Some suggestions for Law Enforcement. I could use your help.

Greetings! My name is Christian and I'm from MN. Im getting close to finishing my degree in law enforcement from Minnesota State and work part time as a sheriff's deputy. This semester I took my first ASL class and instantly fell in love with it. I was able to take what I learned my first week and transfer it over to my job. I'm writing a paper for my ASL 1 class and want to focus on Law Enforcement and the Deaf community. I would appreciate any feedback that you could give me on your aspects on law enforcement. Please provide any positive/negative contacts that you've had, things you would want to see changed or any tips that you can give me that I can carry over into my job when Im working with someone in the deaf community. Again, I appreciate any feedback you can give!
-Berg

There are some or may be some issues that members here in AD have experienced, whether good or bad, however, being able to move forward with reasonable and worthy solutions is the key to assure that both sides/parties, (the Police and the Deaf community) can strive for rather than the bickering or belittling about what is right or what is best in any given situation. Bearing that in mind...the overall quality of life for all can greatly benefit with minimal complications.





~RR

Hi, Christian!

I thought about this thread all night. I even called my parents and talked to them about it.

I have never been in trouble with the police. I don't think I have ever broken the laws. But I am a bit scared of the police. When I was a kid, my brother and I watched a TV show that showed someone being shot in the back by a policeman. I wasn't paying attention and it didn't have CC, so I don't know 100% why the person was shot. But my brother said that the policeman told him to stop and he didn't so he was shot. My brother said that you have to stop if a policeman tells you to or they can use force like shooting you. I asked my brother what happens if you don't hear the policeman tell you to stop. He said they won't know you can't hear them and they may think you trying to get away and could shoot you. I didn't talk to my parents about this then, but it worried me. I wasn't sure if my brother was being mean and teasing me or was right. Later when I talked to my parents they said this is not true, that the police would not shoot a deaf person because the person can't hear them to stop. But how would a policeman know you can't hear and would stop if you knew you should? I have asked other hearing people about this, and many said the police would not shoot a deaf person for not stopping. But they also can't say how a police would know you can't hear them and are not trying to get away.

I don't know. I wasn't going to write this because it sounds silly maybe. I worry about the police when I don't break the laws! But how would a policeman know if he said behind my back to stop that I didn't hear him?

I hope this doesn't offend you.



Does this seem stupid to others? Or do you worry about this too? It seems stupid written out....

That makes perfect sense and is a very good question to ask. I have never thought of that that is a very good possible thing to happen.

Kaitin said:

Hi, Christian!

I thought about this thread all night. I even called my parents and talked to them about it.

I have never been in trouble with the police. I don't think I have ever broken the laws. But I am a bit scared of the police. When I was a kid, my brother and I watched a TV show that showed someone being shot in the back by a policeman. I wasn't paying attention and it didn't have CC, so I don't know 100% why the person was shot. But my brother said that the policeman told him to stop and he didn't so he was shot. My brother said that you have to stop if a policeman tells you to or they can use force like shooting you. I asked my brother what happens if you don't hear the policeman tell you to stop. He said they won't know you can't hear them and they may think you trying to get away and could shoot you. I didn't talk to my parents about this then, but it worried me. I wasn't sure if my brother was being mean and teasing me or was right. Later when I talked to my parents they said this is not true, that the police would not shoot a deaf person because the person can't hear them to stop. But how would a policeman know you can't hear and would stop if you knew you should? I have asked other hearing people about this, and many said the police would not shoot a deaf person for not stopping. But they also can't say how a police would know you can't hear them and are not trying to get away.

I don't know. I wasn't going to write this because it sounds silly maybe. I worry about the police when I don't break the laws! But how would a policeman know if he said behind my back to stop that I didn't hear him?

I hope this doesn't offend you.



Does this seem stupid to others? Or do you worry about this too? It seems stupid written out....

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No, that's perfectly okay. Everyone can ask questions, lol.
What you said about the suspect running away from a cop, that's evading arrest. Unfortunately for this situation, the police had to apply a deadly force to prevent the suspect from running away. It probably happened in the 1990's. Today, although the guns are in use, but the police use tasers to subdue the running suspects with volts - that's not deadly force compared to a gun with a bullet inside.

Same situation, but with the deaf suspect, would be much difficult. The police department probably know almost nothing about approaching deaf people the right way. If the police felt that this suspect, who is deaf, did not hear and kept walking away, the police had to shoot a taser at him.

The law enforcement has a long way to go in learning about deafness and deaf people's needs when it comes with the law enforcement. I am still not too happy and thrilled after hearing that a deaf man (I knew him before) in Minnesota was thrown in jail (without interpreters requested) for 4 days after being beaten up by a cop after he requested for some paper and pen. It was a traffic mistake, c'mon, don't get so physical on him, some wannabe cops. Like he robbed a convenience shop. :roll:

They really need to learn one culture or another outside them.

J and Secret! My hearing roommates think I am paranoid. But they don't have to worry about this.

J'explique said:

The law enforcement has a long way to go in learning about deafness and deaf people's needs when it comes with the law enforcement. I am still not too happy and thrilled after hearing that a deaf man (I knew him before) in Minnesota was thrown in jail (without interpreters requested) for 4 days after being beaten up by a cop after he requested for some paper and pen. It was a traffic mistake, c'mon, don't get so physical on him, some wannabe cops. Like he robbed a convenience shop. :roll:

They really need to learn one culture or another outside them.

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J, the policeman beat up the man because he asked for a pen and paper? Or was he beat up because of the traffic mistake? Or something else? I hope it was not because he asked for a pen and paper! Scary! What should you do? If the policeman doesn't know ASL, you have to ask for a paper and pen. I usually have a paper and pen in my car, but my parent say you shouldn't reach for anything if you are stopped by a policeman in you car or he'll think you have a gun. You have to ask first. But if he was beat up because he asked.....

Kaitin said:

J and Secret! My hearing roommates think I am paranoid. But they don't have to worry about this.



J, the policeman beat up the man because he asked for a pen and paper? Or was he beat up because of the traffic mistake? Or something else? I hope it was not because he asked for a pen and paper! Scary! What should you do? If the policeman doesn't know ASL, you have to ask for a paper and pen. I usually have a paper and pen in my car, but my parent say you shouldn't reach for anything if you are stopped by a policeman in you car or he'll think you have a gun. You have to ask first. But if he was beat up because he asked.....

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Both.

The cop pulled him over for running over a red light. The deaf driver politely asked the police officer for paper and pen, mainly to communicate. The cop refused and then you know, all hell broke loose.

Kaitin, thank you for your honest response. This is exactly the kind of input that I was looking for. Your worry isnt silly at all. J was somewhat on topic with evading arrest. If a suspect flees from a peace officer it is considered a felony in the State of Minnesota. I feel that law enforcement needs to be taught/given more incite to the deaf community. To help you a little on putting your fear to bed...before I began taking ASL courses, my big thing with communication was primarily non-verbal. I understood that not everyone knew english. So, When talking to someone I was always concerned with what my body language was telling them. This included:
1. Taking off my sunglasses so they could see my eyes (lets them know Im ready for some one on one)...also helps people feel less paranoid and allows them to calm down.
2. Body position. If I felt like someone was "stand-offish", I would angle my body. If someone was concerned, scared, or hurt I would stand directly infront of them and maintain my eye contact.
*After taking ASL I've become aware that more people are either hard of hearing or deaf. When I talk, I watch people's eyes. Whether or not they are trying to read my lips. Your parents are giving you good advice when they told you not to reach in your glove box. The way I would feel most comfortable in a traffic stop situation would be if the person tried to sign that they were hard of hearing or deaf.

This is some great feedback! If anyone out there is affraid to post on this topic, please...dont be. With your feedback we can adequitly equip law enforcement to better understand the deaf community and what types of fears they may have.

Bergc said:

Kaitin, thank you for your honest response. This is exactly the kind of input that I was looking for. Your worry isnt silly at all. J was somewhat on topic with evading arrest. If a suspect flees from a peace officer it is considered a felony in the State of Minnesota. I feel that law enforcement needs to be taught/given more incite to the deaf community. To help you a little on putting your fear to bed...before I began taking ASL courses, my big thing with communication was primarily non-verbal. I understood that not everyone knew english. So, When talking to someone I was always concerned with what my body language was telling them. This included:
1. Taking off my sunglasses so they could see my eyes (lets them know Im ready for some one on one)...also helps people feel less paranoid and allows them to calm down.
2. Body position. If I felt like someone was "stand-offish", I would angle my body. If someone was concerned, scared, or hurt I would stand directly infront of them and maintain my eye contact.
*After taking ASL I've become aware that more people are either hard of hearing or deaf. When I talk, I watch people's eyes. Whether or not they are trying to read my lips. Your parents are giving you good advice when they told you not to reach in your glove box. The way I would feel most comfortable in a traffic stop situation would be if the person tried to sign that they were hard of hearing or deaf.

This is some great feedback! If anyone out there is affraid to post on this topic, please...dont be. With your feedback we can adequitly equip law enforcement to better understand the deaf community and what types of fears they may have.

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Hi, Christian. Thank you for your reply. I think taking off the sun glasses and maintianing eye contact are good ideas. The policemen on TV often wear sun glasses. I think that makes it hard to know how they are. And it looks intimidating. I hope this isn't offensive, but do they wear them to intimidate?

Christian, the man on TV that I saw shot in the back. I know this was a TV show, but would a policeman do this? What if a he said "stop" and you didn't hear him. What would he do? Even if he yelled I maybe would not hear him and so I would not stop. What would happen if he didn't know I am HoH/deaf?

I am very glad you are answering these questions. I have asked them of hearing people before, but they don't take the questions seriously maybe. My male (hearing) roommate says that a policeman would not give me a speeding ticket even because "they let go pretty girls". This is not helpful and is not true I think. I don't think the policeman gives you a ticket because of your looks! Other people say that I don't look scary to policemen because I am small and a women, but I think policemen are not scared of many people. It is not helpful. And it is not helpful to be told by people who are hearing that it is not a real worry.

I hope this isn't offensive to a policeman. Thank you!

J'explique said:

Both.

The cop pulled him over for running over a red light. The deaf driver politely asked the police officer for paper and pen, mainly to communicate. The cop refused and then you know, all hell broke loose.

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Why did the driver need to ask the police officer for a pen and paper? Why didn't the Deaf driver keep one handy for such situations?

Reba said:

Why did the driver need to ask the police officer for a pen and paper? Why didn't the Deaf driver keep one handy for such situations?

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This was clearly an unexpected situation.

Bergc said:

Kaitin, thank you for your honest response. This is exactly the kind of input that I was looking for. Your worry isnt silly at all. J was somewhat on topic with evading arrest. If a suspect flees from a peace officer it is considered a felony in the State of Minnesota. I feel that law enforcement needs to be taught/given more incite to the deaf community. To help you a little on putting your fear to bed...before I began taking ASL courses, my big thing with communication was primarily non-verbal. I understood that not everyone knew english. So, When talking to someone I was always concerned with what my body language was telling them. This included:
1. Taking off my sunglasses so they could see my eyes (lets them know Im ready for some one on one)...also helps people feel less paranoid and allows them to calm down.
2. Body position. If I felt like someone was "stand-offish", I would angle my body. If someone was concerned, scared, or hurt I would stand directly infront of them and maintain my eye contact.
*After taking ASL I've become aware that more people are either hard of hearing or deaf. When I talk, I watch people's eyes. Whether or not they are trying to read my lips. Your parents are giving you good advice when they told you not to reach in your glove box. The way I would feel most comfortable in a traffic stop situation would be if the person tried to sign that they were hard of hearing or deaf.

This is some great feedback! If anyone out there is affraid to post on this topic, please...dont be. With your feedback we can adequitly equip law enforcement to better understand the deaf community and what types of fears they may have.

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Christian, is that true if anyone witnesses an accident or caught someone doing crime - they had to go and help right away if you're in Minnesota?

J'explique said:

This was clearly unexpected situation.

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What I mean is, Deaf people experience the need for note writing with Hearies very often. Why not be prepared?

I've read many posts here at AD about cashiers who won't provide pens and paper at stores and restaurants, receptionists who won't provide pens and paper, etc. OK, take the hint. Hearing people might not provide you with pens and paper, so you might need to carry those things with you when you go out. Big deal. A very minor inconvenience that might prevent a serious misunderstanding.

Reba said:

What I mean is, Deaf people experience the need for note writing with Hearies very often. Why not be prepared?

I've read many posts here at AD about cashiers who won't provide pens and paper at stores and restaurants, receptionists who won't provide pens and paper, etc. OK, take the hint. Hearing people might not provide you with pens and paper, so you might need to carry those things with you when you go out. Big deal. A very minor inconvenience that might prevent a serious misunderstanding.

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What the hell? Deaf people spent their whole lives trying to suit better into hearing world. Why don't hearing people do the same for us in return?

Everytime I went out for lunch or whatever, I had no problem with anyone who was willingful enough to give me a pencil and paper. I clearly gestured to them that I CANNOT hear and speak. Why would I try to speak or hear, anyway? Now, am I supposed to go place with a paper and pen with me the entire time?

Like it or not, many people with various disabilities went to many places everyday - those places should accommodate their needs when it comes to communicating.

J'explique said:

What the hell? Deaf people spent their whole lives trying to suit better into hearing world. Why don't hearing people do the same for us in return?

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In a perfect world, that would be wonderful. Sadly, we have to deal with a real world in which we live.

Now, am I supposed to go place with a paper and pen with me the entire time?

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What's more important to you? Being clearly understood, or not being weighed down with a little pad and pen.

You know, it's inconvenient to wear glasses and HA's, carry a cell phone or pager, use a cane or walker, be hooked up to 24/7 oxygen, etc. Life isn't convenient.

Like it or not, many people with various disabilities went to many places everyday - those places should accommodate their needs when it comes to communicating.

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That would be great.

That is sad that the officer did not have enough common sense of pacience for that matter to help someone communicate. I now carry a notepad in my back pocket and pens just in case an emergency like this should arise. Like I had said before...please, do not reach inside your glove box. Officers are trained that this may be a source of danger. The best to store a pad and pen would be on your sun visor. Make sure they are securley fastened so they do not fall while you are driving. This can be done with a simple velcro strap that can be purchased at a craft store.

Kaitin, I was busy before and didnt have much time to elaborate on my response for you. As we discussed, in the state of MN (and pretty much the rest of the states), fleeing from a peace officer is a felony. To help ease your mind a little more, an officer would not shoot a fleeing person in the back. It would be a different story if you had a knife/gun in your hand and were fleeing from an officer. This would paint a completley different picture. So, you have no reason to worry about being shot whilst minding your own business. So to put this all in context...if an officer did not know that someone was deaf or HoH, and ordered them to stop and they still went on running...it would be standard protocol for them to holster their weapon and try to pursue the subject. Departments have VERY strict policies regarding the use of deadly force. Hope this helps.

J, you pose an excellent question. Many people get this notion from the final episode of Seinfeld where instead of coming to the aid of a victim being "mugged" on the street of a nice little town, they all stand back, videotape it, and laugh to themselves. In the episode, they were charged with breaking the Good Samaritan Law. That is not the case. The Good Samaritan Law are laws enacted by states that protect health profesionals (doctors, nurses, EMT's) from being sued when rendering aide under emergency circumstances. Back to subject tho...if you witness a motor vehicle accident it is common sense/curtosey to call 911 and give the location and details of the "crash". Under MN state law (169.09 sub 3 sub a) basically states that if you are involved in a motor vehicle accident you must render reasonable assistance to any individual injured in the accident. Failure to comply with the following law may result in the revocation of your drivers license.

*Another question: What means are the deaf community provided with in terms of emergency communication? Cell phone/Blackberry usage?

Reba said:

What's more important to you? Being clearly understood, or not being weighed down with a little pad and pen.

You know, it's inconvenient to wear glasses and HA's, carry a cell phone or pager, use a cane or walker, be hooked up to 24/7 oxygen, etc. Life isn't convenient.

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You get your point, but I'm positively sure many or most deaf people don't bring their own pencil and paper every time they go out. Every time I went out with friends, I don't ever seen them bringing it. Is it against the law? No. I also have hearing friends. Whenever they set up to meet with me, they always brought their own paper and pencil. I never asked them to, they understand the situation. That's respect.

Nobody asked us to have it the whole time. Heck, nobody even asked me to carry them with me.

Bergc said:

J, you pose an excellent question. Many people get this notion from the final episode of Seinfeld where instead of coming to the aid of a victim being "mugged" on the street of a nice little town, they all stand back, videotape it, and laugh to themselves. In the episode, they were charged with breaking the Good Samaritan Law. That is not the case. The Good Samaritan Law are laws enacted by states that protect health profesionals (doctors, nurses, EMT's) from being sued when rendering aide under emergency circumstances. Back to subject tho...if you witness a motor vehicle accident it is common sense/curtosey to call 911 and give the location and details of the "crash". Under MN state law (169.09 sub 3 sub a) basically states that if you are involved in a motor vehicle accident you must render reasonable assistance to any individual injured in the accident. Failure to comply with the following law may result in the revocation of your drivers license.

*Another question: What means are the deaf community provided with in terms of emergency communication? Cell phone/Blackberry usage?

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Good Samaritan Law! I completely left my brain behind when I was asking that question. As you are speaking about the law in the state of Minnesota, I am originally from Minnesota. Twin Cities area to be specific. I remember there is a law required for everyone to aid or help the victims after the accidents or crimes. So, let's suppose that someone failed to accompany the needs of aiding the victim (Good Samaritan Law) at the same place and on same time an accident or crime occurred - A possible felony? How serious do their punishments they receive if they failed to obey the Good Samaritan Law?

Hi, Christian. Thank you for the answer. "Holster their weapon" means to put it back into the holster right? I wasn't sure of the definition and some dictionaries don't describe putting it back in the holster. Why would the weapon be out? What are the rules for a policeman to take his gun out? to shoot it? What about the Taser?

Sorry that your answer is causing more questions! But I have always wondered.

To answer you: I use a Blackberry. It has a phone, texting, and IM. I never have called for help on it, but I would use it if I had to and could. Without my HAs, I wouldn't hear well enough for the phone. With my HAs, I probably still couldn't use it as a regular phone without a relay - I don't know if the Blackberry is loud enough and I have problems with telephone noise too close to my HAs. With a relay it wouldn't be a problem.

J: I have a keychain that also has a pen and little light. It is nice for when I go running - I know I have a pen and don't worry about carrying a pad of paper. It is kind of similar to this: Keychain pen.

Im glad that you came to this board to learn! My best girlfriend's husband was a cop but now a detective. She is deaf and he is not. He took up ASL and Deaf Culture to gain understanding.

Learning Deaf Culture will really help you prepare more than just learning how to signs because some of us have different norms.

I have been pulled over a few times and I always get panicky because I am not sure what the police officer is saying - is he saying Dont move or is he saying Get out of the car or what? I am afraid to make a move in case he will misunderstand my actions. Do I open the door or roll down the windows?

Also a cop needs to understand that many of Deaf people do not have full understanding of laws so it is helpful to pull in a Deaf interpreter who can assist with breaking down what the sign language interpeter is saying. My girlfriend sometimes acts as a Deaf interpreter when her husband's department calls her to come in to help make that deaf person understand legal rights, etc.