CI 'war' over peace declared

Boult said:
I guess you didn't get it after I try to type a little clearer for passivit?
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Sorry Boult, I'm not as smart as you are, and I tried :dunno:
 
^Angel^ said:
Sorry Boult, I'm not as smart as you are, and I tried :dunno:
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Oh sorry. I don't think I am smarter than you are.. I think we are at same smart level ;) I wish I can explain to you in person but online isn't easy to get across eh. :)
 
deafdyke said:
.......BSL is UNRELATED to ASL...it's closer to French Sign language!
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No, ASl is more related to french sign language than BSL. ASL evolved from french sign and local sign in the USA when Laurant Clerc came to the USA.
Laurent Clerc (born Louis Laurent Marie Clerc) was born December 26, 1785 in La Balme les Grottes, department of Isere, France, a village on the northeastern edge of Lyon. Clerc has been called "The Apostle of the Deaf in America" and "The Father of the Deaf" by generations of American deaf people. With Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, he co-founded the first school for the deaf in North America, the Hartford Asylum for the Education and Instruction of the Deaf and Dumb on April 15, 1817 in the old Bennet's City Hotel, Hartford, Connecticut. The school was subsequently re-named The American School for the Deaf and in 1821 moved to its present site. The school remains the oldest existing school for the deaf in the United States.
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Boult said:
I am sorry I have to shoot that down... really, ASL is derived from FSL and MVSL and MVSL is derived from old form of BSL and native signs. see my post on: http://alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=27292&page=2&pp=28
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No problem being shot down. I was doing it from memory and recalled that I read that an American signer would be able to understand more from a French signer than from a UK signer....
Will have a look at your link.
Thanks :cheers:

I know that MV-sign originated from immigrants from an UK area but there was a lot of time between the establishment on MV and establishment of the school for the deaf. Since there was no school, the signing would have changed to local sign. But of course with English roots.
Then, Laurent Clerc would have implemented the French system of signing with it's own grammar.

Could it be that even though signs are UK-based, the grammar would be french?

Don't know, just a thought.
 
Cloggy said:
No problem being shot down. I was doing it from memory and recalled that I read that an American signer would be able to understand more from a French signer than from a UK signer....
Will have a look at your link.
Thanks :cheers:

I know that MV-sign originated from immigrants from an UK area but there was a lot of time between the establishment on MV and establishment of the school for the deaf. Since there was no school, the signing would have changed to local sign. But of course with English roots.
Then, Laurent Clerc would have implemented the French system of signing with it's own grammar.

Could it be that even though signs are UK-based, the grammar would be french?

Don't know, just a thought.
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go to: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1197863 and read the "Early Deafness" and "Sign Language" part and while you are reading, when you see the word "MVSL" click that for details.. maybe that helps.
 
Cloggy said:
Excellent, will do.

Just ordered it at Amazon.com. (£43,= on co.uk, $10,= on com). Hope it's in good condition.

Thanks for the info.
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which are you talking about? "Deaf Heritage" ? If so, the link I provided only went to amazon.com which showed the cover art but the page was for "Deaf Heritage: Student Text and Workbook" which you don't want that. you want the actual book which is thick book, "Deaf Heritage: A Narrative History of Deaf America" 483 pages. Paperback. Sorry for confusion :D
 
Boult said:
which are you talking about? "Deaf Heritage" ? If so, the link I provided only went to amazon.com which showed the cover art but the page was for "Deaf Heritage: Student Text and Workbook" which you don't want that. you want the actual book which is thick book, "Deaf Heritage: A Narrative History of Deaf America" 483 pages. Paperback. Sorry for confusion :D
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Back to amazon..... have to go. :)
 
whoops......*blush* that's what I meant. that ASL is more related to FSL!....I'm a BAD writer/editor....
Boult, I don't think that MVSL is *true* BSL. There are probaly some cognates, but it's more dialectical, and probaly features signs that are older....More like they would be more like Old English, rather then modren day English, if that makes any sense.
 
Passivist said:
Is it not time the USA joined with the rest of the World and stopped these Anti-CI and Anti-hearing aid things ? It's hardly showing America as a place where choice is really accepted, and inclusion a norm is it ?
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Who cares if United Kingdom is farest more accepting people with Cochlear Implants than United States. United Kingdom have their completely different way to English, like any language, it has its own grammar. Likelywise United States have their own language and it's own grammar, which that would be English. Also, United Kingdom have their own signs? British Sign Language (BSL) while United States have their own sign language of American Sign Language. Cochlear implants always have it's own hot topic doesn't make anyone anti-Ci nor anti-hearing aids. That's life. Nobody says life was gotta be easy where everyone have to be fully accepted.
 
THANK YOU Cheri!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Besides, the debate here is DIFFERENT. In the UK, it's a BUGGER to get implanted.....here it's relatively easy to get implanted....I mean there are folks who have gone to get evaluated for CI, and gotten approved by using low power ITE aids!
That's b/c we have a purely for profit health system, whereas British folks have universal health care!
 
deafdyke said:
whoops......*blush* that's what I meant. that ASL is more related to FSL!....I'm a BAD writer/editor....
Boult, I don't think that MVSL is *true* BSL. There are probaly some cognates, but it's more dialectical, and probaly features signs that are older....More like they would be more like Old English, rather then modren day English, if that makes any sense.
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I didn't say "true" read them again.. *rme*
 
Boult said:
go to: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1197863 and read the "Early Deafness" and "Sign Language" part and while you are reading, when you see the word "MVSL" click that for details.. maybe that helps.
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Excellent info. Good website to look for any kind of info....

As I said,
I know that MV-sign originated from immigrants from an UK area but there was a lot of time between the establishment on MV and establishment of the school for the deaf. Since there was no school, the signing would have changed to local sign. But of course with English roots.
Then, Laurent Clerc would have implemented the French system of signing with it's own grammar.
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the link agrees with me - or better said, I agree with the info on the link: (What's not to agree... :)

While MVSL was similar in many respects to American Sign Language, it is more likely that ASL first borrowed signs and structure from MVSL than the other way around. Today's ASL is partly based on French Sign Language, which was introduced here by Laurent Clerc in 1817, but some of it was creolized with existing sign languages - including, most likely, MVSL. But the island's indigenous sign language probably took on more characteristics of ASL after its children began to attend the American School for the Deaf around 1850; when they returned home to Martha's Vineyard they introduced more of ASL to the isolated island's deaf population. This new Martha's Vineyard Sign Language was used in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries until the number of deaf residents dwindled to virtually none.
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Boult...
Some more info from Everything: (Searched on Laurent Clerc)
Laurent Clerc
(person) by etoile (1.5 mon) (print) ? 1 C! Sat Sep 29 2001 at 23:14:59


On December 26, 1785, Louis Laurent Marie Clerc was born in the southeastern French town of La Balme-les-Grottes. For generations, his family had been in the service of the king, and his father was the royal civil attorney, justice of the peace, and mayor of the village. At about one year old, Clerc fell out of his high chair and landed in the kitchen fireplace. He received a severe burn on his face, resulting in a scar that eventually became his name sign. Shortly after the accident, it was discovered that he was deaf and his parents tried a wide variety of methods to restore his hearing - all to no avail. Instead he stayed at home for most of his childhood, exploring the village rather than attending school. When Clerc was twelve years old, his uncle-godfather enrolled him in the world's first public school for the deaf, the Institut National des Jeune Sourds-Muets (National Institute for Young Deaf-Mutes). When an assistant teacher was having difficulty teaching Clerc to speak, he struck the boy under the chin, causing Clerc to bite his tongue so badly that he swore to himself he would never learn to speak. This incident is believed to have eventually influenced the entire school of thought that dictates sign language is the preferred way for deaf children to learn and communicate. In 1809, he became a teacher at his own school.
While lecturing in London on manual communication, Clerc was introduced to Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, who had traveled to Europe from the U.S. to learn how to teach the deaf child of a neighbor. They returned Paris, where Clerc had become the chief assistant to Abbé Sicard, the school's director. Still Clerc found time to give Gallaudet private lessons, and the latter was so impressed that he invited Clerc back to America to help establish a school for the deaf. Over the objections of Sicard and his own mother, Clerc eventually decided to cross the ocean at the age of 28. During the fifty-two day trip, he continued to teach Gallaudet, who in return helped Clerc improve his English skills. After reaching the United States, they gave lectures in a number of cities and talked with deaf children and their parents, raising a total of $12,000. In the first-ever appropriation for the education of the disabled, the Connecticut General Assembly voted to give another $5,000 to the cause.

In April 1817, Clerc became the head teacher at what is now the American School for the Deaf. In January 1818, he traveled to Washington, D.C., became the first deaf person to address Congress, and was well-received. Later that year, the school was completely filled with students ranging from age 10 to over 50, and a year after that Clerc married Eliza Crocker Boardman, one of his first students, with whom he fathered six children.

Clerc's influence on deaf education in the United States was dramatic. He taught administrators and teachers as well as students, who went on to establish schools for the deaf around the country. He also made a major impact on the language - Clerc taught using French signs, but his students blended those with their own, eventually forming American Sign Language. Today, two-thirds of ASL signs have French origins, and while hearing Americans and Brits can communicate easily, there is a much greater language barrier between deaf people using ASL and those using British Sign Language.
Clerc taught for 50 years, finally retiring in 1858. When he was 79 years old, he visited Washington again as the guest of honor at the inauguration of what is now Gallaudet University. He died on July 18, 1869, at the age of eighty-four. He and his wife are buried in a Hartford, CT cemetery. In 1992, a deaf man named Alan Barliowek visited Clerc's gravesite and was distressed by the poor condition of the headstones. The national campaign he started drew great support, and in 1998 Laurent and Elizabeth Clerc received new headstones.

Source: http://clerccenter.gallaudet.edu/Literacy/MSSDLRC/clerc/index.html
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Cloggy said:
Boult...
Some more info from Everything: (Searched on Laurent Clerc)
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Yeah... but when I was in England during my Thanksgiving break from work in Netherlands. I could get along with their BSL because I had to look at their expression and lip read them too. I try to remember their ABC you know but they are more interested in ASL than BSL. so one night at deaf club in Reading, they all communicated with me in ASL.

anyway see this: http://alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=27374 the part in "The French Connection"

If Galldaudet didn't know about French system, he may have stayed in England for 3 yrs to learn the Briarwood system which is a oral method but loose instead of pure. It would be extremely different today had Gallaudet came back with Braidrwood method. (http://www.asd-1817.org/history/history-asd.html and 2.4 in http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/DeafStudiesTeaching/deafed/Session 2A.htm)
 
Boult said:
Yeah... but when I was in England during my Thanksgiving break from work in Netherlands. I could get along with their BSL because I had to look at their expression and lip read them too. I try to remember their ABC you know but they are more interested in ASL than BSL. so one night at deaf club in Reading, they all communicated with me in ASL.

anyway see this: http://alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=27374 the part in "The French Connection"

If Galldaudet didn't know about French system, he may have stayed in England for 3 yrs to learn the Briarwood system which is a oral method but loose instead of pure. It would be extremely different today had Gallaudet came back with Braidrwood method. (http://www.asd-1817.org/history/history-asd.html and 2.4 in http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/DeafStudiesTeaching/deafed/Session 2A.htm)
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You lost me.. I'll have a look at the links.
 
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