a deaf child nor have no knowledge what to do. That's why most hearing parents rushed into getting implants for their deafness children. What a shame! :(
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So it would be like saying deaf parents have no business raising hearing children.
 
VamPyroX said:
Getting CI doesn't make a person hearing. If a person believes that he is hearing because he has CI, you can point out that he is still deaf. If he is stubborn and still considers himself hearing, let it go. It only shows that he isn't ready to accept the fact that he is still deaf. If other people see him say that, he's only making it worse for himself. In the work force, co-workers could see this as a problem. If a person can't accept the fact that he is still deaf, maybe he won't accept the fact that he did other things. Refusing to accept facts is like lying. You lie too much and it becomes a thing for you. You refuse to accept the facts and it becomes a thing for you. In the future, you could make a mistake on the job and end up refusing to accept the fact that you made a mistake and move on. You could have a girlfriend and do something harmful to her that she dumps you, but you refuse to accept the fact that it was you who harmed her. I've seen these things often here at NTID. I've seen students who get so into refusing to accept facts that they don't listen to the truth because they feel that they live better on lies. But, they go deeper and deeper in those lies that they lose their friends and end up leaving school. I've seen students here who have CI and say that they are hearing. Yet, they have horrible writing and reading skills. They take 5 years to get a 2-year degree. They don't have a job. They don't have any friends. It's a sad world for these people.

If a situation like this came up to me, it would probably be like this...

Me: "Oh, I see you got CI. Cool."
CI: "Yeah, I'm now hearing."
Me: "You mean,k you hear like a hearing person or you are no longer deaf?"
CI: "I am hearing. I'm not deaf."
Me: "Okay, without your CI... what are you?"
CI: "I am hearing."
Me: "Okay, take off your CI and prove it."
CI: "No, I can't hear."
Me: "Oh, you can't hear? Wouldn't that make you deaf?"
CI: "Oh, shut up. You don't know. Bye." *walks off*
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A :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh geez who was THIS person that you met that said this. I have NOT met ONE person who had a CI that said that. and I know QUITE a few..
 
VamPyroX said:
You mentioned three different things... medicine, machine, and philosophy.

Medicine is something people take to fix something temporary or permanent. If I have a cough and take cough medicine, I get better. No, I wasn't cured because I can still get a cough later. If it was an actual cure, I would never get a cough the way I did before. CI isn't medicine. It's a machine. People take medicine for CI to help fight the infection, but it has nothing to do with the CI itself or the deafness.

Machine is something based on technology and/or electronics. CI is something that's put in your head. There is an external source of power and communication that relays the sounds from the outside world. It's not medicine because it isn't taken internally.

Philosophy is different. KKK is not medicine or machine. KKK is a group of people whose philosophy is that colors don't belong in the world of white. That's their philosophy and belief.
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Okay what is a hearing aid?? Hearing aid - external machine. CI - internal machine - same darn thing!
 
IceCream said:
I think it's best that if next time someone identify themselves as hearing, ask them why. Maybe you'll find out something more about their meaning rather than assume they are lying about it. Maybe they feel they hear good enough, so they personally want to call themselves hearing. I feel it's their personal choice. I'd like to hear from a CI person who feels hearing why they prefer to label themselves hearing.
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Right but I would call hypothetically if CI users consider themselves as hearing.

Remember many hearing people assume that a CI person is hearing, and if they don't respond the way they expect a hearing person should, they will assume it's not working. I always tell them that it's not perfect, but my hearing is better. I don't think hearing people will know the whole truth.
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I would say, not "many" but "some" because "some" is less than "many". I know many hearing parents who have deaf children. They accept the fact that they are really deaf and learn about Deaf Culture which good. Some hearing parents refused to accept that their child is deaf and think CI is as hearing person like them.

I was surprised after read Butterflygirl´s post saying that her ex-friend consider herself as hearing person after CI surgery because she can´t accept that she is really DEAF. I understand how Butterflygirl feel because she know her long before CI surgery. I would feel the same as Butterflygirl... I would get puzzle if my friend turn into different person after CI surgery.

I was told before that CI simply doesn't work and gives people infections until I found the truth by researching myself. I didn't go back to her and tell her that she lied to me. I am just glad I found out the truth myself. That person did not like CI's. When I told her I got it later when I saw her again, she said, " I am happy for you." She did not talk to me much, and she didn't really seem happy for me.
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About infection is true because I heard about this myself - mengtius. No reason to label anyone as liar because they beleive different than you. I´m glad that you didn´t go back to tell her that she is liar. You will call hypothetically yourself if you do. It´s okay to search yourself to find out cons and pros but it doesn´t mean that anyone are liar because they think differently than you. To me, I rather to listen CI users´s side because it´s them who have experience.

Well, I don't know why she takes it personally that I got one and didn't remain deaf and join the Deaf Culture.
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It look like that you do not accept deaf don´t you? like what Vampy said is true.

See a lot of misconceptions about CI that really makes the Deaf Culture feel hurt. I don't see the real hurt to the Deaf Culture. I see a lot of misconceptions. Once the Deaf Culture put their swords up when the CI came out, a bunch of lies were spread about the CI. I think that's why the CI people feel annoyed plus I feel many in the Deaf Culture don't want to hear of the CI and want people to be deaf, period. Which I find sick...
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No true, I see different as you. It annoy me mostly is CI users consider themselves as hearing person. What they doing is hypothetically because they have been deaf for long time and must have known that deaf will NEVER cure... CI or HA only help you to hear, that´s all.

I beleive people will respect you only if you accept what you are. They would lost their respect if you act differently after CI surgery.



 
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