We need to change?

shel90

shel90

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Lately, there has been a lot of arguments even some bashing by AD members, both Deaf and Hearing, in the threads about CIs against the parents. I know many of us dont agree with implanting children but the reality it is that they are not our children and we really have no say in the parents' decisions so why continue arguing about that? The parents will still continue to implant children whether we like it or not. I have been doing a lot of thinking and Cole's mom brought up a very good point...she said something like "We are not harming our children and many of us want to learn about Deaf culture and sign language but afraid to due to the hostility towards parents who have made the decision to implant children." I know it is not an exact quote but that was the message she conveyed. That is a good reason for many of us to change our attitudes to the parents..if they implant their children but still want to expose their children to deaf culture and sign language, then we shouldnt be hostile to them.

I have seen it in my personal life on how some people in the Deaf community are so quick to judge anyone who gets an implant or implant their chidlren. I used to be like that myself and I realize it is not doing anyone any good.

I think we all need to let the parents be about implanting their children and be more supportive in welcoming them to the Deaf community. We can start out by not saying anything about their decisions to implant their children UNLESS they ask. I think it is very important if we want them to expose their children to deaf people and sign language otherwise we would probably scare many of them away and we will be the ones hurting their children by acting that way to them.

I can understand that if some parents have the oral attitude and if they say their deaf child doesnt need the deaf community nor doesnt need sign language, that can be hurtful to us.

I know I have been harsh sometimes but that doesnt mean I want to ban all parents of CI children from this forum or from the deaf community. I will try my best not to be harsh and be as informative and encouraging as I can be.


To the parents..
Understand this..that most people in the deaf community value sign language and Deaf culture and each other even though not all of us are friends so if anyone implies that we are inferiror or devalues what we value, expect people to react strongly.

Anyways, what do u think? Do u think we need to change this hostile attitude to anyone who wants to learn about Deaf culture and sign language?
 
:gpost: It's up to the parents to decide and it's really, really, really none of our business. Later, when the child is old enough and they want it removed-then so be it. I mean, really, who the heck are we to criticize others for making what they believe is the right descision? Lose the hostile attitude-it doesn't do anyone any good, hearing or deaf. Why do you think I rarely visit this site? Remember, opinions are like a-holes, everyone has them, and when you get right down to it, it's just an opinion. Later.....
 
Great post, Shel90. Very pragmatic. These children are still deaf and have a need to seek out others in their position and also having a second language reduces technological reliance.

It doesn't mean that you have to change your own personal viewpoint about whether it's right or wrong to implant a child. However, it means that after stating your view, you seek to educate and inform in a positive manner and offer suggestions for signing classes, how to improve self esteem etc.

I was looking at a UK parents of deaf children website last night and I was impressed by the number of parents of aided children who were keen to learn to sign and who were doing so. They could see the positives of learning to sign in addition to the oral speech therapy that their children were already receiving.
However, getting information and confusion did seem to be a big problem i.e. some specialists say "go for it" whereas others will say "it will delay speech."

In my town there are two pediatric CI programs. One (well respected) is okay with the use of sign together with AVT whereas the other is not. So there is no across the board agreement in that area.
 
I have no problem with that Shel, I also have decide that I would not say any more about implanting children was not a wise move, because I always believe in individual choice, do understand that it's not my child and not my place to say either.

The biggest argument starts off with sign language. It just how some come across saying that sign language is not an important language to start off with, I do find that upsetting about that because sign language always been part of the Deaf, cochlear implant or not, it's still a very much apart of the Deaf. Many in the medical field tell them to contact speech therapists, or oral programs or encourage cochlear implants, but what about sign language? They don't see learning ASL as a need to do thing, they just flat out say don't teach your child sign language or expose them to the Deaf Community.

What's so wrong being part of both worlds, learning both language, all communication methods? I don't see how harm would that do to a child? I don't know what else to say on this topic. I don't think my opinion really matters to anyone anyway. :dunno:
 
Cheri said:
I have no problem with that Shel, I also have decide that I would not say any more about implanting children was not a wise move, because I always believe in individual choice, do understand that it's not my child and not my place to say either.

The biggest argument starts off with sign language. It just how some come across saying that sign language is not an important language to start off with, I do find that upsetting about that because sign language always been part of the Deaf, cochlear implant or not, it's still a very much apart of the Deaf. Many in the medical field tell them to contact speech therapists, or oral programs or encourage cochlear implants, but what about sign language? They don't see learning ASL as a need to do thing, they just flat out say don't teach your child sign language or expose them to the Deaf Community.

What's so wrong being part of both worlds, learning both language, all communication methods? I don't see how harm would that do to a child? I don't know what else to say on this topic. I don't think my opinion really matters to anyone anyway. :dunno:
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Yea, I understand the part about sign language which is why I said about those parents who want to learn sign language and Deaf culture but afraid to get involved due to the attitudes from people about implanting their children. That is who we are scaring off and we dont want that.

If those who say negative stuff about sign language and that they wont expose their children to it or that there is no need for it, then that is a different story.

Your opinion matters at least to me! :)
 
:gpost: R2D2 and Shel90. I think it's not so bad for CI children to be exposed to the Deaf community and sign language but it helps to be friendly towards the parents who implanted them. You don't have to agree with the parents but I think it's bad to drive them out of the Deaf community.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, I understand the part about sign language which is why I said about those parents who want to learn sign language and Deaf culture but afraid to get involved due to the attitudes from people about implanting their children. That is who we are scaring off and we dont want that.
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I do very much understand that, and I too don't want to scare them off either with a type of attitude we shown toward to them. But, I believe it does go both ways, giving respect works both ways. ;)

Thank you very much for this thread Shel, It's much appreciated. It goes make me open my eyes and heart. ;)
 
Exactly Cheri, it does go both ways!! so don't blame us, we're not only ones pushing them away, they're pushing us away too....

beside I did not say I did not agree on the parent's decision, nor did I say anything about going against CI in children, the only thing I did not like was babies being implant, so they can either take my suggestion or ignore it, its up to them...
 
Angel said:
Exactly Cheri, it does go both ways!! so don't blame us, we're not only pushing them away, they're pushing us away too....
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I know hon..that's why I said it is a different story when they start pushing us away or degrading our values. That's why I said they have to expect a strong reaction maybe even harsh comments if they do that. I prefer us (the deaf community) not to be the first ones to push them away..
 
shel90 said:
I know hon..that's why I said it is a different story when they start pushing us away or degrading our values. That's why I said they have to expect a strong reaction maybe even harsh comments if they do that. I prefer us (the deaf community) not to be the first ones to push them away..
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean and I do agree I wouldn't want us to be the first one either....
 
You know what, I don't know any of you, but I feel very reassured in the Deaf community after reading these few posts. I think that this is exactly the message that needs to be conveyed, I am fine that you disagree with our decision, and I respect why, on the flip side, the fact that there won't be hostility should enable me to better hear your side and be open to any changes in perception that I have. I look at it this way, and probably most parents in my shoes will as well. We knew no deaf people before our son, and while admiring sign language from a distance, it always signified a difference that I didn't understand. When parents are immediately offered this hope of having a hearing child, most will jump at the chance. However, you soon realize how technology dependent they are and that they really are still deaf, with a edge on hearing that HA can't give, and it was obvious to me that he will probably need the support of kids and adults who are going through and have had the same experiences as him. He also needs sign, for language base or assistance in less than ideal hearing environments, and for when tech. fails, and it will at some point, even if temporarily.

So, thanks those of you in this discussion for recognizing the side of the parents. I think that the tide is shifting back your way a bit. Most professionals I have talked to support us using sign, even if it isn't their preferred method. And hopefully, if it is positive for our son, they will start to recommend it more.
 
Cole's mom said:
You know what, I don't know any of you, but I feel very reassured in the Deaf community after reading these few posts. I think that this is exactly the message that needs to be conveyed, I am fine that you disagree with our decision, and I respect why, on the flip side, the fact that there won't be hostility should enable me to better hear your side and be open to any changes in perception that I have. I look at it this way, and probably most parents in my shoes will as well. We knew no deaf people before our son, and while admiring sign language from a distance, it always signified a difference that I didn't understand. When parents are immediately offered this hope of having a hearing child, most will jump at the chance. However, you soon realize how technology dependent they are and that they really are still deaf, with a edge on hearing that HA can't give, and it was obvious to me that he will probably need the support of kids and adults who are going through and have had the same experiences as him. He also needs sign, for language base or assistance in less than ideal hearing environments, and for when tech. fails, and it will at some point, even if temporarily.

So, thanks those of you in this discussion for recognizing the side of the parents. I think that the tide is shifting back your way a bit. Most professionals I have talked to support us using sign, even if it isn't their preferred method. And hopefully, if it is positive for our son, they will start to recommend it more.
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:)

FYI, there will always be hostility in the Deaf community but that doesnt mean all of us are like that. So many of us grew up feeling very oppressed and isolated by hearing people especially our parents so there are some deep deep scars..some people will get over their scars and some are unable to. I know few of my deaf friends who grew up oral like me and their experiences were so much worse than mine that it really scarred them so deeply and their anger and hatred towards the hearing world is not funny. It is up to them when they are ready to address them but I dont push them. Many of us dont want to see your and other parents' kids here grow up with those same scars so yea, tempers flare when parents become defensive or dont seem like they are really listening. Nobody really goes out of their way to bash the parents right away as far as I know since I have been a member here. The bashing usually starts when some of the parents make very strong comments against the values that are important to us. That's from what I have seen but maybe I could be wrong.
 
I have no problem to respect parent's decision because it's their child, not ours as long as they expose their child to deaf community and use sign language because they accept the fact that their child is deaf, no matter either they wear CI or HA.

I am only against anyone who deny their CI or HA child is really deaf and tries to expose their "hearing" child into hearing world and want them to be hearing like their parents without use sign language.

I never forget the story about Shelba in Fury and Sound movie... :tears: It look like that she didn't know that she is deaf and living in hearing world.
 
Cole's mom said:
You know what, I don't know any of you, but I feel very reassured in the Deaf community after reading these few posts. I think that this is exactly the message that needs to be conveyed, I am fine that you disagree with our decision, and I respect why, on the flip side, the fact that there won't be hostility should enable me to better hear your side and be open to any changes in perception that I have. I look at it this way, and probably most parents in my shoes will as well. We knew no deaf people before our son, and while admiring sign language from a distance, it always signified a difference that I didn't understand. When parents are immediately offered this hope of having a hearing child, most will jump at the chance. However, you soon realize how technology dependent they are and that they really are still deaf, with a edge on hearing that HA can't give, and it was obvious to me that he will probably need the support of kids and adults who are going through and have had the same experiences as him. He also needs sign, for language base or assistance in less than ideal hearing environments, and for when tech. fails, and it will at some point, even if temporarily.

So, thanks those of you in this discussion for recognizing the side of the parents. I think that the tide is shifting back your way a bit. Most professionals I have talked to support us using sign, even if it isn't their preferred method. And hopefully, if it is positive for our son, they will start to recommend it more.
Click to expand...

What make you decide to put CI on your deaf children?

Are you regard that your child has problem with headache, ear infection, painful, suffer, and withdrawal from the deaf community? Were you feel guilty about this child?

Who was this invest in CI?

How long were you thinking and consult with Prediatric Doctor for CI processing surgery on your deaf children?

Why do not you learn ASL or BSL sign language to communication with your deaf child?

Which you choice drill through on little head with big scar on little ear? Why not you learn sign language instead of your children's surgery on their heads?

Were you ashame to approach of your deaf children to the community?

When your child become teenager or adult, they want to particular deaf community, Will you be upset about their wishes?
 
shel90 said:
Lately, there has been a lot of arguments even some bashing by AD members, both Deaf and Hearing, in the threads about CIs against the parents. I know many of us dont agree with implanting children but the reality it is that they are not our children and we really have no say in the parents' decisions so why continue arguing about that? The parents will still continue to implant children whether we like it or not. I have been doing a lot of thinking and Cole's mom brought up a very good point...she said something like "We are not harming our children and many of us want to learn about Deaf culture and sign language but afraid to due to the hostility towards parents who have made the decision to implant children." I know it is not an exact quote but that was the message she conveyed. That is a good reason for many of us to change our attitudes to the parents..if they implant their children but still want to expose their children to deaf culture and sign language, then we shouldnt be hostile to them.

I have seen it in my personal life on how some people in the Deaf community are so quick to judge anyone who gets an implant or implant their chidlren. I used to be like that myself and I realize it is not doing anyone any good.

I think we all need to let the parents be about implanting their children and be more supportive in welcoming them to the Deaf community. We can start out by not saying anything about their decisions to implant their children UNLESS they ask. I think it is very important if we want them to expose their children to deaf people and sign language otherwise we would probably scare many of them away and we will be the ones hurting their children by acting that way to them.

I can understand that if some parents have the oral attitude and if they say their deaf child doesnt need the deaf community nor doesnt need sign language, that can be hurtful to us.

I know I have been harsh sometimes but that doesnt mean I want to ban all parents of CI children from this forum or from the deaf community. I will try my best not to be harsh and be as informative and encouraging as I can be.


To the parents..
Understand this..that most people in the deaf community value sign language and Deaf culture and each other even though not all of us are friends so if anyone implies that we are inferiror or devalues what we value, expect people to react strongly.

Anyways, what do u think? Do u think we need to change this hostile attitude to anyone who wants to learn about Deaf culture and sign language?
Click to expand...

My perspective to this evidence from Department of Health and Human Services to the deaf children who have Cochlear Implants, they are still struggle to accurately their speech thepist due to difficult catch the words with their Cochlear Implants.

Know what, my sons heard those Deaf teenager kids spoke, their voice sounds like Deaf's voice. Why bother with drilling through those babies's head. Unbelievable, many parents are not acceptable their Deaf healthy babies. *big sigh*
 
Kalista said:
My perspective to this evidence from Department of Health and Human Services to the deaf children who have Cochlear Implants, they are still struggle to accurately their speech thepist due to difficult catch the words with their Cochlear Implants.

Know what, my sons heard those Deaf teenager kids spoke, their voice sounds like Deaf's voice. Why bother with drilling through those babies's head. Unbelievable, many parents are not acceptable their Deaf healthy babies. *big sigh*
Click to expand...

Very true, my sons said the same thing when they heard their voices. We often saw CI children at festivals etc.
 
Kalista said:
My perspective to this evidence from Department of Health and Human Services to the deaf children who have Cochlear Implants, they are still struggle to accurately their speech thepist due to difficult catch the words with their Cochlear Implants.

Know what, my sons heard those Deaf teenager kids spoke, their voice sounds like Deaf's voice. Why bother with drilling through those babies's head. Unbelievable, many parents are not acceptable their Deaf healthy babies. *big sigh*
Click to expand...

We all know that but the parents have the final say. I would rather not drive them and their children away from the deaf community. It is useless to argue the pros and cons of implants cuz the parents will see the pros and decide that the pros are worth it. Nothing we say or do will change their minds anyway so I feel that instead of trying to change their minds, we should be accepting and welcoming so they can be motivated to learn sign language and be involved with the deaf community. By continuing to criticize them for their decisions will just only hurt all of us in the end so it is not worth it anymore..
 
shel90 said:
We all know that but the parents have the final say. I would rather not drive them and their children away from the deaf community. It is useless to argue the pros and cons of implants cuz the parents will see the pros and decide that the pros are worth it. Nothing we say or do will change their minds anyway so I feel that instead of trying to change their minds, we should be accepting and welcoming so they can be motivated to learn sign language and be involved with the deaf community. By continuing to criticize them for their decisions will just only hurt all of us in the end so it is not worth it anymore..
Click to expand...

Very true... I has to agree with you on this.
 
Oh you all think that the goal of speech therapy is to eliminate deaf voice? nah! the goal of speech therapy or AVT is to produce intelligible speech regardless of deaf voice or none... that's all.

So I bet they were intelligible speech when your kids hear those deaf voice?

deaf voices is not important, intelligible speech is important regardless
 
Kalista said:
My perspective to this evidence from Department of Health and Human Services to the deaf children who have Cochlear Implants, they are still struggle to accurately their speech thepist due to difficult catch the words with their Cochlear Implants.

Know what, my sons heard those Deaf teenager kids spoke, their voice sounds like Deaf's voice. Why bother with drilling through those babies's head. Unbelievable, many parents are not acceptable their Deaf healthy babies. *big sigh*
Click to expand...

Please stop with this misleading information. you know better it is not "through those babies' head" It is "through mastoid bone" ! It is not from one side of head to other side of head as your post implied.

The purpose of speech therapy is not; "catch the words" (see underlined above) it is to pronounce intelligibly regardless of deaf voice or not.

It is AVT that teach them to listen and repeat what was said correctly. In other word "catch the words" with CI or HA.

AVT = Audio/Verbal Therapy
 
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